Two by Two

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Two by Two
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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. Who and how do you incentivise to solve India's air pollution problem? (10-minute trailer)

    预告

    Who and how do you incentivise to solve India's air pollution problem? (10-minute trailer)

    “This is the first time we are discussing what I'd describe as a 'wicked problem'” says host Rohin Dharmakumar at the beginning of this episode. What's a “wicked problem”? It's not a bad thing, it's not an evil thing. A wicked problem is a social or cultural problem that's difficult or impossible to solve because of its complex and interconnected nature. They lack clarity in both their aims and solutions and are subject to real-world constraints which hinder risk-free attempts to find a solution. This definition comes from the space of systems thinking. And the “wicked problem” at center of today’s discussion is India's air pollution. More specifically, North India's air pollution problem and as we zoom down further on it, Delhi's air pollution problem. India ranks second globally as the most polluted country. Our particulate pollution increased by 67.7% from 1998 to 2021. Because of the PM2.5 pollution particles, which are the smallest actually, which we track, an average Indian's life is cut short by 5.3 years. And if you live in the north of India, the reduction is close to 12 years. Now these aren't statistics that most of you people would not have heard about. Depending on where you are in India, you think it's either a problem that you have to live with or a problem someone else has to live with. In this episode of Two by Two, we want to really discuss how to think about this problem, how to solve this problem, how to even begin to define this problem. Joining hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan for the discussion are guests Alok Mittal, co-founder of Indifi; Roshan Shankar, founder and CEO of Saroja Earth; and Mohit Beotra, co-founder of Air Pollution Action Group (A-PAG) Welcome to episode 27 of Two by Two. — What you just listened to is a short part of a 90-minute-long conversation. If you want to listen and get early access to the full episode, consider becoming a Premium subscriber to The Ken, which in addition to Two by Two, will also give you access to our long-form stories, Premiums newsletters and visual stories. Or if you just want to listen to Two by Two for now, for iOS users, we have enabled Premium subscription on Apple Podcasts. You can sign up for The Two by Two newsletter here—it's free! This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with like-minded individuals who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    9 分钟
  2. 27. Who and how do you incentivise to solve India's air pollution problem? (Premium Subscribers Only)

    23小时前 • 订阅者独享

    27. Who and how do you incentivise to solve India's air pollution problem? (Premium Subscribers Only)

    “This is the first time we are discussing what I'd describe as a 'wicked problem'” says host Rohin Dharmakumar at the beginning of the episode. What's a “wicked problem”? It's not a bad thing, it's not an evil thing. A wicked problem is a social or cultural problem that's difficult or impossible to solve because of its complex and interconnected nature. They lack clarity in both their aims and solutions and are subject to real-world constraints which hinder risk-free attempts to find a solution. This definition comes from the space of systems thinking. And the “wicked problem” at center of today’s discussion is India's air pollution. More specifically, North India's air pollution problem and as we zoom down further on it, Delhi's air pollution problem. India ranks second globally as the most polluted country. Our particulate pollution increased by 67.7% from 1998 to 2021. Because of the PM2.5 pollution particles, which are the smallest actually, which we track, an average Indian's life is cut short by 5.3 years. And if you live in the north of India, the reduction is close to 12 years. Now these aren't statistics that most of you people would not have heard about. Depending on where you are in India, you think it's either a problem that you have to live with or a problem someone else has to live with. In this episode of Two by Two, we want to really discuss how to think about this problem, how to solve this problem, how to even begin to define this problem. Joining hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan for the discussion are guests Alok Mittal, co-founder of Indifi; Roshan Shankar, founder and CEO of Saroja Earth; and Mohit Beotra, co-founder of Air Pollution Action Group (A-PAG) Welcome to episode 27 of Two by Two. — This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with like-minded individuals who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    1 小时 29 分钟
  3. Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe (Full Episode unlocked)

    1月23日

    Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe (Full Episode unlocked)

