What The Hell Is Michael Jamin Talking About?

Michael Jamin

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Michael Jamin has been a television writer/showrunner since 1996. He interviews professional writers, artists, and performers about living their creative lives, inspiring others to do the same.

04/03/2024

Ep 127 - Artist Manager Dave Rose

On this week's episode, we have music manager Dave Rose (Lit, Marcy Playground, Stryper and many many more) and we discuss his journey starting out as a bassist and what it’s like managing today vs. the pre-digital age. Tune in for so much more. Show NotesDave Rose Agency: https://www.deepsouthentertainment.com/ Dave Rose on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@daverosedeepsouth Dave Rose on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daverosedeepsouth/ A Paper Orchestra on Website: https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptDave Rose: I'm so amazed that people pay me to do this. I was doing it long before I knew you could make money at it. And so the pinnacle for me is really that this continued joy of the business of music Michael Jamin: You are listening to. What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. And today I got a special guest for you. Musicians out there. You don't deserve any of this. This is a wonderful treat for all of you. Don't say I never gave you anything. I'm here with Dave Rose from Deep South Entertainment and he is a career music manager. But Dave, first of all, welcome. I got a billion questions for you, but did you start off, are you a musician as well? Dave Rose: Thank you. Good to be here, Michael. Man, mutual admiration all the way around. This is exciting to be here. But yes, I started out as a musician. I was a, yes, I started out as a musician. I mean, yes and no, there's a story, but I became a musician out of necessity. Michael Jamin: How does that work? No one becomes, that's like the last thing you become out of necessity. Dave Rose: I know. Isn't that funny? So I was managing, and I very much put that in air quotes. Say I was a freshman in college and I had a local band decide they wanted me to be their manager. I was showing up at all their gigs and selling merchandise and unloading the van and doing all the things that I thought I could do to help. I just loved being around music. One day they said to me, would you be our manager? And I didn't know what the hell a manager was. I still don't. But they said, well, you could start by getting us some gigs. And that's not what a manager does, by the way. But that's when you're in college, that's what you do. Michael Jamin: That's not what a manager does then. Okay, you have to elaborate on that when we Dave Rose: Can get into that for sure. So I got 'em 20 gigs and we had it all booked up and we're all ready to go. And we were two weeks out from the very first gig, big string of shows, playing skate ranches and pool parties and all the places that you play when you're just starting out anywhere and everywhere that'll give you room. And they came me and they said, our bass player quit and he's moving, so we need to cancel these gigs and we can no longer, we will audition new bass players later. I said, like, hell, you are, I've been watching this. It doesn't look like it's that hard to play bass, so here's what we're going to do. I'm going to cram myself in the basement with you, Mr. Guitar player, and you're going to teach me all the parts to these songs. We're going to go play these 20 shows with me as the bass player, and when we come back, you can audition bass players. That's how. And they were like, yeah, that's not how that works. I said, well, that's the way this is going to go. And so they did. I crammed myself in the basement and learned to play bass in two weeks, and it was rock and roll. It was three chord rock and roll. Wasn't real hard, but apparently I picked it up pretty easily and I played bass in a band for the next 10 years, but that should have been my first indication that I was not a musician. I learned how to play just to keep a band. Michael Jamin: But you must, if you played for 10 years, you're good enough. Dave Rose: Yeah, I mean I figured it out along the way. Michael Jamin: Wow. But then at some point you went to full-time management. Dave Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I ultimately segued into full-time management, and that was, I started this company putting out compilation CDs. That was a big thing. I started in 1995 and in the mid nineties, these sort of mix tape CDs were a big thing. And I would find local and regional bands from around the area and put 'em on this compilation CD and put it out and see what happens. But from the very first CD we put out, we had one of the biggest hits of the nineties, a song called Sex and Candy by Marcy Playground. And my intention was I would stick my band right in the middle of all these big regional bands or bands that I thought was going to be big and maybe my band would get some attention too. And I think nine bands on that first compilation got record deals accept my band. So that was kind of my moment of realizing, yeah, I'm definitely not, I'm way better on the business side of things. Michael Jamin: So then tell me then what a manager music manager does exactly if they don't get you work. Dave Rose: Sure. It's very different, I would guess, than in the film and TV business. And I would love to learn this from you, but I'm guessing in the film and TV business, the person that gets you work is the agent. Is that Michael Jamin: Yes, the agent and not the manager and I have Right, Dave Rose: And that's what it is here. So a manager in music, I'm put it in the simplest terms, but it's like if the entire career is a wheel, the manager and the artist are in the center of that wheel. And all these spokes are things like booking agents and publicists and record labels and publishing companies and people that do film and TV music and all the accountants, the crew, all the thing, the attorneys that make the machine, the wheel turn. The manager is making sure all of those things are working. So it's sort of like being, I compare it to this, it's being the CEO of a band, but if you're, Michael Jamin: I'm sorry, go on. Dave Rose: That's all right. The band is owned by the band or the artist is owned by the, they own their company, but they retain an artist manager commission, an artist manager to manage their career. Michael Jamin: But if that band is going on tour, are you expected to go with them? Dave Rose: Only if you're in country music. Michael Jamin: Okay. Why is that? Dave Rose: It is different. Country music is one of the few genres that still very much lives and dies by the radio, and so the relationships with local radio is very important. So a manager should be there to kind of nurture those radio relationships from town to town to town. Now, if you're in rock and roll or hip hop or almost any other genre, Americana folk bluegrass, most managers do not travel with the band, Michael Jamin: But a touring manager would No, Dave Rose: A tour manager. Exactly. A tour manager does. And the tour manager is exactly, it sounds, it's the manager of the tour. So it deals with getting the bus from point A to point B and where do we park and what do I mean? It's way more than that, but it's the finance of the tour and they report to the artist manager. Michael Jamin: Now over the years, I've heard you mention this, you have a very, very big it's successful TikTok page, which is how I found you. You've managed a bunch of really big acts, right? Dave Rose: I've had some, yes. I've had a lot of, and I still do have a lot of big acts. It's been just amazing. I keep waiting for somebody to knock on my door and go, okay, gigs up. Time to get a real job. Michael Jamin: Can you share some of 'em with us? Dave Rose: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So I got my start with Marcy Playground, and I'm still with them 26, 7 years later. But one of my first big clients was the piano player, Bruce Hornsby, who was in the Grateful Dead, and he had a bunch of hits in the eighties and nineties, but he's had a very, very unique career. He is done albums with Ricky Scaggs and Jazz Records, but Little Feat, the classic rock band of, they're just so iconic. The band Lit who had one of the biggest rock hits of the nineties, that song, my Own Worst Enemy, some of the country acts that I've worked with, Laney Wilson, who just won a Grammy, and yeah, I worked with the band six Pence, none The Richer who had the mega hit Kiss Me. And so yeah, it's been not to just, one of the bands I've been with the longest 23 years is an eighties rock band from LA called Striper. They kind of came up in the ranks with Moley Crewe and Bon Jovi and that kind world of big hair and Sunset Strip and all the things of Hollywood, but they're a Christian man. They sing about Jesus. So they're very, very different than that. Michael Jamin: At this point. Are new bands finding you or are you reaching out to them? How does that work? Dave Rose: Yeah, they usually find me at this point, I don't develop a lot of new acts anymore, mostly because I've just been doing it a long time and developing a new act from ga

