“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

HR Heretics
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com

  1. Adapting to Startup Reality and Having More Impact

    9小时前

    Adapting to Startup Reality and Having More Impact

    Nolan and Kelli talk about the culture shock of moving from corporate behemoths to the startup wild west. They share battle-tested wisdom on surviving the transition - from mastering the art of founder relationships to embracing the (sometimes brutal) transparency demands of startup employees. Along the way, they reveal how corporate luxuries like two-hour gym breaks get replaced by the exhilarating but exhausting reality of building something from scratch. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:30) Understanding Startup Culture(03:26) Founder Relationship Importance(03:52) Pre-Start Relationship Building(05:35) Importance of Being "One with the People"(07:04) Danger of Being Viewed as the Enemy(08:25) Startup Employees Being Smart & Critical(09:19) Connecting with Early Employees(09:30) Sponsor: Metaview(11:01) Understanding "Sacred Cows"(12:28) Tactical Advice - Meeting Everyone(12:57) Goals of Meeting Everyone(14:00) Context Switching Exhaustion(14:25) Energy Management Importance(15:24) Non-Negotiable Self-Care(16:00) Wrap Up This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    16 分钟
  2. The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People

    5天前

    The Art of Not Getting Fired for Not Firing People

    Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets. They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no." *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics RELATED PODCAST: KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro(01:17) Offer of Support for the California Wildfires(03:44) Dear Heretics(04:00) Question on Mandated Attrition Targets(05:15) Contextualizing Performance Targets(06:32) Genesis of these Performance Discussions(07:00) Examples of Poor Implementation: Tesla's RIFs(08:03) Sponsor: Metaview(10:05) RIFs versus Performance(10:42) How to respond to a CEO who says fire the bottom 5%(12:40) The Importance of Defining 'Why'(13:23) CEOs and the complexity of execution(14:00) Reframing the Problem for CEO's(14:31) The tactical anxiety of HR leaders(15:42) Pre and Post Pandemic Environments(16:23) The danger of being the "no" person/team(17:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    18 分钟
  3. The Anti-Org Chart: Why Colin Zima Traded HR for Chaos (and Won)

    6天前

    The Anti-Org Chart: Why Colin Zima Traded HR for Chaos (and Won)

    Colin Zima, former Looker exec turned Omni CEO, reveals how he runs a 65-person Series A startup with no HR or G&A team. Learn why he believes in minimal bureaucracy, why founders should do the "dirty work," and what really breaks after a Google acquisition. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH COLIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Colin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinzima Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Omni: https://omni.co/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction(01:44) No G&A at Omni(04:50) Learning by Doing(09:10) Maximizing Roles (10:23) The Need for G&A (12:53) Sponsor: Metaview(14:49) Benefits of Doing the Work(15:32) Hiring a People Leader(18:19) Contractors vs FTEs(20:39) In-Office vs Remote (23:08) Homogenous Culture (26:25) Recruiting for Non-Networked People (29:31) Performance Management (32:24) Sales Ops and Performance (34:47) Unique Recruiting at Omni (37:00) Looker Acquisition by Google(42:24) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    43 分钟
  4. Big Tech Alumni: Help or Hindrance? with Bryan Power

    1月2日

    Big Tech Alumni: Help or Hindrance? with Bryan Power

    From Square to Nextdoor, Bryan Power reveals why copying Big Tech's playbook might be your biggest mistake. Find out why Square banned hiring from the payments industry while building a payments company. Discover how conventional wisdom about senior talent can become startup kryptonite and why the safe choice isn't always the smart choice. Bryan Power is a veteran Silicon Valley People executive who's shaped talent strategy at tech giants like Google and Yahoo, built Square from 150 employees, and now leads People at Nextdoor where he champions innovative approaches to hiring and leadership development. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Bryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:48) Nextdoor Leadership Transition (02:10) Founder's Mentality & Return (04:03) Six Years at Nextdoor - Career Journey (05:29) Growth vs. Turnaround Experience (07:59) The False Signal of Company Logos (10:29) Square's Early Days & Recruiting (12:25) Leadership Training at Square (15:07) Sponsor: Metaview (17:01) Culture and Training Truths (21:30) Innovation vs. Industry Experience (25:59) The Pattern Matching Trap (29:39) Talent Density Discussion (33:58) Performance Management & Up-leveling (40:34)) Big Company vs. Startup Dynamics (43:07) Aligning with Different Leadership Styles (47:14) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    48 分钟
  5. The Very Best of Heretics 2024