    Both Zomato and Swiggy have been aggressively focusing on the 10-minute grocery delivery space for a while now. Quick commerce.  But what sent both of them into a spiral was when Zepto, the joker in the quick commerce pack, started delivering snacks in 10-minutes through Zepto Cafe, a separate app. Suddenly, quick commerce wasn’t enough. Quick food was up for play too. Swiggy launched Snacc soon after, and Blinkit followed suit with Bistro. Both were also separate apps. But this move to disrupt themselves to avoid getting disrupted has drawn a lot of flak from the restaurant partners listed on their platforms. Because a marketplace can only be neutral when it does not participate in it. And it is not like Zomato and Swiggy haven’t tried a hand at this before. Both platforms previously ran their cloud kitchen verticals, Zomato Infrastructure Services and Swiggy Access, respectively, which they had to close down or sell. They then turned their attention to delivering food and building up efficiencies to deliver it faster. But when Zepto Cafe came in the picture in December with their pitch as a separate app, both Zomato and Swiggy jumped back and opened that chapter again. Only this time, they added that they would deliver it in 10 minutes and said they were not trying to build a private label to compete with the restaurants listed on their platforms. They made it clear both Bistro and SNACC are separate apps which don’t use any of the data collected by Zomato and Swiggy to date. But what do the restaurants listed on the platform have to say about this? Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan got into what all of this means for restaurants in one of the most uninhibited, probing and also the longest episodes of Two by Two we’ve recorded to date. To capture the restaurateurs’ perspective, we have three guests who have experience working with both of the companies. Joining the hosts for the discussion are Gaurav Saria, founder of Infinitea, India’s first exclusive chain of tearooms and stores; Thomas Fenn, co-founder of Mahabelly and joint secretary at NRAI; and Ramchander Raman, former President of Cafe Coffee Day and co-founder and COO of Nucleus Kitchens. Welcome to episode 26 of Two by Two. Tune in to listen to an exciting discussion. – Additional reading: The Zomato-Swiggy cartel: Bistro and Snacc further threaten the restaurant business Zomato, Swiggy gave up on selling their own food. Then came along Zepto Cafe “There’s an app for that”–Swiggy, Zepto, and Blinkit – Two by Two is a premium podcast, available only to subscribers of The Ken. But we’ve unlocked this episode for a limited time for anyone to listen to. Search for Two by Two on your favourite podcast streaming platforms and start listening. This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    1 小时 57 分钟
  4. 26. Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe (Premium Subscribers Only)

    1月22日 • 订阅者独享

    26. Zomato, Swiggy, and the rise of the 10-minute "dark" cafe (Premium Subscribers Only)

    Both Zomato and Swiggy have been aggressively focusing on the 10-minute grocery delivery space for a while now. Quick commerce.  But what sent both of them into a spiral was when Zepto, the joker in the quick commerce pack, started delivering snacks in 10 minutes through Zepto Cafe, a separate app. Suddenly, quick commerce wasn’t enough. Quick food was up for play too. Swiggy launched Snacc soon after, and Blinkit followed suit with Bistro. Both were also separate apps. This move to disrupt themselves to avoid getting disrupted has drawn a lot of flak from the restaurant partners listed on their platforms. Because a marketplace can only be neutral when it does not participate in it. And it is not like Zomato and Swiggy haven’t tried a hand at this before. Both platforms previously ran their own cloud kitchen verticals, Zomato Infrastructure Services and Swiggy Access, respectively, which they had to close down or sell. They then turned their attention to delivering food made by restaurant partners and building up efficiencies to deliver it faster. But when Zepto Cafe came into the picture in December with their pitch as a separate app, both Zomato and Swiggy jumped back and opened that chapter again. Only this time, they added that they would deliver it in 10 minutes and said they were not trying to build a private label to compete with the restaurants listed on their platforms. They made it clear that both Bistro and Snacc are separate apps that don’t use any of the data collected by Zomato and Swiggy to date. But what do the restaurants listed on the platform have to say about this? Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan got into what all of this means for restaurants in one of the most uninhibited, probing and also the longest episodes of Two by Two we’ve recorded to date. To capture the restaurateurs’ perspective, we have three guests who have experience working with both of the companies. Joining the hosts for the discussion are Gaurav Saria, founder of Infinitea, India’s first exclusive chain of tearooms and stores; Thomas Fenn, co-founder of Mahabelly and joint secretary at NRAI; and Ramchander Raman, former President of Cafe Coffee Day and co-founder and COO of Nucleus Kitchens. Welcome to episode 26 of Two by Two. Tune in to listen to an exciting discussion. – Additional reading: The Zomato-Swiggy cartel: Bistro and Snacc further threaten the restaurant business - https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/zomato-swiggy-bistro-snacc-restaurant-business-9776464/ Zomato, Swiggy gave up on selling their own food. Then came along Zepto Cafe - https://the-ken.com/tradetricks/zomato-swiggy-gave-up-on-selling-their-own-food-then-along-came-zepto-cafe/ “There’s an app for that”–Swiggy, Zepto, and Blinkit - https://the-ken.com/the-nutgraf/theres-an-app-for-that-swiggy-zepto-and-blinkit/ – Two by Two is a premium podcast, available only to subscribers of The Ken. But we’ve unlocked this episode for a limited time for anyone to listen to. Search for Two by Two on your favourite podcast streaming platforms and start listening. This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    1 小时 57 分钟
  5. The death of D2C (30-minute version)

