It Gets Late Early: Career Tips for Tech Employees in Midlife and Beyond

Maureen Wiley Clough
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It Gets Late Early: Career Tips for Tech Employees in Midlife and Beyond

Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

  1. HACE 2 DÍAS

    Fired for Being 42, the Insane Age Discrimination Case No Lawyer Would Take, and Picking Up the Pieces with Over 40 Founder Emilia D'Anzica

    Imagine hitting all your KPIs at work, only to be told you're out—because they want someone younger. Well, that’s exactly what happened to today’s guest, the incredible Emilia D’Anzica. And trust me, her comeback story is one for the books! Emilia is the founder of Growth Molecules, an author, and an all-around powerhouse. She takes us through her nuts experience of being pushed out of a tech company despite knocking it out of the park for 13 quarters straight.  Emilia shares how she handled the blow (hint: with grace and a lot of courage), why fighting ageism in court is nearly impossible, and the advice she received from top lawyers. But this isn’t a downer episode! Emilia didn’t just take the hit – she flipped the script and used her MBA to launch her own successful consulting firm.  We also talk about the rampant ageism in tech, the gender and racial pay gap, and how recruiters are still weirdly biased about hiring older talent (hello, 57 is not “too old” to hire!) If you’re over 40 and feeling it in your job search or career, Emilia’s story will inspire you to keep pushing forward. She’s living proof that there’s life – and success – after even the most unfair corporate rejection.  So, don’t miss this conversation packed with insights and a story that will leave you both inspired and enraged. “If you're a recruiter, you should have the courage to look past how that person looks. We shouldn't have to pay an 'age tax' to get a job.”  - Emilia D’Anzica In This Episode: -Emilia’s shocking story of being replaced by a younger colleague despite consistent success -Why age discrimination is so hard to prove in court (and the advice Emilia got) -How Emilia turned a tough experience into a thriving business -Recruiter bias against older workers and why we need to fix it -McKinsey research insights on gender pay gaps  -A peek into Emilia’s book Pressing On as a Tech Mom  And much more! Resources Mentioned in the Episode: -Emilia D’Anzica’s book, Pressing On as a Tech Mom: https://www.amazon.com/Pressing-Tech-Mom-Industry-Boundaries/dp/1956955194  -Women in the Workplace 2024: The 10th-anniversary report: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/women-in-the-workplace    Connect with Emilia D’Anzica: -Website: https://growthmolecules.com/    -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emiliadanzica  -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emiliadanzica/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a...

    38 min

  2. 15 OCT

    How Menopause Affects Productivity at Work, Corporate America’s Neglect of Women's Health, and the Billion-Dollar Cost to Businesses with Tamsen Fadal

    Did you know that menopause affects over half the population and costs companies billions in lost productivity each year? And yet, it's still one of the most overlooked issues in the workplace. Well, today’s episode focuses on the impact of menopause on the workforce. I share my experience with a tech company's absurd mishandling of women’s health, where a session titled "Navigating the Uniqueness of the Female Body" (and no, I'm not kidding!) was beyond offensive. I’ll share some shocking statistics on menopause and its symptoms, which can last up to - get this - 20 years! Additionally, my guest, Tamsen Fadal, a former journalist turned menopause advocate, recounts a personal story about collapsing in the newsroom due to her symptoms, which led her to focus on raising awareness about menopause. Tamsen is about to launch a documentary called The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and continually advocates for better workplace education and support for women experiencing menopause. Tamsen stresses the need for companies to address menopause and highlights organizations that are making progress in this area. She emphasizes that better education and treatment can improve both employee well-being and workplace productivity. Whether you're experiencing menopause, know someone who is, or just want to create a more supportive work environment, this conversation is for you. Tune in to learn how you can be part of the change. “As long as we know what to expect, and you’re not surprised or sideswiped by something, it just makes it a little bit easier—even if the symptoms are not.”  -Tamsen Fadal In This Episode: -The definition of perimenopause, menopause, and its symptoms -The impact of menopause symptoms on women and workplaces -Menopause-related productivity losses and healthcare costs -How companies benefit from addressing menopause -Education and support for women experiencing menopause -Why raising menopause awareness is crucial  -How women should handle aging in the workplace And much more! Resource Used in the Episode: -Economic Impact of Menopause: Individual and Collective Costs: https://www.aarp.org/pri/topics/work-finances-retirement/employers-workforce/menopause-workplace/  Connect with Tamsen Fadal: -Website: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/ -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamsenfadal/  -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Website: a href="https://www.itgetslateearly.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    38 min