1h 23m
03/27/2024

Ep 126 - Actress Cynthia Mann Jamin

On this week's episode, we have actor Cynthia Mann Jamin (Friends, Ahh! Real Monsters, Angry Beavers and many many more) and we discuss her journey as an actor and director. We also talk about how the two of us met as well as what it’s like working together. Tune in for so much more. Show NotesCynthia Mann Jamin IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542699/ Cynthia Mann Jamin on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/prime-video/actor/Cynthia-Mann/amzn1.dv.gti.ca37e830-61b1-44db-8fe5-979422acb482 Cynthia Mann Jamin Shop: https://www.twirlygirlshop.com/ A Paper Orchestra on Website: https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptCynthia Mann Jamin: If it wasn't something that was organic for you, it would be torture trying to become this person that you think other people want to see, or you got to position yourself like this other person over here. But it really is about finding your unique voice because that's all we have. Michael Jamin: You are listening to What The Hell Is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase. And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Michael Jamin: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode. I have a very special guest today, the very beautiful and talented, I'm going to call her Cynthia Mann, although she's now currently Cynthia Mann Jamin and she's my wife and Cynthia. I met years ago, I was a writer on a show called Just Shoot Me, and she was the guest star and she was a working actor and she worked on many shows including she was a recurring on Friends. She had, I dunno, five or so or six episodes on Friends Recurring on Veronica's Closet, Seinfeld, er Suddenly Susan Will and Grace, all those shows of the nineties, all those musty TV shows. She did almost all of them. And now she is the director and producer of my one man show as well as the audio book. So I thought a paper orchestra. So she did all of that. So I thought we would talk to her about that and about her experience working in Hollywood as well as directing and producing my audiobook for all of you people who aspire to do something similar. Hello, Cynthia. Cynthia Mann Jamin: Hi Michael. Michael Jamin: Hello. My beautiful wife. She's in the other room. We're pretending we live far apart, but actually we live very close to each other. Cynthia Mann Jamin: You could say we're roommates. Michael Jamin: This is my roommate, Cynthia. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, most of all for producing and directing my show. And I don't know, where do we begin? What should we start with? Cynthia Mann Jamin: Well, I think it's, the thing that's interesting is people might want to know how is it working together and why do we work together? Michael Jamin: I don't have an answer for that. You're cheap labor. That's why we work. I don't have to pay you. Why is that? Why we work together? Cynthia Mann Jamin: Well, it's funny because it goes all the way back to when we were first dating. I think if you want to talk about that because Go ahead. Well, we love doing projects together. Michael Jamin: Projects, we call them projects. How the Canadians say It. Project, Cynthia Mann Jamin: Yeah, projects. And when we first met it was kind of like, well, we had this common interest of he's a writer, I'm an actor, but it's like you can't sit around all day and just write and act. So we would find common things that we like to take walks, we like to do hiking. I taught you about Run Canyon, you were running in the flats. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Why are you running in the flats? Why don't you run up a hill? Michael Jamin: I didn't realize you could. It was so steep. And then you said you ran it. So I said, oh, alright. I guess I could try running it. I Cynthia Mann Jamin: Totally ran it. I ran it all the time. I had, I had really muscular legs. You Michael Jamin: Did. I Cynthia Mann Jamin: Know you did. Yeah. And I still do. But yeah, so we would find little things to do and I would take you around LA and get you lafy and teach you what Celestial seasonings Michael Jamin: And Cynthia Mann Jamin: Stuff. Yes, tea Michael Jamin: Is and also Whole Foods and Mrs. Gooch's. Mrs. Cynthia Mann Jamin: Gooch's. Yeah. This is way back. We Michael Jamin: Would go to all this. She didn't approve of the supermarkets that I went to. So you Cynthia Mann Jamin: Can go in there. I'm not going to get my food there you there though. Michael Jamin: And so many ways You helped me a lot with art because you are an artist. You were a starving artist when I met you. Cynthia Mann Jamin: Oh yes. Yeah. Well, barely getting by. I would say would barely getting by. I've had every survival job you can think of. I've done singing telegrams with the monkey that goes like this, and I've done sold shoes and I've waitressed and I've done a million survival jobs. So in my thirties I finally started to get acting jobs and I was a professional dancer for a while. And Grit didn't go to college right away, only finished two years of it. Later in my thirties when I met Michael, I was going to college and working and going on auditions and all of that. And when I met Michael, it was one of those crazy auditions where the casting director, Deb Burki, who I'm forever grateful for, she brought me in just to the callback. She didn't even read me first because we had had a relationship and she always appreciated my work and thought, oh, this is good for Cynthia. Let me just bring her in straight to the producers. And I remember Steve Levitan was there, probably Andy Gordon and Eileen because it was their episode and Eileen Khan and I got that job. She called me the next day and just said, yeah, you got it. And I was like, oh, yay. I'm so excited. And they only booked me for three days. So when I went on the set, it was at Universal because I didn't really know what Just Shoot Me was. It was a new show and I don't think it was airing yet. It was just the first six episodes. So nobody really knew what it was about or the tone or anything. And I just went in, did my scene, went home prepared to come back the next day for shoot day. Really? And you guys sent me a script at nine in the morning or something like that and said, we rewrote your scene because we found a better way to write this scene. I don't know, you can tell me the behind the scenes of that. I don't really know why you did that. Michael Jamin: I don't really remember why that was rewritten. It was a long time ago. Cynthia Mann Jamin: I think it was. Maybe it just wasn't exciting enough or something. And you wanted the dialogue to be between me and Laura more. Michael Jamin: I don't Cynthia Mann Jamin: Remember. Instead of the roommate. And so you guys had me into the writer's room before, which is very unusual. You never really go into a writer's room to work out a scene. But because we were shooting it that day and we had to go straight to the run through and I think the network was going to be there. You didn't want to mess around. And so you gave me notes and we rehearsed it and Laura was there and the other scene partner who, I'm so sorry, I forgot his name. Chris, Michael Jamin: I want to say. Cynthia Mann Jamin: Yeah, Chris. And then we just went and shot it. And then I shoot the scene at night and I'm like, oh my God, this was so much fun. And it was great. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to go. And who's standing right next to me as I'm walking off the set and kind of hanging back and it was you. Michael Jamin: It was me, Cynthia Mann Jamin: It was you. Michael Jamin: And then you said you wanted to marry me. I said, I don't even know you. Cynthia Mann Jamin: I complimented your tie. That's right. And then you said, I did a really nice job. Yeah, you did. And I said thank you. And then we were talking about, I think you said, so what do you like to do for fun? Or something like that. Yeah. We went and I asked you that and you said you swing dance. And I had already been swing dancing at the Derby many times with my friend Brendan. And we would go and swing dance. So Michael Jamin: My Cynthia Mann Jamin: Knees went weak when you Michael Jamin: That's right. I took, it was either you or Brendan I took you. Cynthia Mann Jamin: So then long story short, there was a couple of weeks that went by and you called me and said, hi, this is Michael. And I said, I don't remember that name, but you're making it up because he has that name. And then you said, no, it's me and I would like to take you out for coffee. And I said, I don't drink coffee. I drink tea. Michael Jamin: Yeah, we had tea instead. Cynthia Mann Jamin: He said, that's okay, huh? Michael Jamin: Yeah, yeah. Right. Cynthia Mann Jamin: And then I remember this, Michael, on our first date, I hung back in my car because I think I saw you walk in. I'm like, I got to be a little late. I got to make him wait for me a little bit. So I made you wait just a little bit. And then I go in and the woman comes and says, so do you want a chocolate chip or oatmeal cookie, highland grounds? And it's not there anymore, I d