    1月20日

    The death of D2C (30-minute version)

    It’s time for us to retire the term “Direct-to-Consumer” or D2C. The phrase is, anyway, a bit long in the tooth, having been used since the days of the dot-com boom. D2C used to mean selling directly to end customers, rather than selling through retailers or other middlemen. In theory, selling directly to consumers would allow a company to offer both lower prices and maintain higher margins (since it didn’t have to pay commissions to middlemen), having better products sustained through a faster innovation cycle and the ability to sell products through evolving brand stories instead of merely price. In reality though, few brands are even remotely D2C. For instance, 82% of Boat’s sales come via Amazon and Flipkart, with only 2% selling directly to consumers. The dependence on kiranas, distributors and modern retail has merely been replaced with a dependence on Amazon, Flipkart or Quick Commerce companies. Large and “traditional” FMCG companies, which were once acquirers of D2C startups, have sobered up. Their acquisitions haven’t really scaled up well, even as they’ve figured out how to compete with D2Cs. As a result, the acquisition premium for D2C startups has plummeted from the peak during the post-pandemic days. In some cases even a 50% discount from the peak isn’t leading to deals. In terms of categories, electronics has scale, but profits have plummeted. In skincare, there is also a downward spiral of competition and price pressure. A good example is Mamaearth, which is now paying the price on the stock markets. In terms of competition, the likes of Meesho, Fire-Boltt, Boult, Noise etc., are pushing prices dramatically lower. What is a differentiating factor? It’s hard to say right now. The entire category looks like a turnstile with a 2-3 year cycle. What is the way out? What should modern brands do to build lasting and sustainable brands? How should they cultivate consumer loyalty and connections? What should they even be called? Welcome to episode 22 of Two by Two. In this episode, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by Deepak Shahdadpuri, managing director and founder of DSG Consumer Partners–India and Southeast Asia’s first consumer-focused venture capital fund. We also had Ajai Thandi, co-founder of Sleepy Owl Coffee, and Seetharaman G, deputy editor at The Ken and resident expert on all things retail, joining the discussion. The full episode, which we released on 19 December 2024, is exclusively available on The Ken app with a Premium subscription and on Apple Podcasts via a separate standalone subscription. There is also a free Two by Two newsletter. You can sign up for it here. —— Additional reading: Boat, Noise unleashed cheap smartwatches on India. Rivals hurt them with dirt-cheap ones Mamaearth sold investors on its FMCG dreams. Consumers had other plans Brands once desperate for quick commerce now have a tiger by the tail —— This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN did the mixing and mastering for this episode. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com and tell us what you thought of the episode.