  3. 1 OCT

    Why Some Women Try To Look Older At Work, Gender Bias in Big Tech, and Building an AgeTech Company in a Youth-Obsessed World with Wisdom.io CEO Cathy Minter

    The world population is aging, and with 10,000 people turning 65 daily, new opportunities are emerging in the tech industry. So, today, we're exploring the AgeTech revolution with Cathy Minter, the CEO and co-founder of Wisdom.io.  AgeTech? Yeah, it's a thing, and it's been quietly changing the game since 2016. But we're not talking about teaching your grandparents to code (although they definitely could…because we never stop learning new things, remember?). We're talking about everything from "I need to plan my will" apps to smart homes that won't let you forget your meds. Now, Cathy's not just some tech guru who decided to cash in on the “silver tsunami,” aka demographic change. Nope, she's got skin in the game. Her journey into AgeTech is like a roller coaster ride through personal loss, family drama, and a "wait, why isn't there an app for that?" moment during the pandemic. You'll want to hear how being the baby of the family turned her towards tech founderdom. Cathy's not just about keeping old folks "aging in place" (a term that has got to go, btw). She's all about living well independently as long as possible. And boy, does she have stories to tell about navigating the gender bias and ageism in the tech world. From trying to look older in her 30s (because apparently, corporate tech leadership and youth don't mix) to dealing with the subtle "oh, honey" vibes in her 50s, Cathy's seen it all. So, if you're curious about how AgeTech is gearing up to make our golden years truly golden, or if you just want to hear some juicy tales from Silicon Valley, this episode's got you covered. “I asked one of the older adults in our focus group about aging in place, and she said it’s just about living life to the fullest for the time that you have.”  - Cathy Minter In This Episode: - Introduction to AgeTech and its ability to improve lives -Cathy’s journey to founding Wisdom.io -The sandwich generation and the future of age tech -Navigating career growth and gender bias in the workplace -Barriers to AgeTech adoption for older adults -Redefining “aging in place” -Ageism in the tech industry -Innovation gaps in the tech sector for older adults -The value of mentorship and intergenerational collaboration And much more! Connect with Cathy Minter: -Website: https://www.mywisdom.io/  -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyminter Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - a...

    52 min

  4. 17 SEPT

    Indeed’s Ageist Career Guide, Viral LinkedIn Reaction, and the Impact on the Ageism Debate

    In this solo episode, I break down the recent controversy surrounding a career guide published by Indeed, the world’s largest job site, with 365 million daily users and over 3.5 million employers. Here’s a teaser: The guide labeled ages 45-55 as “late career” and 55-65 as “decline,” sparking an outcry over its ageist language. I stumbled across the uproar late one night on LinkedIn and decided to post my thoughts, which quickly went viral. Indeed responded within hours, issuing an apology and removing the offensive content, but the damage was already done! The guide perpetuated harmful stereotypes, like the idea that workers in their 40s and 50s should aim for less demanding roles and stop learning new skills. This couldn’t be further from the truth—many of us are thriving in our careers at this stage, with plenty of energy and ambition. While I appreciate how quickly Indeed responded, I still question how the management allowed the guide to be published in the first place. It raises concerns about whether they truly support an age-inclusive work environment. But this situation has opened up an important conversation about ageism, and I’m hopeful it will lead to lasting change. Can several viral posts on LinkedIn really change how a major corporation thinks about age? Join me as we explore how this Indeed debacle can serve as a catalyst for real change in tackling ageism in the workplace. Don't worry—we'll get some solid career advice and probably a few laughs too. In This Episode: -Introduction and overview of Indeed’s corporate values -Personal experience with the career guide controversy -Career stages in Indeed’s career guide -Critique of the career guide's advice -Raising a successor for your position -Retirement in your forties: myth or reality? -The "decline" era: what to expect -The reality of ageism in the workplace -Indeed's apology and future steps Resources Mentioned in the Episode: -Indeed’s live webinar on November 7, 2024, titled “Success and Satisfaction in the Later Stages of Your Career”: https://www.linkedin.com/events/7237487552620843009/  -Indeed’s article, “Ageism in the Workplace: Its Impact and How to Prevent It”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/ageism-in-the-workplace  -Indeed’s article, “ADEA: An Employer's Guide to the Age Discrimination in Employment Act”: https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/adea#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20the%20ADEA,ability%20when%20making%20those%20decisions.  -Maureen’s LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/maureenwclough_are-you-over-55-indeed-as-in-the-one-that-activity-7235228512918388738-wIYC?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    44 min