52 min
03/20/2024

Ep 125 - December 30th Webinar Q&A

On December 30th, I hosted a webinar called “How Professional Screenwriters Overcome Writer’s Block” and I talked about why story structure is so important in getting past this block. This episode addresses questions you asked in our Q&A session that we didn't have time to answer. There's lots of great info here, make sure you watch. Show NotesA Paper Orchestra on Website: - https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: - https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: - https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin: Everyone wants to be a showrunner, which is again, why it's so freaking Michael Jamin: Hard. I want to make all the decisions, but you don't know based on what you Michael Jamin: Don't know what you're doing. Why would you want that? Is it an ego thing you want to tell people you're a showrunner or don't you want to learn? Do you assume? When I was starting off, I didn't want to be a showrunner for 10 years. I didn't want to be a show runner. Like, this is a hard job. I don't know how to do it. Michael Jamin: You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase and to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Michael Jamin: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Well, we're doing another q and a from one of our webinars and my special guest host is Kevin Lewandowski, script coordinator extraordinaire. He helps out with a lot of my projects, social media projects here and he's subbing in for Phil and he's doing a great job. So welcome Kevin. Kevin Lewandowski: Thank you again for having me. Michael Jamin: You screwed it up. You already screwed. No, I'm only messing with you. You're doing great. Thanks. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah, I'm not going to apologize for not being Phil anymore, so fair Phil. But no, I'm happy to be here and this how professional screenwriters overcome Writer's Block is one of my favorite topics to talk about. Oh good. So I think it's super, super interesting and there's been, when we dive into it, I'll say my favorite line that you always say that just unlocked the excuse sometimes we use for when we have writer's block. Michael Jamin: I'm curious to know what your favorite line is. Kevin Lewandowski: Alright, I have so many Michael Jainism that I think my all time favorite is Shit Happening is not a story. Michael Jamin: By the way, we have that on merch now, guys. Yeah, we do. We got merch and you can go get it@michaeljamin.com/merch where all the crazy things that I say, you can get it on a on mug or a notebook or whatever. We got merge. Go get it. I should have plugged it before, but I forgot. But anyway, these questions came from our last webinar that we did and if you're not on my webinar list, sign up for it's free. Go to michael jamin.com/webinar and you can sign up. You can be invited when we do our next one. And so yeah, Kevin, we had a lot of questions people asked. We didn't have time to get all the questions answered and so here they are n Kevin Lewandowski: Here we go. These first couple of questions are going to be about kind of course related stuff. So this first one is from David Zilo. I feel like we see his name a lot. I feel like he comes to these webinars a lot and ask a lot of questions. The question is, how does the story structure change when say a character does not, cannot achieve a goal in the tragic story, for example, Michael Jamin: Doesn't change at all. It's the same old story structure that we use. Whether the character achieves their goal at the end or not, it's the same damn thing. Kevin Lewandowski: Yep. Michael Jamin: The guys you're just asking, he's just asking at the end, what if the last two minutes are different, so what? Nothing. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah, I think it's always more interesting for me when that character doesn't achieve their goal. I think the breakup with, but yeah, Vince v and Jennifer Ston, they don't stay together in the end. No. It's one of the few rom-coms that I think they decide to go off the beaten path and not have Michael Jamin: Them end often. We call this the joyful defeat in a movie or the character doesn't get what they want, but they get what they need. Yeah. Kevin Lewandowski: Next question, Rob. Robert, when is the latest the stakes should be made clear? Michael Jamin: The sooner the better because the story does not start until the audience knows what's at stake. And so until then you're boring them and you're daring them to change the channel or read another script or do something else with their time. So the sooner the better, and that's a note you'll get from a network executive. They'll always say, can we start the story sooner? And so wherever you have it, they'll give you that note. If it's on page four, they'll say page two. Kevin Lewandowski: In your experience, is there a realistic, for instance, if they were like, oh, it's on page three, we need it on page two, have you ever run into We just can't. We need a little bit of room to be able to Michael Jamin: Set Kevin Lewandowski: Something Michael Jamin: Up. Absolutely. And so you'll move it up a little bit, but sometimes there's only so much you can do. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah. But yeah, like you said, they'll always say, oh, can we start this sooner? Yeah, we'll take a look at it. We'll take a look at that. Coley Marie, can the goal change or appear to change? Michael Jamin: Yeah. Yes. And often it sometimes will. It's like because something happens and what the character thought they wanted is not what they want anymore. So yeah. Kevin Lewandowski: So how do you feel about, because sometimes it's, is there a fear of if you start writing it too much of a change, can it almost feel like, oh, okay, now we're following a different story to, Michael Jamin: It usually happens kind of like an act top of act three with the character discoveries. This thing that I wanted turns out I don't really want any. I got what I thought I wanted and it's not what I want. So that's usually late in the script. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah. So you're saying in top of act two, if they wanted to, Michael Jamin: It wouldn't be top of Kevin Lewandowski: Act ride a pony at the end of act one. Top of Act two should be like, well, I want to win this prize at the Carnival Michael Jamin: Now. Yeah, top of act two is one. Well, this is what we teach in the course. What tab of Act two would be, so yeah, Kevin Lewandowski: Arius Kennedy. So should we avoid high stakes conflicts? Michael Jamin: No. The higher stakes are good. High stakes are good. Higher the stakes are better. You want to avoid low stakes conflicts. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah, low stakes conflicts are not that interesting. Heather Marie, vital, how do we find conflicts for TV shows with main characters without getting stale? That's kind of the job of a writer. Michael Jamin: Yeah, that's right. That's exactly, that's the job without getting stale, it's like, and again, this is not her concern. Concern. Your concern is to do it once and then let's a showrunner worried about it getting stale. Right now your job is to write one great script Kevin Lewandowski: Are Barry, when it comes to an episodic show, there's the overall show conflict and then the mini conflicts of the episodes. So I'm assuming they're talking about, there's the A story, the B story, the C story, Michael Jamin: Or maybe they're talking about the overall arch of the show. I'm watching Show Gun right now and I'm only on episode one, so it seems like the overarching stories, how is this one? I dunno if he called the futile Lord going to maintain his position in the kingdom, but within each episode he has a challenge that he has to overcome, so to make that larger prop goal happen. Kevin Lewandowski: Meg Parker Wilson, when you are writing a TV show, do you plot out the entire story pilot to finale and then create all those moments episode by episode in terms of the arc and the structure? Michael Jamin: No, it's too much work. It's too difficult. What you really, and again, this is not something that she needs to worry about, but maybe she's just asking me out of curiosity, we'll come up with a pilot and we'll have that pilot broken. We know what that story is going to be and then we have a vague idea of what season one might be. But I'm talking vague, just enough to bullshit our way through this because it'll change when we're breaking the story. As we discover writing and digging into the character, we'll discover something that might be better. So what are we going to do? Not do it just because we said we were talking out of our ass that this other thing was going to be better, Kevin Lewandowski: Right? Yeah. I think Vince Gilian, creator of Breaking Bad, I think he says something very similar. Yeah, we kind of have an idea, but part of going through different story ideas is you discover stuff along the way. Jesse Pinkman was only supposed to be four or five episodes, and then now they realize how much chemistry those two characters had. And could you imagine, would that show have worked if they would've k

