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When I invited Garrett M. Graff on the show, I did so to chat about his incredible book The Only Plane in the Sky: An Oral History of 9/11, which came out in 2019. What I didn’t realize was that, by happenstance, Garrett had another oral history coming out in June, released two days before the eightieth anniversary of D-Day, which is today, June 6. I don’t feel like I have to explain the attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, but just in case you don’t remember the details of D-Day, on June 6, 1944, the invasion of the beaches at Normandy in northern France by troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and other countries during World War II is one of the most important days in world history; historians often refer to D-Day as the beginning of the end of World War II. At the time, the D-Day invasion was the largest naval, air, and land operation in history, and about 326,000 troops, more than 50,000 vehicles, and some 100,000 tons of equipment had landed. By August 1944, two months later, all of northern France had been liberated, and in the spring of 1945, the Allies defeated the Germans and World War II, blessedly, was over. Today, June 6, 2024, matters, because it’s likely the last anniversary that we will still have any living veterans from that day here with us, as the Greatest Generation has all but left us. Before I go any further, I want to honor those who served on D-Day and in World War II and in any conflict; I also want to honor the lives lost on September 11, 2001. It makes me emotional to think of the debt of gratitude we owe those who served and those who serve, present day. Thank you seems insufficient, but I offer it, nonetheless. Garrett M. Graff, our guest today, has mastered the art of the oral history, a unique way to unpack history that makes it very focused on the human element. Though we do talk about Garrett’s latest book about D-Day, When the Sea Came Alive: An Oral History of D-Day, which came out this past Tuesday, June 4, I’d say the bulk of our conversation is about September 11 and The Only Plane in the Sky, which really is such a vivid human portrait of that tragedy. It is a 360-degree view of the day, a comprehensive, full account of one of the worst days in American history. Garrett has spent nearly two decades covering politics, technology, and national security and is the former editor of Politico. He’s a contributor to CNN and Wired and has written for outlets like Esquire, Rolling Stone, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times; he also serves as the director of the cyber initiative at the Aspen Institute. In addition to the two aforementioned books, he’s also written The First Campaign: Globalization, the Web, and the Race for the White House, which examined the role of technology in the 2008 presidential race; The Threat Matrix, about the FBI; Raven Rock, about the government’s Cold War Doomsday plans; and the New York Times bestseller Watergate, which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in History. The Only Plane in the Sky was also a New York Times bestseller, by the way, and I have no doubt that When the Sea Came Alive will be, as well. He taught at Georgetown for seven years, including courses on journalism and technology, and he’s appeared everywhere from Good Morning America to The Today Show, CBS This Morning, the History Channel, the BBC, Al Jazeera English, and more. He also hosts the podcast “Long Shadow,” an eight-episode series about the lingering questions of 9/11. In this episode, Garrett and talk about these two powerful days in history, ones that should never be forgotten from memory.

 

All by Garrett M. Graff:

The Only Plane in the Sky: An Oral History of 9/11

When the Sea Came Alive: An Oral History of D-Day

“We’re the Only Plane in the Sky” for Politico

I wasn’t expecting, through Jennifer Romolini’s memoir Ambition Monster, to feel as seen as I was. About workaholism. Ambition addiction. Achievement addiction. Why I am that way. Why I experienced debilitating burnout, which, if you’ve ever experienced true burnout, you know what I mean when I say it is truly debilitating. And then, from the book to this conversation—I don’t like to play favorites, but this conversation has to rank up there with my absolute favorite episodes of this show’s 215 or so episodes. It felt more like a therapy session than an interview. Whatever you want to call it—hustle culture, Girl Boss-ing it, I heard a new term this week actually called “grindset” instead of “mindset”—whatever you want to call it, I know I’m not the only one influenced and affected by it. Jennifer’s book is about what happens when ambition—which certainly is a good thing—turns bad. What happens when workaholism sneaks in, and how this actually relates to childhood trauma. What happens when you get everything you’ve ever dreamed of, and then realize that it’s not enough to fill that hole inside you. And, at last, filling that hole with what is really sustaining, and it’s not work. Achievement addiction and ambition addiction and constantly trying to prove yourself, that addiction—it may not be drugs or booze or gambling or shopping, but it’s an addiction, nonetheless, and nothing done to excess like that is good for you. Jennifer raced up the professional ladder and reached the apex of success: she had a high-profile, C-suite dream job, and even traveled around the country giving speeches on how to make it and what it feels like to have made it. Beyond that, she had a handsome husband, a beautiful child, but, as the book puts it, “beneath this polished surface was a powder keg of unresolved trauma and chronic overwork. It was all about to blow.” This book will make you rethink the way we work, and rethink ambition on the whole. Jennifer co-hosts the podcast “Everything Is Fine,” which examines life for women over 40, with Lucky magazine founding editor Kim France (the show is one of my all-time favorites, though I’m not quite 40); she’s also the author of Weird in a World That’s Not: A Career Guide for Misfits, Fuckups, and Failures, and her work has appeared in outlets like The New York Times, Elle, Fast Company, Vogue, and more. She was a magazine editor in the 2000s, won awards for websites she edited in the 2010s, was a former deputy editor at Lucky alongside Kim, and was also the former Chief Content Officer of ShondaLand.com (as in, yes, the one and only Shonda Rhimes), Vice President of Content for Zooey Deschanel’s HelloGiggles, a writer, speaker, and digital media consultant who likes talking and thinking about women and work. In 2019, Jennifer was asked to be one of 10 authors tasked with creating The New York Times’ “Working Women’s Handbook,” so, yeah, she knows a little bit about women and work. Ambition Monster examines the lies women were and are sold about work and one of my least favorite three-word combination ever, “having it all,” and before we get into it, I should warn you that there is some ample cursing in this episode, as there tends to be when a subject resonates so close to home.

