At Work with The Ready

Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin
  • 4.7 (22)
  • MANAGEMENT
  • UPDATED FORTNIGHTLY

Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin have helped teams around the world adopt more modern ways of working and on At Work with The Ready they’re sharing the inside scoop with you, too. Whether you’re struggling with a carousel of ineffective meetings, annual strategy sessions that go nowhere, or decision-making churn that never ceases, they’ve seen it all and are here to help. In each episode, they'll break down common workplace challenges and show you the moves—both big and small—to start making real, lasting change. (Formerly “Brave New Work” with Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans)

  1. 44. Forget ROI: The Ethical Case for Org Design

    49 MIN AGO

    44. Forget ROI: The Ethical Case for Org Design

    Most org design conversations get forced through a narrow funnel: prove the ROI, justify the spend, make the numbers work. But if work is something most people can’t opt out of—and where we spend a huge chunk of our attention and waking lives—then “it pays off” feels like a painfully small standard. This week, Rodney and Sam explore the ethical case for organizational design. They move beyond spreadsheets and profit metrics to ask bigger questions about leadership, power, transparency, compensation, and the human impact of broken systems. What do organizations owe the people who work inside them? Is better workplace design a moral responsibility — not just a financial strategy? -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: r/antiwork Mihaly Csikzentmihalyi and Flow Target CEO comp package (note: New CEO’s comp package is roughly $16m, vs over $70m for the prior CEO in 2020) triple bottom line John Rawls and A Theory of Justice 00:00 Check-In: What’s your energy like right now? 04:04 Divorcing doing what’s “good work” from ROI 08:16 A “good” experience is the exception rather than the rule 10:06 Protecting yourself isn’t “selling out” 15:41 Spending our attention on worthy things 21:35 Leadership vs. worker power disparity is broken 27:31 Ethically designed companies never are publicly traded 31:07 Principles and values of ethical orgs 40:35 Joy at work shouldn’t be nickled and dimed 44:35 Idea 1: Don’t accept performative change initiatives 47:17 Idea 2: Audit your existing principles and values 48:35 Idea 3: Don’t let leadership gaslight you into conforming 50:33 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a friend Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    52 min
  2. AUA: Can You Change an Org When Leadership Doesn’t See the Problem?

    16 FEB · BONUS

    AUA: Can You Change an Org When Leadership Doesn’t See the Problem?

    When the people at the center of power feel well-served by the current system, how do you create change? This week’s listener question gets at a frustrating reality: sometimes the OS is optimized for the very people you’d need to convince. The business is growing, shareholders are happy, and the executives at the top don’t feel the friction you’re experiencing. Add geography, hierarchy, and distance from decision-makers, and it can feel impossible to generate momentum from the edges. In this mini AUA episode, Rodney and Sam get honest about what’s actually within your control, and when it’s worth accepting that you won’t move the center—and when it’s smarter to redirect your energy toward the surface area you can influence. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    8 min
  3. 43. Dual Transformation Is The Future...And Nobody's Prepared

    9 FEB

    43. Dual Transformation Is The Future...And Nobody's Prepared

    Most organizations are built to do exactly what they do…and that’s the problem. When a core business starts to decay due to disruption, automation, or shifting customer demand, the instinct is to double down on efficiency, cost cutting, and short-term fixes. But that focus often crowds out the harder, riskier work of building what comes next. Nearly a decade ago, Dual Transformation offered a clear and compelling framework for this dilemma, yet nobody seems to be actually doing it. In this episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack why dual transformations are so rare, why it’s even harder than it sounds, and why it matters more than ever in an AI-shaped economy. They dig into the tensions between “business A” (the core) and “business B” (the future), the funding and operating system traps that kill new growth, and practical moves leaders and internal change agents can make to actually pull of two transformations at once instead of just talking about it. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Type One vs Type Two fun Enneagram 7: AWWTR Ep. 33 with Liz Orr Ulysses (book) Dual Transformation (book) Clayton Christensen and disruptive innovation taxi and uber disruption Eisenhower matrix "Squirrel" Sam's manifesto 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s some type two fun you’ve had recently? 04:29 What is Dual Transformation and why now? 13:27 Sounds simple, yet deceptively hard 21:05 The 3 crisis points of a dual transformation 27:12 Recognizing when you’re in a dying business 30:57 Engineering a dual transformation from the inside out 37:24 Navigating the emotions of the dying business 39:14 Idea 1: Weekly feedback routines with customers 43:07 Idea 2: Import as little as possible from the old company 45:59 Idea 3: Write the manifesto for both businesses 47:29 Bonus Idea: Read Dual Transformation! 48:26 Wrap up Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    50 min
  4. AUA: Can Layoffs Really Reduce Bureaucracy?

    2 FEB · BONUS

    AUA: Can Layoffs Really Reduce Bureaucracy?