41 min
03/13/2024

Ep 124 - December 8th Webinar Q&A

On December 8th, I hosted a webinar called “What “Do Showrunners Look For In A Script,” where I talked about how to come up with interesting and unique characters, as well as how tapping into your everyday life interactions with people can help with this. This episode addresses questions you asked in our Q&A session that we didn't have time to answer. There's lots of great info here, make sure you watch. Show NotesA Paper Orchestra on Website: - https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: - https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: - https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin: Well, no one cares that you took my course, so zero. No one's going to be. That's why we don't give a diploma out because the diploma is worthless. No one really cares if you went where you studied, who taught you all they care about? Is the script good or not? Does it make them want to turn the page or not? Do they want to find out what happens next or not? Michael Jamin: You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Michael Jamin: Hey everyone, welcome to a very special episode of What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about. I'm here with my guest host Kevin Lewandowski, and he helps out a lot with the podcast, with all my social stuff, and he's actually by trade. He's a writer's assistant script coordinator, which is actually one step higher than writer's assistant, so he's worked on a bunch of shows. Kevin, welcome to the show. Kevin Lewandowski: Thank you for having me. Michael, for those of you, sorry I'm not Phil, I'm just kind of filling in for Phil for a couple days, but I'm excited to be here. And yeah, I hope to tell you all a little bit about script coordinating as well and what that all entails, Michael Jamin: Fill in and fulfill, fill Kevin Lewandowski: In and fulfill. Michael Jamin: What shows were you script coordinator on? Kevin Lewandowski: So the big one was Why Women Kill. Michael Jamin: Did we ever figure out why? Kevin Lewandowski: I mean, depending on who you ask, a lot of women will say because of men, Michael Jamin: They kill for ratings. Kevin Lewandowski: Right? Okay, that's better. But yeah, that was, I forgot how long ago that was, but that was, unfortunately we got canceled four or five days before we were supposed to start filming. Our actors had just landed in Canada and then the next day they announced they were pulling the plug on the show. Michael Jamin: Why? Kevin Lewandowski: It could be many reasons. I think a lot of it had to do with we were a little bit behind on scripts and then budgeting and we were still kind of in the midst of covid precautions and things like that. Michael Jamin: Covid, people don't realize, especially new showrunners, you don't mess with the budget. You get things done on time, Ross, you're screwed. What other shows did you work on then? Kevin Lewandowski: So the first show I ever worked on was in 2015. It was the Muppets, and it was funny. I thought if anyone ever caught a break, this is my break. I was like, it's the Muppets, it's going to go on for five or six years and I'm just going to notch up every year. And after 16 episodes, that one got canceled. Michael Jamin: What's Ms. Piggy really like? Kevin Lewandowski: I mean, she is who she is. Difficult. Yeah, she's difficult. She's a bit of a diva. We have to had to cater to all of her needs. Michael Jamin: What about, I'm sorry, and what were the other shows? Screw Miss Piggy. Yeah, Kevin Lewandowski: Screw Miss Piggy. So after that, a bunch of pilots that never got picked up, and then I worked for a show on Netflix called The Ranch with Ashley Michael Jamin: Element Kevin Lewandowski: That was a live audience show and I was there for two seasons. I'm trying to think after that. It's all becoming a blur. I did two seasons of Why Women Kill. Actually the first year I was a line producer's assistant, and so that was interesting to kind of see the financial side of things and see where they decide to put the money in. And then for season three, they moved me to Script coordinator, Michael Jamin: But the Branch was a legit show. That was a big show. Kevin Lewandowski: That was a lot of fun because I'd always wanted to work in the Multicam world. There's just something about show night and it's just kind of a big party for everyone and you get to see the audience's instant gratification. It's just a lot of fun. A lot of fun to work on those shows. Michael Jamin: Yeah. Well now the next thing for us to do is try to get you into one of these jobs so you don't have to co-host with me all the time on this Kevin Lewandowski: Podcast. I don't mind co-hosting with you. Michael Jamin: Oh, all right. Well, we'll see if you feel that way at the end. Okay, that's fair. So we are doing, this is a special q and a. We do these monthly webinars or whatever, every three weeks actually, and we have a lot of questions we can't answer. And so we save 'em for the podcast. And now Kevin's going to feed them to me. He's going to regurgitate them to me. He's going to baby bird them into my mouth, and then I'm going to try to answer them as best I can. Kevin Lewandowski: Early Bird gets the worm or something like that. Michael Jamin: Gross. Kevin Gross. Kevin Lewandowski: And I apologize in advance for anyone's name I might butcher. Michael Jamin: It's okay. They don't need to. I mean whatever if you get 'em wrong. Okay, Kevin Lewandowski: So these first few questions are going to be kind of course related questions. The first one is from Dat Boy, D-A-T-B-O-I. And that person's asking, what are the best tips for making my script shine more than the rest? Michael Jamin: Oh boy. Well, I wish he would. Well, he was already at my free webinar. I wish he would sign up for my course. I mean, that's what the course is. The best tips for making it shine is making sure your act breaks pop, making sure the dialogue feels fresh, your characters are original. I mean, there's no tips. It's not a tips thing. It's 14 hours of, let me tell you how to do it. That boy, I wish. What do you think, Kevin? What's your answer for him? Kevin Lewandowski: I think it's one of the things you always say on your webinars is after taking my course, you'll just hear me yelling in your head all the time about this is your end of act two moment, this is this, this is that. And I can vouch for that and say, anytime I'm looking through a script or even watching a TV show, because of your course and just understanding the story structure, you get those spider senses like, oh, the raising the stake should be coming very soon. Now we're about halfway through the episode, so something better be changing here. And I think it's just, again, everything you say in your course of just knowing those beats when they need to hit how they need to pop will help set your script ahead of amateur writers. Michael Jamin: You're a good student, Kevin. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah. Thanks. Michael Jamin: Alright, what's next? Kevin Lewandowski: So km phs, when I say I don't have experience, but I have a killer pilot and I took Michael Jamin's course. How much of a difference is the course going to make in terms of being a desirable hire? Michael Jamin: No one cares that you took my course. So zero no one's. That's why we don't give a diploma out because the diploma is worthless. No one really cares if you went where you studied, who taught you all they care about, is the script good or not? Does it make them want to turn the page or not? Do they want to find out what happens next or not? So I wish I could give you a better answer than that, but it's not the degree. The degree isn't worth anything. Hopefully the knowledge is worth something. Kevin Lewandowski: I think the analogy I have in my head of your courses, I look at scripts I wrote before taking your course, and it's like when you look back at high school photos and I had the Frosted tips, the pca, shell, necklace, hoop earring, and at the time it was cool. And now you look back and it's like it's pretty cringe-worthy. It's pretty cringe-worthy to see those photos. And now after taking your course, I feel like it's like now I'm wearing a suit and I don't have the poop hearing and I don't have the frosted tips, and I'm not as cringe-worthy when I look back at some of the scripts I wrote a year or so ago. Michael Jamin: Good, good. All right, good. Very good. Impressing me more and more, Kevin. Kevin Lewandowski: Right? Next question. Ous. I'm butchering that one. Nope, Michael Jamin: Perfectly. That's how he says his name. Kevin Lewandowski: Yeah. What are the most important things an inspiring writer should be aware of while reviewing one script before sending it to an established executive or writer? Michael Jamin: God, it's pretty much the same answer as all the other ones. It's like, do your act breaks, pop? Is it fresh? The dialogue, I'm sorry, but it's the same answer, so I don't really have anything to say. Yeah, yeah. Kevin Lewandowski: Next question, mal. Yay. Michael Jamin: Exactl

