talkPOPc's Podcast Dena Shottenkirk

2:00 They explore the uncertainty surrounding censorship and the understanding of the First Amendment.

5:00 They acknowledge that artists often express political views through their work and note differences in how art is supported in different countries, such as Germany's grants for techno clubs. The conversation touches on the challenges faced by artists in discussing sensitive topics like Palestine and Israel within certain cultural contexts.

8:00 They discuss the distinction between government actions that limit speech and actual censorship. The conversation contrasts the situation in the United States, where artists have more independence from state support, with that in Germany, where state support plays a larger role.

12:00 They discuss the complexities surrounding free speech in private establishments, particularly in the context of DJs expressing political views regarding Palestine and Israel. The conversation raises questions about the boundaries of free speech in private spaces versus public areas, with a specific focus on where the First Amendment applies.

15:00 They discuss the nuanced nature of free speech and the distinction between protected speech and speech that incites violence. While speech is generally considered a safe exchange of ideas, there are instances where speech can transition into action and potentially lead to violence, which is when it becomes criminalized.

18:00 They discuss the level of respect for free speech and diverse viewpoints at Brooklyn College. While there's room for improvement in considering opposing viewpoints, they believe that people generally maintain politeness and refrain from being confrontational, though there's a call for a deeper understanding of the other side's perspectives.

22:00 Dena emphasizes the importance of actively listening to opposing viewpoints, drawing on John Stuart Mill's perspective. Mill suggests that when engaging with the other side, three outcomes are possible: realizing one's own mistake, finding a compromise, or affirming one's own beliefs.

25:00 They reflect on the changing nature of libraries, expressing nostalgia for the days when they were spaces of focused learning and discovery. They lament the shift towards digital devices, noting how people are now absorbed in their own worlds rather than engaging with the richness of books.

28:00 The conversation reflects on the importance of understanding and engaging with people from different perspectives, even if they hold opposing political beliefs. They highlight the significance of focused listening and practicing conversations as essential skills for fostering understanding and unity in society.

30:00 They suggest that engaging in conversations with others could be more beneficial than protesting or organizing, as it allows for meaningful dialogue rather than feeling like shouting into the void. And they express hope that their conversation may lead to further discussions and exchanges of ideas.


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1:00 They discuss the significance of the arts in facilitating free speech and expression.

5:00 They delve into the complexities of humor and artistic expression in navigating sensitive topics.

8:00 They ponder the concept of censorship in theater, admitting uncertainty about its bounds as they haven't experienced it firsthand. However, they suggest that modern theater may offer more freedom for marginalized voices to share their stories.

10:00 They discuss how individuals edit the information they consume, choosing which ideas to allow themselves to engage with. This selective intake of information, influenced by the online dialogue regarding the validity of certain facts and perspectives, is seen as a form of censorship in the modern era.

13:00 Dena suggests that this lack of recognition of what it takes to acquire knowledge contributes to the difficulty in establishing facts. Despite these challenges, she finds value in engaging people in conversation to collate diverse opinions and perspectives on topics like censorship.

16:00 They highlight the value of collective engagement in fostering a sense of unity and collaboration, whether in a theatrical performance or an educational setting.

19:00 They draw parallels between engaging in conversation and sharing an experience in theater, both involving the idea of coming together to exchange viewpoints and connect on a deeper level.

22:00 They explore the difference between being involved in an experience versus merely observing it, and highlight the freedom and lack of defense associated with being a viewer rather than an active participant.


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1:00 They discuss a recent revisitation of a censorship project in light of challenges faced on American campuses. Malka encounters a family member who mentioned students leaving Brooklyn College due to feeling attacked during Palestinian demonstrations, highlighting the diversity of perspectives and experiences among students. 

5:00 They discuss the lack of genuine listening and the prevalence of posturing and defensiveness in conversations, both among students and faculty. 

10:00 They discuss the issue of feeling unsafe in discussions, particularly regarding tensions between different perspectives.

14:00 They discuss the balance between academic freedom and maintaining a safe learning environment. There's a consideration of where the line is drawn between free expression and feeling unsafe on campus, concerning CUNY's Henderson Rules.

16:00 They discuss the discomfort often associated with new ideas and the challenge of fostering open-mindedness in students. While acknowledging the importance of broadening perspectives and encouraging students to articulate diverse viewpoints, there's concern about the prevalence of self-censorship and entrenched beliefs. 

19:00 There's recognition of the complexity of discussing sensitive topics, such as Israel and Gaza, in the classroom, which can trigger emotions and open discussions about other traumas, such as those experienced by black women. The conversation highlights the challenge of navigating discussions around various social issues and the need for sensitivity and inclusivity in classroom dialogue.



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Twitter: @talkpopc
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Support the Show.
Twitter: @talkpopc
Instagram: @talkpopc

Timestamps:
00:10: Introductions with Victoria01:50: What does Art do for people? What's the point? Opening a door to philosophy/psychology. Sharing experiences between nations perhaps. 03:55: Art starts in a place, in a culture and is a representation of that. Art spreading allows movement from culture to culture. A transference of knowledge. But now, Art is different than it used to be07:25: American Art, German Art. Do nationalistic identities of Art still exist? Globalization's impact on Art. Peacemaking might not make so much sense if the Art is all the same. 09:45: Western Art and the use of non-Western cultures. Is Art universally communicative but in a not-so-good way?12:45: Rootless individuals, if that's true, what function does Art still have? Where do we go from here? Should we pivot inwards toward traditions?16:00: Art as a marketplace. Perhaps that shouldn't be the goal. Humanist over mercantile goals. 17:00: Religion/Art, do humans have the capacity/responsibility to create in an analogous way to God?Support the Show.
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00 - 6:55 Vincent and Levi debate whether there are kinds of speech that one should censor. Levi argued that censorship should be avoided in general, not just of government speech but of social speech. After all, people are too sensitive to censorship to ask questions. Vincent acknowledged that censorship is a hard topic these days, citing neo-Nazi rhetoric as an example.
6:57 - 23:13 Vincent and Levi discuss the influence of social media. Vincent believes that social media is now international and even global, and everything happens very quickly. Levi agreed and believed that people in different social conditions would have different ideas, censorship cannot stop people from thinking but talking. He believes that what people need today is "the third space," a psychological term that means giving people space to change their minds and reject past ideas instead of always sticking to the ideas they had ten years ago. therefore, people need to slow down and focus, learn from real-life conversations rather than social media, and value feedback from real people rather than Twitter friends.
23:15 - 32:05 Levi mentioned his favorite ship theory, which is to gradually replace parts of the old ship and combine the replaced parts of the old ship into a new ship, so the old ship and the new ship may be difficult to identify but are never the same. He compared people to ships, and thoughts are parts, "After traveling around the world, we are the original ship, but it does not mean that all parts are the same. The key is how to update your thoughts, and behavior gives people the opportunity to change ideas." He likes how old Disney movies are mentioned at the beginning as being "not representative of today's culture" because they respect the original and separate it from today's values.
32:07 -61:40 Levi came up with the idea that people are reluctant to engage in conversation because it's unsafe to talk in some places, and humor is a great way to solve complex problems, just like Tom chasing Jerry can always make people laugh. Vincent agrees but thinks humor isn't the only way. Then they talked about why people like comedy characters, the possibility of the film Step Brothers remake, and why some comedy shows are so popular, all with unexpected parts and combinations in common.
61: 45- 73:44 Vincent summarized the content of this conversation and expressed his personal reflections: Expanding into new conversations is difficult but always rewarding in the end, and personal conversations often turn into larger conversations.


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