    While many organizations claim they’re cutting red tape, the underlying drivers often look more like cost pressure, market correction, or AI anxiety dressed up as structural reform. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam unpack the recent wave of layoffs framed as efforts to “reduce bureaucracy”—and why that explanation deserves some skepticism. They explore when reducing org depth can be the right move, why boom-and-bust hiring cycles create hidden work, and what companies would actually do differently if bureaucracy reduction were the real goal. Mentioned references: layoffs at Amazon layoffs in consulting layoffs at UPS "org debt" Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at podcast@theready.com -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    6 min
  5. 42. The Top 3 Skills Change Agents Need in 2026

    26 JAN

    42. The Top 3 Skills Change Agents Need in 2026

    Want to build skills like this to help your team succeed in 2026? ⁠Learn about our Capability Catalyst program⁠. Enterprise change is getting harder, not easier—and in 2026, “having the right ideas” isn’t enough to move transformation. You need personal capability that lets you see what’s really happening, design with real users, and move groups through hard conversations without turning everything into theater. Good intentions and smart frameworks may have worked in the past, but what got us here won’t get us where we need to go. In this episode, Rodney and Sam dive deep on the three most useful transformation enabling skills for the coming year, and share practical ways for how to level up your capability toolkit to thrive in our current pace of change. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Sam's teaching metacognition Bloom's taxonomy "MG" - McChrystal Group situational awareness "the balcony" The Mom Test The Future of HR Matt Basford "business model fit chart" "Henry Ford quote" Liberating Structures 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s good right now? 04:09 The Pattern 05:49 Skill 1: Metacognitive awareness 10:16 Reframing your interactions and experiences 15:57 Building your metacognition skills 21:05 Skill 2: User-Centered Design and Feedback 28:45 User feedback is not a one time activity 34:34 Skill 3: Expert facilitation 39:39 Real skilled facilitation is mostly invisible 43:03 Lots of work happens outside the room 50:08 Leveling up as a facilitator 52:30 Wrap up: Leave the show a review and share with a friend Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    54 min
  6. AUA: How To Design a Startup OS From Scratch?

    19 JAN · BONUS

    AUA: How To Design a Startup OS From Scratch?

    Starting a company with a blank slate sounds like a dream—but it’s also a trap. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam respond to a listener question about how to design an organizational operating system from scratch, without inheriting all the baggage of traditional management. They argue for resisting the urge to over-design early, letting real tension (not theory) drive structure, and focusing on a few foundational practices that scale. From operating rhythms and Kanban boards to experimentation and “sky sensing,” this episode breaks down what’s actually worth putting in place early—and what’s better left until it hurts. Mentioned references: "op rhythm": BNW Ep. 118 "strategy": AWWTR Ep. 2 "experimentation": AWWTR Ep. 38 "retrospectives": BNW Ep. 10 with Jordan Husney Kanban board The Ready's Experiment Proposal Template "The Sky" from Depthfinding Mia Wise Schedule a Sky Session with us! Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at podcast@theready.com -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    11 min
  7. 41. Why Your AI Strategy Stalled and How To Get Moving with Greg Shove

    12 JAN

    41. Why Your AI Strategy Stalled and How To Get Moving with Greg Shove

    Enterprise AI adoption is still stuck in the teens and the gap between the hype and the reality is getting harder to ignore. People are finding pockets of productivity, but they’re often keeping the gains to themselves, worried that “using AI well” is just speed-running their way into a layoff. Meanwhile, many leaders treat it like another piece of software without touching the messier truth: AI changes how work actually happens, and it doesn’t care about your org chart, your approval chains, or your performance theater. In this episode, Rodney sits down with Section CEO Greg Shove to name what’s really blocking adoption and what it takes to break through. They talk about AI as “co-intelligence”, why most “AI layoffs” are PR cover, and the non-negotiables for real transformation. They also get into how to build a robust AI strategy for 2026, Section’s own AI disruption, and why the next era may be dominated by super companies built around small human teams + a fleet of agents. Learn more about Greg: His website Section's website Prof.AI AI Truth Serum podcast -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Edelman's AI creators Chegg's downfall Moderna's AI usage Zapier's AI usage BOX's AI usage Dual Transformation Skunk Works Mary Barra "amazon.bomb" Stanford AI study 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s something happening in the AI hype cycle that drives you nuts right now? 03:21 Enterprise AI adoption stall out 08:58 AI as truth serum for lies in your company 11:49 Required ingredients for real AI transformation 19:04 Balancing risk with AI usage in startups and large enterprise 24:10 “Head of AI” roles are an uphill battle 27:48 First principles for an AI-lead organization 30:10 Disrupting your business model with AI and dual transformation 35:29 Greg and Section disrupting themselves with AI 37:44 Role of leadership in an AI future 44:40 Future of companies and careers 47:54 Role of companies in future of society 52:07 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a coworker! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    54 min
  8. AUA: How Do You Measure the ROI of Org Design?

    5 JAN · BONUS

    AUA: How Do You Measure the ROI of Org Design?

    Leaders often ask for a clear, immediate ROI on org design and transformation work—but that question can derail the conversation before it even starts. When ROI is framed purely as short-term financial return, it misses how organizations actually change and improve over time. In this mini Ask Us Anything episode, Rodney and Sam unpack how to approach ROI conversations in org design more productively. They explore why separate “transformation metrics” usually miss the point, how to anchor ROI to what leaders already care about, and why leading indicators like decision speed, cycle time, and meeting effectiveness matter more than tidy quarterly savings. Mentioned references: W. Edwards Deming Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at podcast@theready.com -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

    8 min
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4.7
out of 5
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About

Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin have helped teams around the world adopt more modern ways of working and on At Work with The Ready they’re sharing the inside scoop with you, too. Whether you’re struggling with a carousel of ineffective meetings, annual strategy sessions that go nowhere, or decision-making churn that never ceases, they’ve seen it all and are here to help. In each episode, they'll break down common workplace challenges and show you the moves—both big and small—to start making real, lasting change. (Formerly “Brave New Work” with Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans)

Information

  • Creator
    Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    260
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2024 The Ready Company, All Rights Reserved.
  • Show Website
    At Work with The Ready

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