56 min
03/06/2024

Ep 123 - "My Boys" Actor Jamie Kaler

On this week's episode, we have actor Jamie Kaler (My Boys, Tacoma FD, Robot Chicken and many many more) and we talk about his career path as well as his experiences doing stand-up. There's so much more so make sure you tune in. Show NotesJamie KalerIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0435695/ Jamie Kaler on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Kaler Jamie Kaler on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamiekaler/?hl=en Jamie Kaler on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/jamiekaler A Paper Orchestra on Website: https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptJamie Kaler: He goes, Hey, just so you know, when you do watch it, we were running long for time. So we cut the tag. I go, you mean the reveal where I kissed the woman? He goes, yeah, we ran out of time and we cut it. I go, then everything I did up to that moment has no justification whatsoever because this is the craziest thing. He goes, I know. He goes, what are you going to do with tv? I go, all, whatever. And I moved on and I was like, couldn't care less. But Michael Jamin: You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Well, today I'm talking about acting with my guest, Jamie Kaler. This guy, before I bring him on this guy's credits are crazy. He works a lot and so I'm going to blow, yeah, blow through. I'm going to do the abridge version. If not, we'll be here all day, but I'm going to go way back. I'm on IM db now. I'm only doing the ones that I decide are highlights. But Jag, he's been on Fringe Friends. Suddenly. Susan Carnival, third Rock in the Sun, king of Queens, grounded for Life, married to the Kelly's Arrested Development, Spanglish, seventies show. What else Will and Grace, the Family Stone? Who remembers that? Monk New Adventures of Old Christine Sons and Daughters. How I Met Your mother, my boys. We know 'em from that. And then did I say Parenthood? Did I say shake it up? Did I say Austin and Allie? Did I say Teachers of the Year? I don't remember. I'm skipping crazy Ex-girlfriend. Jesus, dude. It doesn't end the middle Dads in Parks. Oh, we'll talk about that. Heather's robot Chicken. American Housewife. Most recently Taco fd where my partner and I created the character of Polanski. Jamie, that was exhausting. Are we done with the interview now? Jamie Kaler: Honestly, it was so much fun being here, man. All right, everybody, take care. See you later. Michael Jamin: That was such good advice. Sorry, you guys all missed it. Dude, you've been around. How did you get into acting? How does someone get into acting? By the way, Jamie Kaler: People ask me nowadays, and I go, dude, it's nothing. I mean now it's like don't even move to la just start a YouTube channel in upstate Minnesota and try to blow up. And then once you have a following, then you're set. Michael Jamin: But we were talking about on your podcast, the parent lounge, but I know you think it's like a burden, but I think it actually works in your advantage to you, to your advantage because you're really good at it. You're good. You have a great social media presence. You're quick on your feet. It seems to me this, even though it requires more work for you, it actually works in your favor. No, Jamie Kaler: You mean social media doing it this way? Yeah, of course it is, but I already did it. So now I'm kind of the same way that I used to go buy wigs and glue on mustaches and actually lit myself on fire on stage at Acme Comedy Theater when I was doing crazy shows on Friday and Saturday nights in the nineties with that fervor of what are we doing today? We're going to Goodwill, we're going to get some costumes, here we go. And I remember renting equipment, trying to shoot shorts and trying to clerks, and Ed Burns had made the brothers McMullan or whatever, and it was like, come on, we're making film. It was super hard and it was painful and it was costly. And nowadays you can do it with your phone. But I'm older, I don't quite have the drive. I also am watching two little kids. So the time in the day is where I used to go, this is my day. I'm going to go do this now. I'm like, I dropped the kids at school. I had to go to the cleaners. I taking care of the two kids. I got to pick them up. I'm coaching soccer today. So yes, I will say though, especially watching you and you're a writer, but now you have to become a social media guru to get people to see what you've created and you're an artist. But nowadays, gosh, I was posting something this morning about the pregnant pause is gone pretty soon. Humans are going to evolve where the eyes instead of side by side are over the top of each other because horizontal's over everything's vertical. We need to flip our eyes. And years from now, no one will take a breath because we've dictated that. The breath makes people lose attention though. You can take a pause. People go Michael Jamin: Done. I Jamie Kaler: Can't. He took a breath. I can't. Michael Jamin: Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. So I just had this conversation yesterday. I dropped an audio audiobook, and so some woman said I was doing a live, she goes, oh, I bought your audiobook. I love it, but I listened to it on one and a quarter speed. But I'm like, but when I take a pause, it's because I want to put a pause there. I want to give you a moment to soak it in. It's not arbitrary. Jamie Kaler: I wanted to take a Richard Pryor act from his comedy special and cut all the air out of it. And so you would take a 50 minute, one hour special where there's a groove. He's in the moment. It would be like if you took Buddy Rich and you took all the space between the drum beats out. You're like, a lot of the art is in the space, and we have forgotten that. And now it's like it's a machine gun or people's brains shut off. Michael Jamin: This is something when we're shooting a sitcom, often, we'll tell the actor, make sure you hold for a laugh here. Hold for the laugh. You will get one. Yeah. What do we do about this? Jamie Kaler: Well, I don't know because I was watching, have you watched Show Gun? Michael Jamin: No. Am I supposed to watch that? Jamie Kaler: It's new. It's based on the book. Oh my gosh, it's glorious. I had never read the book. 16 hundreds. Futile Japan, A simple, brutal, vicious life of it's gorgeous. They had a full society. It's like the 16 hundreds. Wait, Michael Jamin: Where am I watching this? What can I get? Jamie Kaler: It's on FX and on Hulu and Portuguese and Portugal and England are the two powerhouses on the earth, and they are at war, and they're basically fighting for ownership of the east, even though the east are, they're like, wait, we're here. No one's going to own us. So it's all about that, but it's just this beautifully, I mean, it's like art. It's like going to the museum, seeing this story unfold, but people's brains nowadays, some do just riddling. 30 seconds of garbage on TikTok will get a gillion times more views than that. Because I talked to somebody who said, Hey, have you seen Shogun? Someone's like, oh, it just seems slow. And I was like, it's one of the greatest stories of all time. It's one of the bestselling books of all time. It's history and gorgeous and art, and it's beautifully shot. And they're like, ah, boring. I don't have time for that crap. Michael Jamin: We have, right? So what do we do Jamie Kaler: If everything accelerates? There has to be a point where the human brain, it's like when they go, oh, this TV's 4K, and you're like, dude, I'm in my fifties. I can't even see 5K. I can't see any K anymore. It's like so resolution. It doesn't really matter. At some point your brain can't accept Michael Jamin: It. Well, worse than that, so my TVs, I have a nice plasma plasma, but it's probably 15 years old at a cost a fortune when I got it. But the new ones, the resolution's so clear, it kind of looks like you're watching a bad TV show. You know what I'm saying? You watch a expensive movie and it looks like it's bad TV because I'm seeing too much. Jamie Kaler: The human face is not supposed to be seen with that much resolution. You see people and you're like, oh, that dude had a rough night Michael Jamin: Where you Jamie Kaler: Used to be able to hide it, and now you're like, no, no, no, no. Michael Jamin: Right? But then now have you had these conversations with your agent and your managers, or is this just when we were talking about building your social media following, are they telling you this or are you just like, your friends are doing it now? I got to do it too. Jamie Kaler: You mean why try to build this? Well, it's also, listen, it's funny because my wife will give me grief sometimes, and she goes, your stories are too slow. Which is crazy because I'm one of the fastest speakers who's ever lived. Sometimes when I'm working, people go, you need to bring it down a little bit. But on social media, if I don't want to si