    28 分钟
  6. If B-schools were invented today, would students run placements? (10-minute trailer)

    预告

    If B-schools were invented today, would students run placements? (10-minute trailer)

    Business schools are among the most coveted higher educational institutions. Students go through some of the most competitive exams and pay significant fees because they hope that at the end of their degree, they will get a great job. Yet, the onerous process of finding, soliciting and bringing dozens of companies to campuses each year falls mostly on final-year students, who are part of elected/selected placement committees. For as long as we can remember, these committees have always been accused of bias, arrogance and powerplay by other students. Yet, the fact also remains that those on the placement committees sacrifice a significant part of their education and grades in order to run a great job-matching process for their entire batch. Should they, though? In the US, for instance, most leading B-schools have their professional teams that run the entire campus hiring process instead of students. Finding quality jobs for hundreds of students each year is a full-time job. In India, too, many colleges are gradually coming around to the same POV. IIM Kozhikode has transitioned the process from students to faculty. This model aims to instil transparency and professionalism in what vice-chancellor V Ramgopal Rao calls “a crucial rite of passage marking the end of academic life.” BITS Pilani has adopted a system where HR professionals employed by the institute handle placements. IIT Bombay set up a committee under a senior computer science faculty professor Uday Khedkar, with one of its aims being “setting up a clean and transparent placement process system”. Sources at IIT-B said the panel was set up after students brought to light instances of the biases some faced and how this had hampered their careers. Our guest for the episode is Professor Varun Nagaraj, Dean and Professor of Information Management & Analytics at S P Jain Institute of Management and Research (SPJIMR), Mumbai. He holds a Ph.D. in Management: Designing Sustainable Systems from Case Western Reserve University’s Weatherhead School of Management. He also holds an MBA from Boston University, an MS in Computer Engineering from North Carolina State University, and a B.Tech in Electrical Engineering from IIT, Bombay. His career spanning over three decades in digital products reflects his passion for product management, development, and innovation. Over the course of the discussion, the professor and hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss how placements have evolved since their MBA days, their misgivings about the current system, and what institutes have to get better at. Perhaps the larger question is, how should we think about matching employers and graduates? Is a compressed “placements” process the best way? Welcome to episode 25 of Two by Two. — Additional reading: Bias, lack of transparency trips job hunts in premier schools Why are IIT placements failing to deliver jobs? Former IIT Director explains Shiv Shivakumar's LinkedIn post  — This is a shorter '10-minute trailer' cut from the hour-long discussion hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar had with the guests. If you would like to listen to the full episode, you can do that by getting a Premium subscription to The Ken, which, in addition to Two by Two, will get you access to all our long-form stories, newsletters, visual stories and the rest of the podcasts we produce. But if you just want to sample full episodes of Two by Two, you can do that by getting a Premium subscription on Apple Podcasts at a great monthly price. This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with like-minded individuals who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    11 分钟
  7. 25. If B-schools were invented today, would students run placements? (Premium Subscribers Only)

