The Immortal Life of Agencies

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The Immortal Life of Agencies

Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency? Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’. Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby. Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.

  1. GroupM’s CEO: Honest leadership in times of change - Josh Krichefski

    10 DIC

    GroupM’s CEO: Honest leadership in times of change - Josh Krichefski

    “Running an agency is like doing a jigsaw with some of the pieces missing.” How’s that for candour from GroupM’s EMEA’s CEO Josh Krichefski? This conversation unpacks the joys and challenges of running an agency of international scale - from the inevitable cycle of client wins and client losses, to the increasingly transformational needs of modern clients.  Josh also offers his perspective on the trends reshaping the industry, including how AI is enhancing efficiency, redefining agency operations and emphasising the importance of human creativity and intelligence.  In his other role, as President of the IPA, Josh has made mental health central to his agenda. He shares his perspective on therapy, resilience and open communication. In particular, he explains how agency differentiation and new technologies can positively impact wellbeing as the industry evolves. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:16] How the industry is in fast-forward [06:30] Why AI is only part of the solution to pressure on agencies [08:59] The impact of AI on the billable hour  [09:50] Becoming more client-driven at group level [15:05] The impact of losing long-term clients  [16:40] What clients are increasingly demanding from agencies [20:20] Differentiating on people vs data [24:02] What agencies still need to figure out on wellbeing  [28:35] Connecting differentiation, winning and mental health [30:34] Taking the pain out of agency life MORE ABOUT JOSH: Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/josh-krichefski Website: groupm.com HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn   Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: codefinery.com

    35 min
  2. Mischief’s Co-founder: The risks of malicious obedience - Greg Hahn

    19 NOV

    Mischief’s Co-founder: The risks of malicious obedience - Greg Hahn

    “The best way to win the game is by not playing the game.”  How’s that for a hot take on the agency business?  It’s from Mischief’s fascinating and thoughtful Chief Creative Officer, Greg Hahn. In this episode, we unpack just how pervasive fear has become in the agency business - including where it shows up and what to do about it.  In a world where agencies have become so meek, he’s even heard clients say that their agencies are afraid of them. Clearly this is not the path to good work. This leads to what Greg calls ‘malicious obedience’ - where fearful agencies prioritize clients’ immediate wants over their long-term needs.  Since co-founding Mischief just four years ago, no wonder he’s worked hard to create a culture of safety. That goes a long way to explaining how they’ve created such impressive results in such a short time.  HIGHLIGHTS: [02:05] Client Needs vs. Client Wants  [04:40] How the Pandemic changed Client/Agency Dynamics [08:07] Freedom and Responsibility [13:03] Building a Culture of Safety  [16:06] Charging Clients and Valuing Senior Talent  [27:20] Fear in the Creative Process  [30:45] Advice for Young Creatives [32:06] Balancing Work and Life  [38:19] The Future of Agencies MORE ABOUT GREG: Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/greghahn Website: mischiefusa.com/ HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    40 min
  3. Jellyfish’s Global ECD: Why creativity relies on diversity - Jo Wallace

    5 NOV

    Jellyfish’s Global ECD: Why creativity relies on diversity - Jo Wallace

    “Creativity is our ‘special sauce’”. Really, though - is it?  This is the episode I’ve wanted to record for ages. I finally get to address my bemusement at agency leaders claiming that ‘creativity’ is their agency’s point of difference, and then delivering conference keynotes where they also say it’s the whole industry’s USP.  Thankfully, here’s Jo Wallace - the always eloquent Global ECD at Jellyfish and founder of Good Girls Eat Dinner. Her experience and wisdom - gleaned from her fascinating career path - helps shed some light on what ‘creativity’ actually does.  Jo explores how her job is to provide robust solutions for clients, especially when her agency is invited into the right conversations. She also talks about the consistency of client challenges and the opportunities that new tools offer everyone in the creative industry.  This takes us onto the subject of diversity, in all its forms - particularly diversity of thought. Jo unpack where the best ideas come from and how different lenses make all the difference.  Finally we explore the importance of taking a position on societal issues - whether that’s creatives, agencies or brands - and how we can all take responsibility for building a better world.  HIGHLIGHTS: [03.45] Why agencies are poor at selling themselves  [07.00] Seeking new tools to address client problems [11.50] How Jellyfish’s differences land with clients  [14.50] Defining ‘creativity’ more broadly  [16.45] The myths and misinformation around equality  [20.19] How inequality hurts the economy  [24.20] Why advancement of one group doesn’t mean another is being held back [26.35] Should agencies be doing more to promote societal change [29.35] Whether brands willing to stand on the right side of history MORE ABOUT JO: LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/wallacejo/  Website - jellyfish.com/  Good Girls Eat Dinner - https://www.goodgirlseatdinner.com/  HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    36 min
  4. Common Interest’s CEO: The business case for differentiation - Anthony Freedman

