Conversations in Clean Amphora Solutions

We talk with Penny Tompkins and James Lawley about the Developing Group, which was established in 2001 as a regular forum for the exploration of new ideas in the field of all things Clean.







The group meets 4-6 times a year and it was a special privilege to sit down with Penny and James during one of the sessions this year.







For more information about the Developing Group, see the Clean Language web site here https://www.cleanlanguage.co.uk/articles/categories/The-Developing-Group/







For those who can’t make the Developing Group meetings in London, Penny and James also run an online event, Inside Clean.

We talk with Svetlana Shapovaliants about her Clean journey, Clean Language in Russia, and the origins of #DramaFree.







This episode was recorded after we attended a Systemic Modelling 3-day rolling programme in West Kirby, delivered by Caitlin Walker and Svetlana.







You can find Svetlana’s company Ancora Impario at https://ancoraimparo.ru/

We talk with Caitlin Walker about Clean Scoping – preparing for a Systemic Modelling engagement.







The course Caitlin references is no longer available.































Transcript







Simon

Hi welcome to conversations in clean from Amphora Solutions. I’m Simon Coles. And with me is Catherine Daley. In this episode we’ll be talking with Caitlin Walker. Caitlin Hello What’s going on.







Caitlin

Well we’ve just unexpectedly I mean we had this podcast planned and unexpectedly I was given an opportunity to go and do some live clean scoping and Catherine’s come along with me. And so we thought let’s switch the original material and let’s talk about what’s just happened. Which is clean scoping with a new client.







Simon

So just before we dive in then what’s clean scoping?







Caitlin

So clean scoping is a term that I use to describe what I do and when I very first meet a client and before we go in and facilitate cleanly the group and teach them systemic modelling or use systemic modelling to solve a problem. So clean scoping is the kinds of behaviours and activities that go on when I’m trying to work out what would the client like to have happen; and whether I think that this approach will be useful, acceptable for that client. So it’s partly me scoping their needs but also me deciding whether or not I’d like to work with them.







Simon

So just to refresh my memory then, the many many years ago that we first met. Did you do clean scoping on me and what?







Caitlin

Yes so on that first telephone call I was stood in the room behind me. You were down in Oxfordshire. Yeah. And I’m listening to what you’ve got to say, what you’d like to have happen and listen to the way that you’re talking about it, the way that you’re talking about your staff. And so as I listen I’m coding referring back to our last podcast and coding not just what you’d like but also your attitude to the people involved and I’m working out what do I need to do with you, what could I do with them. And I’m holding it all very lightly so that I then when I meet them I work out whether what you thought needed to have happened actually is what needs to happen.







Catherine

And when you’re holding it really lightly. What would I be seeing or hearing when you’re holding it really lightly.







Caitlin

Do you know I’m not sure what you’d see or hear. I don’t know that you could tell a difference because what I’d be doing is listening to what you say, accepting it. If you’re speaking in inference I’ll be asking, OK, so, when they’re not engaged what do you see or hear that lets you know they’re not engaged? So I’m not challenging you, just accepting it. That’s the inference what’s the evidence. I’ll always be asking for impact, so when they’re not engaged, and you know that they’re not engaged because they come in just before they have to start and they leave bang on the minute that the day ends for you that they’re not engaged what’s the impact.

Well I don’t trust them I don’t want to grow the company with them in it like that. Ah, OK so I’m holding it lightly I’m going, OK, that is what they’ve seen and heard they call it this. That’s the impact for them. But that’s not necessarily the truth. It’s just their perception at this moment. So I don’t think it’s still going to be true when we’ve done a bit of wo...

We sit down with Shaun Hotchkiss. Shaun talks about his time with David Grove, his use of Clean Language in psychotherapy and coaching, and of course, the Whirly Gig.







You can see more of Shaun on his company’s web site, What Would You Like to Have Happen?

We hear more about the emergence of Coding as part of the Systemic Modelling landscape.

We talk with Caitlin Walker of Training Attention about Systemic Modelling, Drama Free, Clean Stance, and how to use Clean Language safely.