    1月15日 • 订阅者独享

    25. If B-schools were invented today, would students run placements? (Premium Subscribers Only)

    Business schools are among the most coveted higher educational institutions. Students go through some of the most competitive exams and pay significant fees because they hope that at the end of their degree, they will get a great job. Yet, the onerous process of finding, soliciting and bringing dozens of companies to campuses each year falls mostly on final-year students, who are part of elected/selected placement committees. For as long as we can remember, these committees have always been accused of bias, arrogance and powerplay by other students. Yet, the fact also remains that those on the placement committees sacrifice a significant part of their education and grades in order to run a great job-matching process for their entire batch. Should they, though? In the US, for instance, most leading B-schools have their professional teams that run the entire campus hiring process instead of students. Finding quality jobs for hundreds of students each year is a full-time job. In India, too, many colleges are gradually coming around to the same POV. IIM Kozhikode has transitioned the process from students to faculty. This model aims to instil transparency and professionalism in what vice-chancellor V Ramgopal Rao calls “a crucial rite of passage marking the end of academic life.” BITS Pilani has adopted a system where HR professionals employed by the institute handle placements. IIT Bombay set up a committee under a senior computer science faculty professor Uday Khedkar, with one of its aims being “setting up a clean and transparent placement process system”. Sources at IIT-B said the panel was set up after students brought to light instances of the biases some faced and how this had hampered their careers. Our guest for the episode is Professor Varun Nagaraj, Dean and Professor of Information Management & Analytics at S P Jain Institute of Management and Research (SPJIMR), Mumbai. He holds a Ph.D. in Management: Designing Sustainable Systems from Case Western Reserve University’s Weatherhead School of Management. He also holds an MBA from Boston University, an MS in Computer Engineering from North Carolina State University, and a B.Tech in Electrical Engineering from IIT, Bombay. His career spanning over three decades in digital products reflects his passion for product management, development, and innovation. Over the course of the discussion, the professor and hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss how placements have evolved since their MBA days, their misgivings about the current system, and what institutes have to get better at. Perhaps the larger question is, how should we think about matching employers and graduates? Is a compressed “placements” process the best way? Welcome to episode 25 of Two by Two. — Additional reading: Bias, lack of transparency trips job hunts in premier schools - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/bias-lack-of-transparency-trip-job-hunts-in-premier-schools/articleshow/115893667.cms Why are IIT placements failing to deliver jobs? Former IIT Director explains - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/jobs/fresher/why-are-iit-placements-failing-to-deliver-jobs-former-iit-director-explains/articleshow/115895291.cms?from=mdr Shiv Shivakumar's LinkedIn post - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shivshivakumar_b-school-placement-must-get-professional-ugcPost-7269407772935368704-7nK_/ — This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with like-minded individuals who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com

    1 小时 26 分钟
  8. AI comes to annihilate India's SaaS companies (30-minute version)

    1月13日

    AI comes to annihilate India's SaaS companies (30-minute version)

    Artificial intelligence will affect all facets of modern-day business in some way or another. But it will most definitely go a few layers deeper with the type of companies whose job is to be a record of business’ today – SaaS companies. SaaS as a business model is investment-heavy in the beginning. It’s risky to build, it takes time to build, and it takes skill to build. But if successful, it is a cash cow. Think of the biggest SaaS companies – Salesforce, Microsoft and Adobe. They spent years building and iterating on software products. And today, all of these products they poured money into make them billions of dollars. But there’s a perfect storm that has been turning the tides, and the incumbents have seen the signs and have jumped at it to secure their advantage and not lose out to upstarts. The one thing about SaaS products is that they have to be constantly sold to their customers. But with AI, the entire loop becomes a solution that makes the customer’s life easier. SaaS products integrated with AI will be bought because they’ll solve the use case of its customers specifically. Companies which usually resort to different pricing strategies for small additional features will have to reconsider and be aligned to deliver outcomes for their customer, not a feature list which is based on purchasing licences to gain access. And in all of this, what happens to the Indian SaaS companies as the AI wave ushers in? In episode 21 of Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar sat down with guests Sumanth Raghavendra, CEO and co-founder of Presentations.AI and one of the co-founders of The Ken, and Sidu Ponnappa, CEO and co-founder of Realfast and former managing director of Gojek India. This is a '30-minute version' of the full conversation we had published on 12 December 2024. Full episodes are available to Premium subscribers on The Ken app and Apple Podcasts with a separate monthly subscription. A Premium subscription to The Ken will get you access to our long-form stories, premium newsletters, podcasts, and visual stories in addition to Two by Two. If you’d just like access to Two by Two, you can do that too by getting a Premium subscription to Two by Two on Apple Podcasts. Tune in to the latest Two by Two podcast to listen to an engrossing discussion on how AI will shake up SaaS models across the world and what’s in store for India’s SaaS companies. —— Additional reading: The AI apocalypse is coming: Are SaaS companies ready? BarbAIrians at the Gate: The Financial Opportunity of AI The End of the SaaS Era: Rethinking software’s role in business —— This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Mixing and mastering for this episode was done by Rajiv CN. Write to us with what you thought of the episode at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    31 分钟

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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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