1h 5m
02/28/2024

Ep 122 - November 18th Webinar Q&A

On November 18th, I hosted a webinar called "How Professional Screenwriters Create Great Characters", where I talked about how to come up with interesting and unique characters, as well as how tapping into your everyday life interactions with people can help with this. This episode addresses questions you asked in our Q&A session that we didn't have time to answer. There's lots of great info here, make sure you watch. Show NotesA Paper Orchestra on Website: - https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: - https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: - https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin: And why are we rooting for him? We're rooting for this meek man who's going to die soon to make some money for his family, but also to feel like he's alive for the first time in his life because he's just lived this very meek existence. And so that's why we're rooting for him. That's why we like him. And when he makes mistakes, he may go off track, but we hope he comes back. We're still rooting for him. You are listening to What The Hell Is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase and to support me on this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin and you're listening to, what the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Well, today we're doing another q and a from II's free writing webinars, and there's a lot of questions that people had. We couldn't answer 'em all on the end. We ran out of time, and so we're going to address 'em here. But this episode, Phil, I'm here with Phil Hudson. Phil Hudson: What up, Phil? Michael Jamin: Today's episode is brought to you by a paper orchestra, which is my collection of personal essays. It's David Saris meets Neil Simon on sale on my website, michael jamin.com, or you can find it anywhere. Books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, apple Books, all those places. Go get it. Go check it out. It's a fun read. Yeah. Okay. Phil Hudson: Worth checking out all the versions though too. I was just listening to the audio book and we talked about this in your episode about the book itself, but the music cues and the intros, very well done. Very well produced. You're also telling me about, thank you, Phil, how hellacious of a process it was to do it Michael Jamin: To Phil Hudson: The quality you like. Michael Jamin: Yes. Because you only get to put it out once, but yeah. But thank you. So Phil got the audio book, but it's available ebook and print as well, however you consume your written materials. Love it. Alright, Phil, we got some questions. Enough about me. Let's ask me some questions. Phil Hudson: Yeah, let's talk to you some more about you. This is from the November 18th webinar. These are like you said, q and A stuff, and the topic of this webinar was how professional screenwriters create great characters. This was, I think, a first run on this topic. You hadn't done this topic before. Michael Jamin: It could be. Yeah, this was a good one. Yeah, this turned out to be a good one I thought. Phil Hudson: I think so too. We can tell, there's some metrics we can tell in terms of how long people stay, questions that are asked, how long it goes. And I was going to say too, we didn't get to these questions because typically when we first started doing this almost a year ago, February will be a year doing these. It was like 30 minutes of lesson and then it was a bunch of q and a and that has transitioned into about 45 minutes of lesson and then a little bit of q and a where we can get it. And then we even have VIPQ and A now where you can just pay a small fee to join for an hour after and you just talk to people on Zoom and they get to go live and ask you questions and some really, really good questions being asked in that. So if you're interested in attending these webinars, go to michael jamin.com/webinar where you can sign up for that. But then you can also sign up on that page to get into the VIP. If you want to ask Michael directly a question that you have if you Michael Jamin: Can't get to it. So to be clear, the webinars are always free, and if you want to spend extra time with me, that costs you something. But I should also say right now it seems like we have four that we're going to have a rotation, but we may keep adding different topics, but right now we have four good ones, so if you missed it, just sign up and maybe we'll do it again. Correct Phil Hudson: Me if I'm wrong, but I think some of the topics you've come up with have come from the q and a that you do on these topics. How do I overcome? Writer's block are like, I'm really struggling with a character or development. So they kind of incept the idea of like, okay, here's a topic we should go down. So lots of great value there. Alright, well again, just for housekeeping, we do split these up into topics. So we have kind of general topics. We have craft breaking in questions related to your course or the webinar topic and then miscellaneous. So we're going to start with K Craft. I think again, people want to know how to do the job, which I think is helpful. Michael Jamin: Yes. Phil Hudson: So Chad, Chad Siime or cme, I don't know how to pronounce that. Sorry, Chad, Michael Jamin: He doesn't, doesn't know either. Phil Hudson: He probably's probably making it up. Was it like Ari, one of the writers in Taco, they pronounced their name. It was changed at one point. Michael Jamin: Yeah, he says his own name wrong. Poor guy. Phil Hudson: I know someone who was a Heinrich and then when World War II happened, they changed it to Heinrich, Henrik Henrich because they didn't want to be associated. Michael Jamin: Yeah, yeah. Phil Hudson: There you go. Chad asked, do you have examples of writers who have successfully experimented with story structure? What principles did they stick to and where did they deviate? Michael Jamin: I don't really know. I mean, I don't really know if I have a good answer to that. Every time I watch something I go, oh, it falls into the good. I guess there's some really high level writing. Christopher Nolan. Okay. So I would say many of his movies do not fit what I would teach, like Memento, but Forget or Inception. I don't know how many times I've watched it and I still don't understand it. So it's a great movie though. Phil Hudson: Yeah. But I would say that I can see that clearly the writing structure in those. Michael Jamin: You can. Okay. Phil Hudson: Oh yeah, you're definitely an inception too. It's like how do we get on this journey and how are we making decisions and where this stakes, all that stuff. I think it's all, Michael Jamin: A lot of it playing at the timeline, memento when he's playing with it. I don't even know what year it's supposed to Phil Hudson: Be. You're right. But I wonder if that's, it's all there and it's just been split to change and mess with your head a bit, but it's all there, which is why it resonates with people. Michael Jamin: But I guess my advice is like, listen, if you want to operate at the high level, that's great, but let's just get to the professional level first before you become the master Phil Hudson: Level. And Christopher Nolan's a great example of that because he had made a feature before he did Memento, so he had a full feature. He was making short films all the time in film school before he even started experimenting with timelines and things like that. Yeah, okay. Listen to me just arguing. Michael jamin on his own podcast. Michael Jamin: What do I know? You might be Phil Hudson: Right, maybe my head did get big. Kevin and Steve. Alright, Marianne wants to know, you have such a great understanding of human nature. Was there something you've always been good at or did you develop it as a writer? Michael Jamin: No, I didn't. I have a very low emotional iq. My parents are great people, well, great parents, but terrible, low emotional IQs themselves just because that's the household they grew up in. And so it's not a knock on them, it's just like this is the product of your parents. This is how they communicate. And so a lot of this I learned I gained from my wife just from being with her. And then the rest of it, of course, I learned as I became, I became a writer because that's your job as a writer is to really understand people and to get into their shoes. And one of the, it's so funny, I've spoken about this in the past, but my first writing teacher was a guy who really wanted everyone to be in psychoanalysis. That's what he called it because he was so old. They don't even call it like that anymore. It's psychotherapy. But he thought every writer has to be in psychoanalysis because if you don't understand yourself, how could you possibly understand someone else and you or a character? And I think he's absolutely right. I didn't want to believe he was right, but he is right. If you don't understand yourself, and most people do not, and we know this because they go through life unconscious of the people of the damage they're leaving, of the people they're hurting because they're just not even aware of it. And you see it all the time. You could see it on social media, people saying re