  5. 3 SEPT

    Surviving Corporate via Humor, Navigating Layoffs, and Age-Shaming at Work With HR Besties’ Jamie Jackson

    Today I've got Jamie Jackson, the brilliant mind behind 'Humorous Resources', 'Millennial Misery,' and 'Horrendous HR,' and the co-host of the HR Besties podcast. She's not just your average HR pro - she's like the standup comedian of the corporate world, using humor to keep us all from losing our minds in the 9-to-5 grind. Jamie's hilarious social media accounts were born out of the pandemic chaos while working at a healthcare clinic. Talk about a pressure cooker situation! But instead of cracking, she turned to humor. It's like she found the secret sauce to surviving corporate America, and now she's sharing it with all of us poor souls who've felt the sting of a pink slip delivered with all the warmth of a robocall. So, let’s talk about it! You know that feeling when you're called into a surprise meeting, and your stomach drops to your shoes? Well, Jamie has been on both sides of the table, even standing up to a company owner over a harassment claim. Spoiler alert: it cost her the job. But hey, who needs job security when you've got integrity, right? Additionally, Jamie's got some juicy stories about being an "elder millennial" (is that even a thing?) and the double standards between older men and women. We also get into the wild world of content creation and how it's not all sunshine and rainbows for the ladies out there. Turns out, the glass ceiling isn't just in the office - it's all over social media too! Join us for some solid anecdotes about aging, advocating for what's right, and staying true to yourself in a corporate world that sometimes feels like it's gone mad.  "Layoffs, a lot of times, it’s really just a giant math equation. They may not even be looking at names; they’re looking at salaries. It’s not personal. You were just a part of the equation.”  - Jamie Jackson In This Episode: -The inspiration behind Jamie’s humorous HR accounts -Misconceptions about the HR role -Why humanity and empathy are critical in corporate leadership -The challenges HR faces when handling layoffs, -The cost of standing up for employee’s rights in HR -How organizations can navigate layoffs with empathy -The rise of layoffs in tech and the loss of humanity -Ageism in the workplace and its impact on career advancement -Gender disparities in corporate settings -Age perceptions and prejudices on social media And much more! Connect with Jamie Jackson: -Humorous Resources: https://www.instagram.com/humorous_resources/?hl=en  -Millennial Misery: https://www.instagram.com/millennial_misery/ -HR Besties Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hr-besties/id1712137225 Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Website: a...

    42 min

  6. 20 AGO

    How You're Getting Discriminated Against at Work, Part 2, with EEOC Commissioner Keith Sonderling

    In the last year alone, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) received nearly 81,000 charges of workplace discrimination. And here's a kicker – age discrimination made up a whopping 17.5% of those cases! This is not merely a fringe issue in our society. In today’s episode, I sit down with Keith Sonderling, the EEOC commissioner, to explore the realities of workplace discrimination and the EEOC's role in safeguarding civil rights across the United States. Keith shares the EEOC's mission, which goes beyond enforcing anti-discrimination laws to educational initiatives that prevent discrimination and help employers and employees understand their rights and obligations.  We're covering everything from the EEOC's birth during the Civil Rights Movement (talk about a dramatic origin story!) to the modern-day villains of age discrimination and AI bias in hiring. And trust me, some of these true stories from the workplace are pretty wild - and have resulted in some stiff penalties for the companies who got caught. So whether you're the one signing the paychecks, the HR guru trying to keep everyone in line, or just someone who wants to know their rights, this episode is for you. Join us for a conversation that's equal parts enlightening and entertaining – because who said learning about our civil rights in the workplace can't be fun? "If AI discriminates versus a human, the scale-ability of the discrimination is far greater than any one individual human can do. With just a few clicks, AI can eliminate millions of applications that the algorithm might identify as belonging to a protected class, amplifying bias on an unprecedented scale.” - Keith Sonderling In This Episode: -The EEOC's role in preventing and remedying workplace discrimination -Common misconceptions about the EEOC’s mission and operations -Scope and statistics of legal cases on discrimination -The rise of age discrimination cases: what qualifies as ageism -The impact of AI on hiring practices and potential risks for discrimination -Best practices for preventing age discrimination -Practical advice for employees facing discrimination and the steps they can take And much more! Connect with Keith Sonderling: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-sonderling  -Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/ksonderlingeeoc -Website: https://www.eeoc.gov/keith-e-sonderling-commissioner Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -LinkedIn: a...