    2024/12/31

    The Very Best of Heretics 2024

    Happy New Year from HR Heretics! Together, we've built something extraordinary: a community of forward-thinking HR professionals who dare to question the status quo, welcome straight talk, and thrive on healthy debate. In today's special year-end episode, we're sharing some of our top moments, most controversial takes, and the conversations that simply blew our minds with new approaches to people, hiring, managing, and shaping the culture of high performing teams. Think of this as your ultimate HR Heretics highlight reel – where spicy takes meet practical wisdom. So whether you're a longtime heretic or just discovering us today, buckle up. Come January 2nd 2025, we'll be back with new guests. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics — KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — LINKS: Molly Graham: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3gegNOB1RSWuKofaWcjYWS?si=AGhfhyhgRsu8LSUlN7wtjg Tomas Tungusz: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1B4aYWnV9pJkcQuCgq1tTy?si=d-iRpEMrQX62JwiKQi9nGg Vijay Pendakur: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ccUUyNPVUjBEc3V9h1SEf?si=LLhIXfbkSMaWaIyPnfHmfA Patty McCord: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nHxmrGnGFJ23ropYPc4YE?si=9WzJ1VdnQjS4vlS7kbBy8A Andy Price: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2LmfYrgz58M1bjU4kj8t7i?si=UpCAZwNkR_SVg-29AY-_Zg Colleen McCreary: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0WuLzUYeDaPIsOTbtTCZFD?si=EnzuH3v-S9SO1zTCBvBwng Brett McQueener: https://open.spotify.com/episode/666pMzHni919QMMhe4NPWQ?si=vRyeGi3XSEuHaEjKZQFVew Matt Oberhart: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6lYnLlZrBGNZOdw97NoElB?si=vwJTyZp4SIyQzgDQY6eOFA LJ Brock: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Jj5U59L703HKVZNg9QJef?si=5Oz5FpnDT9yHO2YekmY9jw DHH: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6AD2rSoIi9gF0WlZ3gqoz3?si=Km774GZJSraHW4ljuI0f-g Peterson Conway: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5jQ2TsSMMmlWuJ3vAayHoR?si=SdnrYwnZQQSo4f5tR2XLfw -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:15) Molly Graham (00:53) Tomas Tungusz (02:03) Vijay Pendakur (03:15) Patti McCord (04:44) Andy Price (05:50) Colleen McCreary (06:41) Brett McQueener (07:49)  Matt Oberhart (08:44) LJ Brock (09:46) DHH (10:56) Peterson Conway (12:21) Nolan's Best (14:14) Kelli's Best (15:02) Wrap (15:08) Sponsor: Metaview This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    17 分钟
  6. The Year End Special: Personal L’s, Big Wins, and Why Headcount is Dead

    2024/12/20

    The Year End Special: Personal L’s, Big Wins, and Why Headcount is Dead

    It’s been quite a year! Kelli and Nolan bare it all in their 2024 wrap-up. Get their must-read books, binge-worthy podcasts, and raw personal journeys - including Kelly's identity crisis and Nolan's toughest year yet. Plus, hear why 2025 might be the year to go 'risk on' and why your company's headcount could be holding you back. No fluff, just real talk from two HR leaders who've been there. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Reflections on 2024 (07:24) Best of 2024 - Books (11:13) Best of 2024 - Podcasts (14:47) Sponsor: Metaview (16:20) The Real Talk: Our Raw 2024 Stories (19:16) Bold Predictions and Why 2025 Will Hit Different (28:45) That’s a Wrap 🎁 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    29 分钟
  7. Striking at the Heart of the Future of Work | AI Corner with Siadhal Magos on 11x AI

    2024/12/18

    Striking at the Heart of the Future of Work | AI Corner with Siadhal Magos on 11x AI

    Are digital workers coming for your job? In this episode, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos— our resident AI expert— breaks down the rise of AI-powered SDRs and what it means for the future of work. From 11x.ai's $75M raise to replace human sales reps, to broader implications for recruiting and tech roles, discover why VCs are betting big on AI labor. This is a candid discussion about job displacement, productivity gains, and why getting your hands dirty with AI might be your best career move. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Siadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — CHECK OUT: Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:00) 11x.ai and Their Products (Alice & Mike) (02:03) Discussion of VCs' Interest in AI Labor Market (03:43) Labor vs Software Market Size Comparison (05:37) Evolution of Software Sales Models (07:18) Current State and Limitations of AI SDRs (08:15) Discussion of AI Job Displacement (09:01) Types of Roles Most Affected by AI (12:42) Historical Context of Automation in Tech (14:12) Future of Work and AI Integration (16:39) Sponsor: Metaview (17:59) Company Spending and Hiring Philosophy (20:00) Future of Recruiting and AI Integration (23:21) Historical Job Evolution and Future Opportunities (25:15) Importance of Hands-on AI Experience (26:24) Impact of AI on Engineering Productivity (27:05) AI's Effect on Recruiter Efficiency (27:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    29 分钟
  8. Why Messy is Good and Structure is Overrated

    2024/12/13

    Why Messy is Good and Structure is Overrated

    Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine. — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:21) Dear Heretics Question: Cross-Functional HR Collaboration (01:11) The Missing Link in HR Teams (02:42) DoorDash's GM Model & Early Learnings (04:36) The Weekly Business Review Magic (05:13) Building One Cohesive HR Experience (07:09) The Color Gradient Approach to HR (08:01) Sponsor: Metaview (09:42) Pod Structure: SWAT Teams for People Ops (10:38) Embracing Regular Reorgs (11:44) Why Messy HR is Good HR (12:29) Mobility as a Silo-Breaker (13:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    14 分钟
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关于

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com

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