42 min
02/21/2024

Ep 121 - "Bones" Executive Producer - Jonathan Collier

On this week's episode, I have Writer/Executive Producer, Jonathan Collier (Bones, The Simpsons, King of the Hill, Monk, and many many more) and we dive into the origins of his career. We also talk about his side hustle and how that came about! Tune in as we have so much more. Show NotesJonathan Collier on X: https://twitter.com/collierjonathan Jonathan Collier IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0171927/ Jonathan Collier on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Collier A Paper Orchestra on Website: - https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible: - https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: - https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptJonathan Collier: It was after season eight, and I thought they were trying to get me to go to King of the Hill, and I had whatever, I had the chance to stay at Simpson's. And I thought, well, there's no way it goes past season 10. Michael Jamin: Yeah. Or any show goes past season 10. Jonathan Collier: It just doesn't happen. And so I left. I thought, I kind of felt badly leaving, but I thought, what's much better? Do you want to show with some like in it Michael Jamin: You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase. And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. All right, everyone, welcome back to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? My next guest is an old colleague of mine, old friend from my days on King of the Hill before I let him talk his name's John Coly or welcome to the show, but let me tell you what he's done. The Sky's credits are pretty incredible. So you sit back and relax. Lemme tell you what he's done. So he wrote on The Simpsons. Okay, we've heard of that show and I'm only giving some of the highlights, some of the highlights, some Scooby dos, which I did not know. King of the Hill Monk, the Good Family Bones, the Good Cop Law and Order. I mean, this guy has done well. He's done a lot. But thank you so much, man, for doing the show. Jonathan Collier: Oh, it's a pleasure, Michael. Thank you for having me. Michael Jamin: Let me tell you about who you are because I remember very clearly walking to my, on my way to my office on King of the Hill. Yours was, I would always walk past you and I would often stop and say hello. Or sometimes I would just sit and you always had a big smile. You're always so happy to greet me and have me there. And I never felt like I was getting in the way you Yeah, come on in. Come on. You're always very kind. Jonathan Collier: I am endlessly in search of distractions. Michael Jamin: Well, I do remember walking past you on days when you're on script and just looking miserable. I Jonathan Collier: Am. Thank you. Nope, that's exactly it. Well observed. I am never more miserable than I am alone in writing. Michael Jamin: But why is that? Do you feel? Jonathan Collier: Oh, it's a horrible thing to do. TV writing is one of the most fun, engaging, productive things you can do if you're with other people. And I love that part of it. And the small portion of the job that relies on you being alone entails, I should say, you being alone and actually writing something without people around is misery for me. Michael Jamin: But is it the comedy part? You also do drama now? Which one is harder? Jonathan Collier: Comedy is harder. Michael Jamin: Okay. But yeah, I would agree with that as well. But is it miserable to write drama as well? Jonathan Collier: I find the process of keeping stuff alive and interesting and propulsive is really, really hard. Michael Jamin: And how do know? You know when it's alive? Jonathan Collier: What, sorry? Michael Jamin: How do you know? Jonathan Collier: How do I know when it's right? Michael Jamin: Yeah. How do you know? Jonathan Collier: Part of what makes it so miserable is you can always second guess yourself. And even more so when there's jokes involved. Michael Jamin: Yeah. Well, for jokes for sure. And what was that transition like for you? I'm amazed that anyone can do it. Jonathan Collier: Oh, I got very lucky. What happened was that King of the Hill was, we got canceled. You remember? It was time. The show got canceled. It was canceled two times. Michael Jamin: We left after the first time. Jonathan Collier: Yeah, left. So it got canceled. And I really realized it was for real when they started moving our furniture out of the office Michael Jamin: Because you were going to squat there. Jonathan Collier: I had every intention of squatting. Michael Jamin: You thought it was all Big bluff until they moved at the furniture. Jonathan Collier: And so that was happening. And I had done comedy for about 17 years at that point. And I didn't love doing for camera comedy. I liked doing animation and there were no real single camera comics, comedies on the air at the time, and I didn't quite know what to do, but I knew I stopped watching comedies. I kind of could feel the sweat on them and the work on them because I worked in so many comedy rooms. And I got really lucky, which is that Andy Breckman, who was running Monk at the time, who created the show, he used to have three guest writers come in every season. And he did that because he felt like he kept him on track. If you came in as a guest to the room in New York, it made him concentrate and work harder and make sure that in five days you would break a story. Michael Jamin: Why? Because people flew in, you mean? Jonathan Collier: Yeah, because the network would fly, the studio would fly you into New York and put you up and they would only keep you there for five days. Michael Jamin: Okay, that's interesting. Jonathan Collier: I got one of those. So I got one of those guest shots. And the other thing I got way I got lucky was Michael Jamin: Wait, but how did you get that guest shot? Jonathan Collier: I got that guest shot because this is embarrassing. My agent at the time who I didn't think was doing enough for me, got me a meeting with Andy Breckman, and I thought it was just one meeting with Andy Breckman, who's a great guy, and I love the show, but who knows if it's going to turn into anything. I fired my agent, moved on to another agent, and then Andy called me up and said, oh, we want you to do this episode a month. Michael Jamin: Right. Jonathan Collier: But there was no, Michael Jamin: But I've already fired my agent. Jonathan Collier: That was done. What happened was that, anyway, Andy used to only hire comedy writers to do guest episodes. Michael Jamin: Why? Jonathan Collier: Because his theory was that he could teach a comedy writer how to write a procedural. He could not teach a procedural writer how to be fun. So anyway, they flew into New York, I was in the room, we broke a story and I wrote it and it went well. The whole thing went well, and I got very lucky again because no one had ever really left the show or been added to it. This was the fourth season and one writer was leaving and Andy offered me the job. So I came in and went on staff the next season. Michael Jamin: How many seasons did you do there? Jonathan Collier: I did two more seasons and then the writer's strike of 2007 happened. And when that happened, I didn't know how long that would go on. Mike and the Good Family was starting up and they got what was called a strike waiver, and there were certain production companies and one was MRC, media Rights Capital, and they made a deal with the WGA, with the Writers Guild that they could do shows that were during the strike and it would not be strike breaking to work on those shows if they agreed to abide by the Wgas terms, the writer's terms. The WGA was using that as a tactic to try to force the studios to, Michael Jamin: And it's funny, they didn't really do that this last strike. Jonathan Collier: No, I don't think it really helped. Michael Jamin: You don't think it helped? Jonathan Collier: I don't know if it did or actually, no, I can't say if it did or not. I thought all I can say is I think this last strike was better run than the first one. I think a lot was learned from the first one. Anyway, I left Monk because I got a job right away rather than being strike. Michael Jamin: Right. Let me ask you that. When you're on Monk and you are with procedural writers who are not comedy writers, when they would pitch something that you and I would call a clam, or if you would pitch it in the room at the Simpson, the King of the Hill, someone would say, right? Was there a lot of that going on? Were you the guy who said, yeah, that's not really a joke? Jonathan Collier: Well, no. At Mon though, you had, first of all, it was comedy writers. It was a small staff and it was four people whose background was comedy, including Andy Breckman, and then one High Conrad, who was just a terrific mystery writer. And he had written something like 200 mystery books. Oh, Michael Jamin: Wow. Jonathan Collier: And the way he got on was that Andy met with him and took him out for lunch and said, look, I love your mystery books, and you have two choices. One is you come on staff or two was I'm just going to steal all your plots anyway. Michael Jamin: Oh wow.