 

Ambition Monster: A Memoir by Jennifer Romolini

“Society’s Twisted Pleasure in Seeing Strong Women Fail” in Variety

True Love by Jennifer Lopez

Three Women by Lisa Taddeo

Welcome back to I’d Rather Be Reading—both the start of season 12 and, later this week, our three-year anniversary! We’ve got so much good in store this season, and I’m thrilled, as ever, to be back with you after one long week of a hiatus. Today on the show we have Julie Satow, who is here to chat with me about her latest book, When Women Ran Fifth Avenue: Glamour and Power at the Dawn of American Fashion, which is out June 4. This book and this conversation take us back to the twentieth century department store, a place where women—whether you worked at the department store or were shopping there—could stake out newfound independence, whether you were in New York City or on Main Street USA. Back in the 1930s and going forward to the 1960s, women didn’t rule many places—but they ruled the American department store. Not only is the American department store of those years examined—it’s a whole world unto itself inside its walls—but it’s a story told through the eyes of three women who rose to the top of the department store universe: Hortense Odlum of Bonwit Teller, who came to her husband’s department store as a housewife tasked with attracting more shoppers like herself in the 1930s—and wound up running the company; then we have Dorothy Shaver of Lord & Taylor, who was a champion of American designers during World War II, before which U.S. fashions were almost completely copies of Parisian looks. Dorothy, by the way, was the first businesswoman to earn a $1 million salary. Then, in the 1960s, Geraldine Stutz of Henri Bendel modernized the department store and became an eternal trendsetter in the space. Not only did these women advance their own careers, but they opened doors for all women, as well. We’ve got style, glamour, women’s empowerment, drama, trade secrets, wealth—it’s the department store in all its glitz, decadence, and fun, and looks closely at the women who made the beautifully curated world of the twentieth century department store operate and opened doors for working women everywhere. I am so thankful that, through this book, Julie is ensuring that these three women aren’t lost to history; their fingerprints are still felt today, in both fashion and business. Here to lead us on this journey is Julie Satow, who also wrote the fantastic book The Plaza: The Secret Life of America’s Most Famous Hotel, which was a huge hit and critically acclaimed. Julie is an award-winning journalist, a regular contributor to The New York Times, and she has also been published in Travel + Leisure and Bloomberg Businessweek and appeared on NPR. Take a listen to our conversation!

 

Both by Julie Satow:

When Women Ran Fifth Avenue: Glamour and Power at the Dawn of American Fashion

The Plaza: The Secret Life of America’s Most Famous Hotel

We have come to our season 11 finale, unbelievably, and to mark the occasion we have the fantastic, dynamic Sunny Hostin here to talk about her latest book, the third novel in her New York Times bestselling Summer Beach series, Summer on Highland Beach, which is out May 28. The best fiction, to me, not only takes me away, but teaches me something—and Summer on Highland Beach did just that. Highland Beach along the Chesapeake Bay is the oldest Black resort community in America and was founded in the late 1800s by the son of Frederick Douglass. It is a secluded beach community of about 100 private homes, and that’s where Sunny’s latest novel takes us to. As has become a trademark of her Summer Beach series, this book celebrates family, friendship, and community, and reminds us both of the importance of the legacies of our collective past but also about finding one’s way in the world in the present. Olivia Jones is the star of the show in this book, and her story continues to be told by Sunny, who is a three-time Emmy Award winner and a co-host of ABC’s popular The View. She is also an attorney and the Senior Legal Correspondent and Analyst for ABC News and the author, of course, of the other two books in the Summer Beach series: Summer on the Bluffs and Summer on Sag Harbor, both of which I inhaled, as well as Summer on Highland Beach. She is also the author of her memoir, I Am These Truths: A Memoir of Identity, Justice, and Living Between Worlds. I wasn’t aware of an HBBC—or a Historically Black Beach Community—until I read Sunny’s Summer Beach series. These communities have flown pretty under the radar until Sunny brought them to life through this trilogy, and this series absolutely uses place and setting as a character, which listeners, you know I love. Summer on Highland Beach closes the Summer Beach series, and I can’t wait for you to hear what Sunny has to say—I found her to be an absolute joy to be with.

