36 episodes
The Modern White Man Ken Lawrence & Paul Johnson
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- Society & Culture
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4.7 • 25 Ratings
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Co-hosts Ken Lawrence and Paul Johnson discuss how to be a Modern White Man who is antiracist, antisexist, and understands his role in creating an equitable society.
Ken and Paul unpack their identity as White men by having honest, open - and sometimes difficult and uncomfortable - conversations about being a White man. Where White men come from, White men’s place in today’s society, and roles White men can play moving forward as allies, leaders, and individuals who care about creating an equitable society where all races and genders thrive.
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com.
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Ep34: Dawn Johnson - the need for inclusive cultures to embrace and elevate authentic selves
Ken and Paul are joined by Dawn Johnson.
Dawn is a mentor, motivator, and life coach. Through her organization, The Dawn Johnson Experience, Dawn provides both life coaching and diversity training. Her work focuses on individual wellness and disrupting long-standing institutional barriers resulting from microaggressions, privilege, and racial inequities.
This episode discusses:
- Dawn's experiences and insights from her over 20 years of working in Corporate America as a Black woman.
- The daily drain of code-switching.
- The importance of sponsoring and championing individuals in the workplace.
- The initial hurdle for White men to show up in this work and embrace discomfort.
- The importance of being "unapologetically White" to be antiracist.
- Finding the humanity in others by entering into, and embracing, different cultures.
Learn more about Dawn's work: www.dawnljohnson.com
Read Ken and Paul's takeaways from the conversation with Dawn: https://themodernwhiteman.com/the-blog
See a clip of the conversation with Dawn on our YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCHiYVNqxYKmHkxvTwquc2KA
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to our newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com -
Ep33: Tsitsi Zawaira - developing a truer identity for a collective past, present, and future
Ken and Paul are joined by Tsitsi Zawaira.
Tsitsi is an advocate, business consultant, and aspiring writer currently working on a book about the concept of Black implosion and authors the Unbowed Spirit Newsletter on Substack. She has worked for organizations both in the United States and Zimbabwe doing work focused on the eradication of gender based violence. Tsitsi, being from Zimbabwe, brings a unique perspective on race and gender in the United States.
This episode discusses:
- The necessity of ambiguity in the process of leaving behind one identity and moving towards a new, truer one.
- Tsitsi's experience immigrating to the United States and having Blackness bestowed upon her.
- The concept of "Black implosion" and why it's important for White people to be aware of it.
- How having one's heritage and ancestry at the forefront of equity work helps connect to a collective past, present, and future.
Learn more about Tsitsi's work on her substack page: https://tinyurl.com/32fw4wma
Read Ken and Paul's takeaways from the conversation with Tsitsi: https://themodernwhiteman.com/the-blog/f/navigating-a-new-truer-identity-with-ambiguity
See a clip of the conversation with Tsitsi on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHiYVNqxYKmHkxvTwquc2KA
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com. -
Ep32: Donte Curtis - activate yourself through consistency, persistence, and hope
Ken and Paul are joined by Donte Curtis.
Donte is the owner of Catch Your Dream Consulting where he inspires and trains individuals and teams nationwide on leadership, racial equity, antiracism, and making practical change. Donte brings his 14 years of facilitation and speaking experience with an expectation of getting you energized, you taking practical action, and finding hope for a better tomorrow.
This episode discusses:
- How exploring culture initially can break down defensiveness and open people up.
- How everyone has the agency to activate themselves wherever they are, and it’s all needed.
- The critical importance of persuasion to make positive change.
- The value of consistency and persistence over time to make practical change.
- The importance of finding hope to focus on what’s possible instead of what’s wrong.
Learn more about Donte’s work: www.catchyourdreamconsulting.com
See a clip of the conversation with Donte on our YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/m27QeN8EzPI
Read Ken and Paul's takeaways from the conversation with Donte: themodernwhiteman.com/the-blog?blog=y
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com. -
Ep31: Jill Nagle - solving problems with real-time conversations
Ken and Paul are joined by multi-published author and the founder of Evolutionary Workplace, Jill Nagle.