39 min
02/14/2024

Ep 120 - Actress Paula Marshall

On this week's episode, I have actress Paula Marshall (Euphoria, Walker, Gary Unmarried, and many many more) and we dive into the origins of his career. We also talk about how she dealt with being a new mom and working on a sitcom at the same time. There is so much more so make sure you tune in. Show NotesPaula Marshall on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thepaulamarshall/?hl=en Paula Marshall IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005191/ Paula Marshall on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Marshall A Paper Orchestra on Website - https://michaeljamin.com/book A Paper Orchestra on Audible - https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1 A Paper Orchestra on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4 A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestra Free Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/ Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free Join My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletter Autogenerated TranscriptPaula Marshall: But a lot of parents, they go to jobs and then they come home or they don't work at all, and then it's just mom 100% and they're probably exhausted and happy. Some of my friends, I feel like they're like, I'm so glad. Finally I get to whatever. And either they're retiring and they get to go travel and like, no, I'm an actor. I'm looking for a gig, whatever. I don't think actors ever truly retire. I think we don't. I don't. Michael Jamin: You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations and writing, art and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase. And to support me on this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show. Welcome everyone. My next guest is actress Paula Marshall. She has been, I worked with her years ago on a show called Out of Practice, I think it was like 2005. But Paul, before I let you get a word in edgewise, I got to tell everyone, your credits are crazy long, so your intro may take a long time. So I'm going to just give you some of the highlights to remind you of your incredible body of work here. Really these are just the highlights. She works a ton. So well, let's see. I guess we could start with One Life To Live. That might've been your first one. Grapevine Life goes on. Wonder Years Seinfeld. I heard of that one. Perry Mason diagnosis. Murder Wild Oats. I'm skipping here. Nash Bridges. You did a couple Chicago Suns Spin. City Cupid Snoops Sports Night, the Weber Show. It doesn't end. Just shoot Me, which I worked on. I didn't even know you were on that. Maybe I wasn't there. Hitting Hills and Out of Practice, which we did together. Veronica Mars, nip Tuck, shark ca Fornication. You did a bunch of Gary Unmarried House friends with Benefits, the exes CSI, the Mentalist, two and a Half Men Murder in the First Major Crimes. What else have we got here? Goer Gibbons, I dunno what that is. You have to tell me what that is. And then Modern Family Euphoria. You did a bunch of them. Walker. Paula, I'm exhausted and I'm going to steal your joke here. You can because I'm going to say you're Paula Marshall, but you may know me as Carla Gina. That's what used to tell me Carla Paula Marshall: And I know Carla, Michael Jamin: But know Paula Marshall: She's like the younger version of me. Slightly shorter, Michael Jamin: Bigger, bigger. Boop. But you have done so much. I'm going to jump, I'm going to jump into the hardest part. I'm wondering if this is the hardest part for you is being a guest star on a show because you have to jump in with the cast, you have to know the rules and everything. Is that harder? Paula Marshall: Yes, a hundred percent. It's harder when I guest star on any shows, if I haven't seen the show, I watch three or four on YouTube just so I know who's who and the vibe and the energy. When I guest star on Modern Family I their last season and some could say I canceled the show by being there. I've been called a show killer Michael Jamin: Before. I remember You don't let Right. Paula Marshall: I still have not let that go. I like to say I've just worked on so many different shows at its peak and then it died anyway. It's hard because they're all in a flow and depending on the other actors, how cool they are to kind of throw the ball at you. Michael Jamin: But do you have to identify who's the alpha dog on set? Is that what your plan is? It's Paula Marshall: Pretty clear right away. Really? Yeah. I mean besides whoever's first on the call sheet, I remember one of the producers of Snoop's, David Kelly's first big bomb. That was me. Michael Jamin: It was a sure thing what happened? Paula Marshall: You know what? I'm not sure. Well, when it was supposed to be a comedy quickly turned into a drama, it was not great. But as one of the producers of Snoop said, you don't fuck with the first person on the call sheet. You don't f**k with him. And so you identify that person and depending, it's funny because I've worked with so many great people and so many assholes too. Like David Deney. Damn, is he cool? He's so nice. When I worked on fornication with him, he set a tone for just the set, the crew, the actors, this freedom just to try things. And I remember during my, it was like the first day naked throwing up, Michael Jamin: Wait, were you nervous? Why were you throwing up? Paula Marshall: Hello? Of course. But I Michael Jamin: Remember you're never nervous, Paul, let me tell you who you were. I'm totally nervous. No, you're the most self-assured person probably I've ever worked with. You're very confident. Paula Marshall: Thank you. I'm acting Michael Jamin: Acting. Paula Marshall: But California occasion, it was my first day onset naked, fake f*****g. And I remember standing there, it was yesterday, and either tweaking you and touching you up. And I say to everyone, what's amazing, what I'll do for $2,900 when a strike is pending? It was the writer's strike way back in the day. And I remember getting this part on fornication and I'm like to all the girls in the audition room, when we used to have auditions in rooms with other people, I looked around, I'm like, we're not going to really have to be naked. We're not those type of actresses. And they're like, no, no, no. And I'm like standing there. Yeah, yeah. I was naked. Michael Jamin: Was that your first time in a show being naked? I mean Paula Marshall: Topless Michael Jamin: Show Paula Marshall: On a show? Michael Jamin: Yes. Because you were in a model, I'm sure as a model, you're doing wardrobe changes all the time. Paula Marshall: I used to model. I was naked a few things back in the day. Michael Jamin: So were you really nervous about it? I mean, I imagine you would be, but Paula Marshall: Standing there naked is one thing. You just kind of have to dive in the pool, in the cold, cold pool and let it go because you got to put on the confident jacket, I guess I obviously wore a lot around you, but I mean it's more uncomfortable, the fake sex scenes, it's more technical and awkward. It's just but nervous. I dunno. Yeah, you're excited. But I'm also excited when I walk on stage on a sitcom before, if I'm not already in the set, when they start rolling, I'm backstage. How's my hair? Shit, how am I doing? Okay? I get hyped up until you do it once and people laugh and you're like, oh, Michael Jamin: Okay. Are you worried about going up on your lines at all? Is that at all you're thinking about? Paula Marshall: Yes, especially now. Oh shit, my memory. It's just that prevagen, I'm going to look it up later, but yeah, you do. But if you in a sitcom situation, we run it, we rehearse it all week. Still Michael Jamin: The lines are changing all week. That's all I Paula Marshall: Know. But they're changing all week. But then you run it and you drill it on TV shows like euphoria or whatever. Yeah, you run it. But then again, they don't really change the lines at all. But yeah, you were a little bit, but then you got a great script supervisor that you're like, I'm up. And then they say it and then you go back and you do it. But yeah, always, I'm always really nervous until maybe the second take Michael Jamin: Of any, the hardest thing it seems to me is just like, okay, you're naked and you have to forget that there's all these people there. You have Paula Marshall: To Michael Jamin: Completely, it's almost like you're crazy to have to be able to forget that, Paula Marshall: Michael, when you paid $2,900. That's right. I was shocked. That's all you get for being naked. Yeah, you do. You are nervous. But I don't know. I was 40 then, so I looked pretty good naked, although I only had four days notice. Back then we didn't have ozempic, so I was like, okay, I can't, no salt, no bread. And I remember in that shot that the camera guy, they decided in the moment, Hey, can you walk over to David? And then bent over, he's on the bed and then kiss him. I'm like, well, that depends. What's your lens there? You got there? And I'm like, how wide is your lens? And he looked at me and I'm like, I'm a photographer. I like taking pictures. So I know. And I'm like, so I'm going to bend over with my white ass and I had four days notice on this and my ass is just going to be in the pretty much. And you're like, okay, I could do it. But you hope for body makeup. I don't know. Don't you think I had any, I should have demanded body Michael Jamin: Makeup. And this was probably even before there were, what do they call them now? Intimacy Paula Marshall: Coordinators? Michael Jamin: Yes. Ri

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4.9

out of 5

112 Ratings

Listen to those who know!

11/30/2023

PGuyot

I love this podcast! Michael Jamin is the real deal - a working professional screenwriter - and his podcast is all about the truth when it comes to Hollywood and screenwriting. Jamin has guests on who are - guess what? - working professional writers and producers! This isn’t some podcast by a wannabe who has some guest on who finished in the top 20% of the Barstow Script Contest & Bake Sale. These are real Hollywood professionals sharing what it’s really like and how best to make it in this tough business. But here’s the other thing - the podcast is hilarious! There’s nothing better than hearing comedy professionals together and Jamin and his guests make this as entertaining as it is informative. Simply one of the best podcasts on screenwriting and Hollywood that’s out there!
Ivy League Film School level writing course for free

09/20/2023

Nedwins

NYU’s Tisch would kill to have someone like Michael teaching Comedy Writing 101… which is essentially what this veteran of the TV writing world has been putting out for years now, for free.
Great show

06/22/2023

kimR_Colorado

I’m not even a writer but Michael is a great host/interviewer and the people he talks to are so interesting! Thanks for the show:)
So helpful!

05/03/2023

MzGinaG

I thoroughly enjoy this entertaining and informative pod from a thoughtful and fun screenwriting pro!

Michael Jamin has been a television writer/showrunner since 1996. He interviews professional writers, artists, and performers about living their creative lives, inspiring others to do the same.

Creator

Michael Jamin
Years Active

2021 - 2024
Episodes

133
Rating

Explicit
Show Website

What The Hell Is Michael Jamin Talking About?

What The Hell Is Michael Jamin Talking About?

Episodes

Ep 127 - Artist Manager Dave Rose

Ep 126 - Actress Cynthia Mann Jamin

Ep 125 - December 30th Webinar Q&A

Ep 124 - December 8th Webinar Q&A

Ep 123 - "My Boys" Actor Jamie Kaler

Ep 122 - November 18th Webinar Q&A

Ep 121 - "Bones" Executive Producer - Jonathan Collier

Ep 120 - Actress Paula Marshall

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