    48 min

  7. 6 AGO

    How You’re Getting Discriminated Against at Work, Part 1, with Attorneys Peter Romer Friedman and Elizabeth Aniskevich

    My guests today are Elizabeth Aniskevich from the AARP Foundation and lawyer Peter Romer-Friedman, two powerhouses in the fight against age discrimination. They're here to shed light on this pervasive issue that's been hiding in plain sight (or, should we say, in plain algorithms?). Remember when job listings could brazenly ask for "recent college grads" or specify a maximum age? Well, those days might be gone, but the discrimination just got sneakier! Elizabeth shares some stats from AARP's research: a whopping 64% of older adults have seen or felt the sting of age bias, with 40% experiencing it after hitting the big 4-0. Additionally, Peter shares his experiences battling Silicon Valley giants and their questionable hiring practices. We dive into the world of AI and algorithms, exploring how these supposedly neutral tools might be perpetuating age bias without anyone even realizing it. We're covering everything from sneaky job ad targeting on platforms like Meta to the subtle ways ageism creeps into workplace culture. And the best part? We're not just complaining – we're talking solutions. So, whether you're a seasoned tech pro, a coding newbie, or just someone who believes in workplace fairness, this episode is for you. Join us for an eye-opening conversation about age, tech, and justice. "When you're talking about recruiting people, it's very different than recruiting customers for soap or paper towels or a car. When you're recruiting for a job or a mortgage or insurance, there are laws that say you can't exclude people based on who they are, including their age.” - Peter Romer-Friedman In This Episode: -AARP research findings on the prevalence of ageism and its impact -Elizabeth's journey into civil rights litigation -Peter’s public interest litigation work and experience  -Age discrimination in Silicon Valley -Intersectionality and cultural factors that compound ageism  -How AI and algorithms perpetuate discriminatory job postings -The burden of proof in age discrimination cases -Workplace diversity and the value of older workers -Positive signs and cultural shifts in ageism  And much more! Connect with Peter Romer-Friedman: -Website: https://prf-law.com/  -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-romer-friedman-7031576/  Connect with Elizabeth Aniskevich: -Website: https://www.aarp.org/aarp-foundation/  -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-aniskevich-b3690617 Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Website: a href="https://www.itgetslateearly.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    56 min

  8. 23 JUL

    How to Reinvent Your Career After 40 With Career Coach John Tarnoff

    Are you feeling stuck in your career and afraid to make a bold move? John Tarnoff, the career reinvention coach and founder of the Mid-Career Lab, will shake up everything you believe about mid-career shifts, especially if you're rocking that over-40 life! Get ready to flip the script on job loss and retirement. John shows us that getting fired is not shameful or fatal, as we’ve been made to believe. John's not just talking the talk – he's walked the walk! He's gone from getting the boot 39% of the time in the rollercoaster world of entertainment to becoming the go-to guru for career reinvention. Talk about a plot twist, right? And if you think the 60-year career sounds like a snooze fest, you are right! John's challenging that notion. You’ll learn to differentiate yourself in a crowded job market at any age. Spoiler alert: It's all about unleashing your inner superhero (aka your 'superpower'), leveraging relationships, and becoming a thought leader in your zone of genius! Oh, and did I mention you might want to have your LinkedIn profile open while listening? Trust me, after hearing John's take, that green "Open-To-Work" circle might be the next thing to go! So, if you are itching for a career change in the ageist tech world or elsewhere, you’ll love this one! We’ve got you covered with all the actionable insights to sustain career growth in a competitive job market, so tune in! "Find your superpower... That combination of results that you deliver, philosophies of life that you bring to the table, your personality, all of those unique factors. Define that value." - John Tarnoff In This Episode: -Reframing job loss as an opportunity for growth -How to identify and leverage your superpower -Applying the 80/20 rule in building your community -Utilizing platforms like LinkedIn to showcase your value -The value of a multigenerational workforce  -Combating ageism in the tech industry -How to position yourself as a consultant instead of unemployed -Approaching job interviews as networking opportunities and consultative engagements -Cultivating a mindset of continuous value delivery and consultation  -How introverts can overcome networking challenges -Adopting a design-thinking approach to career development  And much more! Resources Mentioned in this Episode: -Answer John’s four ‘Ikigai’ questions: https://johntarnoff.com/ -Bill Burnett and Dave Evans’ book, “Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life:” https://a.co/d/95mGWsm Connect with John Tarnoff: -Website: https://midcareerlab.com/  -LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/johntarnoff Connect with Maureen Clough: -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    51 min
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Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

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