Jill believes many more problems than we realize can be solved with real-time conversations. She works with anti-racist leaders and organizations using cognitive, somatic, and strategy-based tools to help them create better conversations, sharper perspectives, and more effective strategies to align their actions with their ideals.
This episode discusses the power of curiosity, disarming questions, and being in-touch with one's own bodily responses and patterns to have more transformational conversations on our antiracist journey. They also explore how creating more equitable societies and workplaces helps all people (including White folks) and how everyone has the power to enact change through leadership.
Learn more about Jill's work: https://www.evolutionaryworkplace.com/
Watch all interviews with guests on TMWM's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHiYVNqxYKmHkxvTwquc2KA
Read Ken and Paul's takeaways from the conversation with Jill: themodernwhiteman.com/the-blog?blog=y
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com. -
Ep30: Markus Flynn - Black Men Teach
Ken and Paul are joined by the Executive Director of Black Men Teach, Markus Flynn.
The mission of Black Men Teach is to recruit, train, place, and retain Black male teachers in elementary schools. Their goal is for each of their eight partner schools to have 20% of their teaching staff be Black men within six years, by which time they will have built a pipeline that will provide 100 Black male elementary teachers within ten years.
Markus explains why representation within elementary school teachers is so important, and the gap that persists: for example, there are roughly 63,000 teachers in Minnesota, 220 of whom are Black men, and of that probably 50 or less are elementary school teachers.
This episode discusses:
- Why students identifying with, and seeing themselves in, teachers is so important.
- The impacts that unconscious bias have on influencing expectations and the tremendous implications teacher expectations have on students.
- How making school culture more equitable is critical to recruiting and retaining Black male teachers.
- The impacts Black male teachers can have for students of all races to eliminate unconscious biases and build relationships, particularly at a young age.
Learn more about Black Men Teach: https://blackmenteachtc.org/
Watch the full conversation with Markus on TMWM's YouTube channel, where you can watch all interviews with guests: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHiYVNqxYKmHkxvTwquc2KA
Read Ken and Paul's takeaways from the conversation with Markus: https://themodernwhiteman.com/the-blog
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com. -
Ep29: Casteism - how does differentiating it from racism help to understand inequities?
In this minisode, Ken and Paul discuss how a caste system both intertwines with and differs from racism and how the distinction can help to understand inequities.
They discuss:
⁃ How racism becomes easily deniable by shape-shifting and manifesting itself in covert ways.
⁃ How a caste system does not allow us to ignore structure; caste is structure and ranking.
⁃ That casteism is the investment in keeping the hierarchy as it is.
⁃ The threat of “Oppression Olympics” and last place aversion.
Referenced in this episode: “Caste: The Origins of our Discontents” by Isabel Wilkerson https://www.isabelwilkerson.com/
Connect with The Modern White Man by subscribing to their newsletter at www.themodernwhiteman.com and watch interviews with guests on TMWM's YouTube channel www.youtube.com/channel/UCHiYVNqxYKmHkxvTwquc2KA
Customer Reviews
An important and timely message
I have only listened to the first few episodes of the podcast so far and it has been well worth it. I appreciate the vulnerable approach Ken and Paul have taken with this show. I also really like way they are revisiting history or HIS STORY and setting the record straight about the white supremacist foundations of this country all the way back to the founding fathers. Understanding the history is so important to recognize how these institutions came to be and how they (and we) keep white supremacy alive by supporting them. I also love the way they emphasize the importance of unlearning and antiracism. Without active resistance and work, nothing will change.
Thought-provoking conversation
Ken and Paul do an excellent job dissecting and analyzing the meaning and implications of being a white man today. This podcast is filling a void in today’s society in that white men need to engage in a (often uncomfortable) conversation about their privilege in being white men.
Kenny and Paul
A very thoughtful, intelligent conversation on being a white man in the US. I like their emphasis on “identity work” as a necessary foundation for social change.