 

All by Sunny Hostin:

Summer on Highland Beach

Summer on the Bluffs

Summer on Sag Harbor

I Am These Truths: A Memoir of Identity, Justice, and Living Between Worlds

One of the most important books written in the last few years is Dr. Katy Milkman’s 2021 book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, which focuses on the study of behavior change. This is a groundbreaking book in which Dr. Milkman reveals a proven path that can take you from where you are right now to where you want to be and teaches us that change happens most readily when you understand what’s standing between you and success and tailor your solution to that specific roadblock. Dr. Milkman is a behavioral scientist and professor at The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, and this book draws on her original research and the work of her world-renowned scientific collaborators. (The foreword to the book, by the way, was written by another of my favorites, psychologist Dr. Angela Duckworth, author of the fantastic book Grit.) How to Change shares strategic methods for identifying and overcoming common barriers to change, like impulsivity, procrastination, and forgetfulness, and gives us practical tips and tactics backed by science to help us achieve our goals, once and for all. Dr. Milkman has worked with numerous organizations on how to achieve positive change, including Google, the U.S. Department of Defense, Walmart, the White House, and the American Red Cross. Her research is regularly featured by media outlets like The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and NPR, and she currently co-directs the Behavior Change for Good Initiative at Penn as well as hosts the podcast Choiceology, a popular Charles Schwab show about behavioral economics. Speaking of The New York Times, How to Change was not only a bestseller but also named one of the eight best books for healthy living in 2021 by that outlet. Dr. Milkman is a Princeton and Harvard graduate and, as you’ll hear us talk about, wrote a book that truly changed my life, personally. I can’t wait for you to hear what she has to say.

 

How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Dr. Katy Milkman

When it comes to people I am most compelled by, living or dead, right there at the top of the list is Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy. And, actually, one of the parts of Carolyn I am the least compelled by is who she married, even though, trust me, I love John F. Kennedy Jr. separately, all on his own. But, while she became one-half of one of the most famous couples in the world in the 1990s, it’s Carolyn herself that I’m interested in. Carolyn was such a mystery and an enigma during her all too short life; she was elusive, stylish, elegant, graceful, glamorous, and, before Elizabeth Beller’s new book Once Upon a Time: The Captivating Life of Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy, which is out today, May 21, largely unknown. The unrelenting media portrayed Carolyn as an ice queen, a snob—but, as you’ll hear Elizabeth explain today in our conversation, she was anything but. In fact, a word Elizabeth closely associates with Carolyn is compassion—unfailing compassion. Like all of us, Carolyn was multi-layered, and the woman you’ll meet in this conversation and in Elizabeth’s book is, arguably, I think one we’d all like to know, and we’d all like to have as a friend. And her marriage is nowhere near the most fascinating part of her story. Carolyn died at just 33 years old; unbelievably, the 25th anniversary of her death is this upcoming July 16. Because of how private she was and because of a lack of information, Carolyn was incredibly misunderstood and, heretofore, I think we’ve really gotten her all wrong. But, according to those who knew her, she made people feel like they were the only person in the room. She had a timeless style that was minimalist, with a muted color palette—inspired, at least in part, because of her relationship with the paparazzi, which we get into today. Carolyn would be 58 years old today, and I’m so pleased to introduce you to her biographer, Elizabeth Beller. Elizabeth is a writer and journalist specializing in culture, art, and travel with more than 15 years under her belt as a book and story editor. Her work has appeared in Vogue, Travel + Leisure, and The Guardian, and prior to becoming a writer and editor, was a script reader for Miramax and worked for 12 years at Sotheby’s Auction House. In this book, Elizabeth really brings us a comprehensive look at a multifaceted woman who is, in the book’s own words, worthy of our attention regardless of her husband and untimely death.

 

Once Upon a Time: The Captivating Life of Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy by Elizabeth Beller