    15 OCT

    Common Interest’s CEO: The business case for differentiation - Anthony Freedman

    Just over a year ago, Common Interest burst onto the scene with the acquisition of former Coke and Airbnb CMO Jonathan Mildenhall’s fabled branding agency, TwentyFirstCenturyBrand. It was one hell of an entrance into the global agency space. Today’s guest is Anthony Freedman, Common Interest’s CEO and Founder. Together we unpack how he’s building a new kind of holding company.  Of course, we’ve all heard ‘new kind of…’ rhetoric before, but Anthony is unusually clear on how he’s looking to do it - in this case, to accelerate brand and business growth through creativity in popular culture. Check out his response when I challenged him on his ‘brands in culture’ proposition. He’s definitely serious about being different.  There are so many learnings on offer here. From why specialisation matters and how risk aversion hampers innovation at scale, to unhelpful agency conditioning and how to avoid like-for-like comparison with your competitive set.  For Anthony, being different is a commercial imperative. So if you want your own agency to create lasting standout, then you’re going to love this episode.  HIGHLIGHTS:  [02:32] What makes Common Interest different. [05:48] Why CMOs struggle with cultural relevance. [08:48] Redefining the concept of holding companies. [13:05] A new model for cultural relevance. [19:56] The distinction between agency positionings and value propositions. [21:33] Why so few agencies are genuinely different. [25:05] Avoiding the race to the bottom. [29:01] His inspiration to be different.  [36:30] Being right for some clients and wrong for others. [38:20] The power of being the only choice for your target audience.  MORE ABOUT ANTHONY: LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/anthonyfreedman Website - commoninterest.co HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    41 min
  5. Only Dead Fish's Founder: When change becomes transformation – Neil Perkin

    1 OCT

    Only Dead Fish's Founder: When change becomes transformation – Neil Perkin

    DESCRIPTION For all the talk in agencies about change, transformation and - kill me now - ‘agility’, what exactly do these words mean in practice? And is blundering through ‘change’ causing more harm than good?  To shine a light on all this, today’s guest is Neil Perkin - the founder of Only Dead Fish, a consultancy sitting at the intersection of digital strategy, transformation and agility. He wrote the IPA’s ‘Partnering for Growth’ report, which unpacked how agencies can create long-term, mutually sustainable client relationships. He’s also a three-time author and the host of the acclaimed Google Firestarters series. So he knows a thing or two about how agencies successfully change - from evolving your client offer, to full reinvention.  The conversation starts with four fundamental building blocks for mutual gain with clients. We also unpack where optimization becomes transformation, and how to tell the difference between the two - including the importance of understanding the challenge before choosing your methodology for change.  Neil also speaks to practicality - from the importance of better ways of working, to when organisations focus too much on efficiency.  All in all, he offers us a masterclass in fast-paced change.  HIGHLIGHTS:  [04.40] Foundations of strong client/agency relationships [07.25] Optimization vs transformation  [10.55] Defining your approach to change [16.50] Solving the right problem [21.40] Approaching disruption like AI [27.45] Assessing ease vs impact of change [28.50] Balancing customer and organisational value [32.20] The value of a brand in digital transformation [35.10] Learning through ‘polarity of knowledge’  [36.20] Advice for agency leaders MORE ABOUT NEIL: LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/neilperkin/  Website - onlydeadfish.co.uk/  Neil’s books - https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Neil-Perkin/author/B06XF94WVJ  Google Firestarters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNBdIP33wJ3rZLkH1iR_Xjy0TznS1Ii_3  IPA ‘Partnering for Growth’ - https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/publications-reports/partnering-for-growth (free download) HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    39 min
  6. Meet The People’s CEO: How to maintain entrepreneurialism at scale - Tim Ringel

