The Rhodes Center Podcast with Mark Blyth Rhodes Center

This is part two in our companion series to the book “Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation” (co-edited by Mark Blyth, Lucio Baccaro and Jonas Pontusson). 
In part one (which, if you haven’t listened to, we’d recommend you go back and do), Mark and his guests discussed how growth models are almost like the business model for a country. But of course, countries don’t exist in isolation. They can rise and fall together, and operate as regional economies tied into wider global networks. 
So…what do growth models look like at scale? How should we even think about them? 
To explore this concept, Mark spoke with two contributors to the book. Jazmin Sierra is an assistant professor of political science at Notre Dame, whose work focuses on the political economy of Latin America. Alison Johnston is an associate professor of political science at Oregon State University, whose work focuses on the European Union. 
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Transcript coming soon to our website 

This is the first in a three-part series on Diminishing Returns: The New Politics of Growth and Stagnation, a book co-edited by Mark Blyth, Lucio Baccaro, and Jonas Pontusson. 
Using examples from around the world, the book offers a new understanding of what happens to our politics when growth slows down. In this episode, Mark grills his co-authors about how the book came to be, and the big questions that guided its creation. 
Guests on this episode:
Lucio Baccaro, Director at the Max Planck Institute for the Study of SocietiesJonas Pontusson, Professor of Comparative Politics at the University of Geneva
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In 1849, the historian and philosopher Thomas Carlyle referred to economics as the “dismal science.” The pejorative stuck, and is still slung by critics of the field today. 
But what if economics is worse than “dismal”? What it’s…harmful? 
George DeMartino’s recent book, “The Tragic Science: How Economists Cause Harm (Even as They Aspire to Do Good)”, makes exactly that claim: that economists aren’t just ineffective at solving social problems; they often end up creating new ones. Worse still – since economics lacks a meaningful criteria for defining what harm is, economists often don’t know how to measure (and fix) the problems they create. 
George is an economist himself, and his work isn’t just a pile-on against the field. Rather, his critique points a way towards a more socially engaged version of economics – one that takes the notion of harm seriously. 
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On this episode Mark Blyth talks with this year’s invited speaker at the Rhodes Center’s annual 'Ethics of Capitalism’ lecture series, journalist D​​avid de Jong. 
David’s groundbreaking book “Nazi Billionaires: The Dark History of Germany's Wealthiest Dynasties”, looks at the individuals and companies that accumulated unimaginable wealth under the Third Reich. Through his incredible investigative work, he exposes how these companies – including iconic German businesses like Volkswagen, BMW, and Allianz – thrived under the Nazi regime. He also looks at how, despite their dark history, most have never fully reconciled with their past – and how the families that founded such enterprises have only grown more wealthy in the decades since. 
David and Mark discuss this dark history, and explore the questions it poses about the nature of capitalism: how can businesses operate responsibly in a world where it’s so easy to profit off the suffering of others? And what do private companies owe the rest of us, above their bottom line? 
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The history of international politics since 1945. The role of values in the global economy. The future of America’s relationship with China. All three of these would be ambitious topics for a work of political economy. But combining them? That’s not for the faint of heart.  
However, that’s exactly what Sir Paul Tucker has done in his new book, “Global Discord: Values and Power in a Fractured World Order”. 
Tucker is a former central banker, and a current research fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. In this episode, Mark Blyth talks about the book with Paul and political economist Aditi Sahasrabudde. 
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One concept that comes up a lot on the Rhodes Center Podcast: the idea of the 'free market’.
The idea, as you might know it, begins with John Locke, is fashioned fully by Adam Smith, and is delivered to us gift-wrapped (after some delays) by the likes of Hayek and Friedman in the mid 20th century.
But as our guest on this episode explains, the idea of the free market is hardly so straightforward. Jacob Soll is a professor of philosophy, history, and accounting at the University of Southern California, and in his book “Free Market: The History of an Idea,” he begins way back in ancient Rome, stops in 17th-century France with Louis XIV’s minister Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and, on the way to the present, barely mentions Adam Smith at all. 
No matter what you think of when you hear the words ‘free market’, Jacob's incredibly informative – and highly readable – history will make you see the concept in a whole new light. 
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