    17 SEPT

    Meet The People’s CEO: How to maintain entrepreneurialism at scale - Tim Ringel

    More and more ‘mini-networks’ are seeking to beat the holding companies at their own game. These often PE-backed groups of agencies can play the agile indie card, and they can also club together to service global clients. Unsurprisingly, each group claims its own point of difference vs the traditional holding company model.  Meet The People is one such emerging network. And our guest today is Tim Ringel, their Global CEO. MTP is three years old and already home to 800 people. Which isn’t a surprise when you consider that this isn’t Tim’s first start-up rodeo. As a career-long entrepreneur, he knows a thing or two about scaling agency businesses.  Tim is very clear on what he’s trying to do - in particular, how MTP is designed to combine the best of both worlds when it comes to indies and network agencies, and how he’s adapting to evolving client needs.  He also shares a strong point of view on one of the biggest questions facing a mini-network - whether they should trade as a single ‘branded house’ or more of a ‘house of brands’.  Most importantly, at a time when so many agencies lack commerciality, Tim talks passionately about how to sustain growth - and an entrepreneurial culture - as an agency scales.  If you’re leading, launching or competing with any of these mid-sized agency groups, or even if you’d just like your own shop to be more entrepreneurial, then you’re going to really enjoy the conversation. HIGHLIGHTS:  [03.10] Why Tim started Meet the People.  [07.45] How MTP offers safety to the agencies it acquires. [10.24] Solving common commercial issues. [11.45] Splitting clients by size and behaviour. [15.05] Why ‘branded house vs house of brands’ is the wrong question. [18.00] Tim’s aspiration for MTP. [22.16] The limitations of a short-term focus.  [27.26] Maintaining an entrepreneurial culture at scale. [33.40] Creating psychological safety.  [37.26] Being fearless despite market volatility.  MORE ABOUT TIM: LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/tim-ringel/  Website - meet-the-people.com/  HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    42 min

  7. 3 SEPT

    TomorrowToday’s CEO: How AI is changing the agency business model - Chris Johnson

    Having touched on the omnipresent topic that is AI in pretty much every episode, this time we dive right in. Our guest is Chris Johnson, Founder and CEO of the AI consultancy, TomorrowToday.  And wow, does he give value for money. While much of the industry discourse around AI centres on creative tools and ideation speed, Chris is focused on commercial application.  Our conversation starts with him sharing detailed advice on how agencies can reinvent their pitch process using commonly available AI tools. From simple efficiencies, to the creation of synthetic target audiences - and even synthetic clients! - he describes how you can proactively improve not just your ideas, but also how well they land.  Chris also shares his experience of the challenges associated with getting agency teams on board with wholesale adoption of new tools and technologies.  We wrap the episode by looking forward - exploring how AI will inevitably impact the way that agencies sell, price and make money.  This is such a valuable conversation. As well as honesty, humour and pragmatism, Chris brings plenty of clarity - not least on what AI can’t do, as well as how these emerging tools can help you generate real commercial impact.  HIGHLIGHTS [01:41] How Chris first blew my mind [02:51] Reinventing your pitch process with AI [05:50] How synthetic audiences can improve your ideas [10:00] Creating an AI version of what your clients care about [15.30] Creating commercial value with AI tools [18.25] How agency adoption dramatically varies  [20.15] The mindsets that help agencies use AI effectively  [25.20] How AI will redefine the agency business model  [27.25] AI, value-based selling and why differentiation is essential  [32.35] Can agencies really price on deliverables?  [35:50] Advice for agency leaders on driving AI adoption MORE ABOUT CHRIS: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsonchris/ Website - https://tomorrowtoday.com/ HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    41 min

  8. 23 JUL

    DDB’s Global CEO: Secrets of successful client relationships - Alex Lubar

    When it comes to advertising agencies, they don’t come much more prestigious than Omnicom’s DDB. Whenever any of us needs a quote of substance, Bill Bernbach - the B in DDB - is always a rich source of wisdom.  So what a treat to sit down with their global CEO, Alex Lubar, to find out what makes DDB successful. Alex speaks to what he sees as the two driving forces of agency culture - momentum and optimism - and how they’re an essential foundation for innovation.  We also cover how quality drives differentiation in a marketplace that’s often seen as oversupplied. And Alex shares his perspective on creating shared goals with clients, as well as how to maintain the trust and transparency required to ensure success.  Alex has an ease in the way he approaches his work, whether that’s dealing with difficult clients or handling the natural ups and downs of agency life. So regardless of whether you’re also in a big global role, this conversation is a valuable masterclass in optimism and positivity. HIGHLIGHTS  [04.07] The two driving forces of agency culture. [05.39] How supportive environments help solve problems. [07.07] Maintaining the highest standard of behaviour in the workplace.  [09.57] Talent management and self-improvement. [15.16] Insights from younger generations.  [19.45] Trends in client behaviour.  [22.30] Building an honest relationship between clients and your team.  [29.00] Perceived oversupply in the agency market. [30.25] Differentiation comes through the lens of quality.  [32.48] How clients choose agencies.  MORE ABOUT ALEX: LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/alex-lubar-292b744/  Website - ddb.com/  HOST SOCIALS: Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/   Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn   MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: https://www.codefinery.com

    35 min
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Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency? Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’. Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby. Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.

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    Co:definery
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  • Episodios
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    The Immortal Life of Agencies

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