Positioning with April Dunford

April Dunford
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Positioning with April Dunford Podcast

Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. I’m April Dunford, the expert high-growth tech companies go to when they have a positioning problem. With over two decades of experience as a startup executive and consultant, I have positioned and re-positioned hundreds of products and companies. Using my battle-tested methodology, I'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. If you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or business leader who wants to stand out, this podcast is for you.

  1. How to Frame a Sales Conversation

    19 SEPT

    How to Frame a Sales Conversation

    In today’s episode, I dive into the art of framing a sales conversation. I explore three common ways salespeople start their pitches and analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each. By the end, I share my preferred approach to leading with a unique insight, helping you differentiate your sales pitch from the competition. You will learn:  * Three common ways to open a sales pitch: defining the problem, presenting market changes, and starting with discovery. * Pros and cons of starting with the problem statement in a sales conversation. * Why focusing on market changes might not be as effective as it seems in sales. * The challenges of relying solely on discovery at the beginning of a sales call. * How starting with your company’s specific value can shape the conversation. * Differences in framing strategies for enterprise vs. small businesses. * The importance of positioning yourself as an expert rather than following generic sales approaches. — If you want to skip ahead:  02:30 - Defining the Problem in Sales Conversations 06:15 - Presenting Market Changes to Frame Your Pitch 10:00 - Starting with Discovery in Sales Pitches 14:20 - Why Problem Framing Can Fall Short 22:10 - Benefits of Leading with a Unique Insight 27:00 - Using Your Value to Frame Discovery 30:00 - Practical Tips for Structuring Your Sales Pitch — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales:  Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact  April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/  April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/  April’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/  April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford  April’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@positioningshow — Mentioned in this episode:  * April’s most recent book, “Sales Pitch” (see links below).  — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks:  “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY  Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt  Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=%22April%20Dunford%22&c=books  Barnes & Noble: https://www.bn.com/s/%22April%20Dunford%22  Bookshop: a href="https://bookshop.org/contributors/april-dunford" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    29 min
  2. From Michelin Stars to Marketing Stars: Product Marketing Lessons from Tamara Grominsky

    15 AUG

    From Michelin Stars to Marketing Stars: Product Marketing Lessons from Tamara Grominsky

    In today’s episode, I speak with product marketing expert and consultant Tamara Grominsky, who is the former Vice President of Product Marketing at Kajabi and Unbounce.  Have you ever asked questions such as: “How do I hire a good product marketer? What skills should they have? And how should we measure product marketing?” In this episode, Tamara and I answer those questions and more. You will learn:  * The key responsibilities of a good product marketer. * Why product marketers should know the product better than product managers. * The differences between sales-led and product-led go-to-market strategies, plus the importance of mapping the buying journey and equipping the sales team with the right messages. * The need for founders to be realistic about the skills and experience required for a startup product marketer. * Why product launches don't need to be big or expensive to succeed, but they do need to be intentional about who the launch is for. * Lessons from how Michelin Guide was launched to encourage more driving, with star ratings for destinations. * The benefits of analyzing existing customers to identify best fit for product and value proposition. * Why you should avoid creating marketing personas that are too fictional and instead create segment profiles that are based on quantitative data. — If you want to skip ahead:  (3:27) Product marketing role and responsibilities.  (6:47) Product marketing challenges and hiring tips.  (12:24) Product launch strategies.  (16:08) Identifying target audience for product launches.  (20:13) Segmentation in marketing.  (25:10) Identifying customer segments.  (29:01) Product marketing personas.  — Connect with Tamara Grominsky on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaragrominsky/  Subscribe to “PMM Camp,” Tamara’s newsletter for product marketing leaders: https://newsletter.pmmcamp.com/subscribe  — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales:  Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact  April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/  April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/  April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford  — Mentioned in this episode:  * PMM Camp, Tamara’s community for product marketing leaders: https://www.pmmcamp.com/  * The Leap, a platform by Thinkific that creators can use to create and sell digital products: https://www.theleap.co/  — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks:  “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY  Amazon Canada: a href="https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    37 min
  3. Harnessing the Power of Differentiated Value: How To Win Over Customers and Outperform Competitors

    1 AUG

    Harnessing the Power of Differentiated Value: How To Win Over Customers and Outperform Competitors

    Today’s episode is a repost of one of my favorite topics: why value is important for positioning for B2B technology companies.  In this episode, first I define value vs. differentiated value, and explain why the latter is key to everything. Next I explore how to find the right balance between features and value, and I share tips on mastering your product walkthrough and proving your claims to customers. I also cover common mistakes to avoid when segmenting your audience, the job of a market category, and how a strong understanding of your differentiated value will inform successful messaging that resonates with your customers.  Lastly, near the end of the episode, I discuss my book, “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win,” which you can get from Amazon https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY and wherever good books are sold—see more links below. (When I originally published this episode, my book wasn’t out yet. But it’s been out for 10 months now and has received hundreds of 5-star reviews.)  — If you want to skip ahead:  (00:15) Defining value. (01:14) A story about Janna Systems and their biggest competitor, Siebel Systems. (04:19) How one sales rep changes everything. (07:35) How Janna Systems shifted their positioning and won over Siebel Systems. (08:34) Customers don’t care about your features. (10:28) Value vs. differentiated value and what really matters. (13:15) Value buckets. (14:06) Why value is difficult to understand. (16:06) Helping customers translate value on their own. (18:21) Mastering your product walkthrough. (20:00) The importance of proving your value to customers.   (21:47) Finding your best-fit customer. (23:50) Common mistakes to avoid.  (25:11) Differentiated value and the job of a market category. (27:43) How differentiated value informs messaging. (29:30) My book about sales pitches.  — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales:  Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact  April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/  April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/  April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford  — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks:  “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY  Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt  Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC — The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/  Subscribe on Apple...

    32 min
  4. Mastering Messaging for B2B Tech with Emma Stratton

    18 JUL

    Mastering Messaging for B2B Tech with Emma Stratton

    In today’s episode, my guest and I explore the intricate relationship between positioning, messaging, and copywriting for B2B tech companies. I’m joined by Emma Stratton, the founder of a consulting firm that helps-growing B2B tech companies win on positioning and messaging.  You will learn:  * How B2B and B2C are different and each comes with their own unique challenges and opportunities. * How to differentiate between positioning, messaging, and copywriting. * The value of flexible messaging across different channels.  * The importance of being concise in marketing messaging, particularly in the tech industry. * How punchy language is easier for consumers to absorb and remember, making it more effective in conveying complex ideas. * Why marketing professionals should avoid jargon and overused words like "leverage," "utilize," "transform," "accelerate," and "game changer." * Why some people struggle with narrowing down on a specific customer persona. * How taglines and headlines need to speak to customer perspectives. * Formulas and tricks to make your headlines more interesting and attention-grabbing.  — If you want to skip ahead:  0:01 Positioning and messaging in B2B.  8:32 Marketing terminology.  13:04 Using simple language in marketing and avoiding jargon.  17:20 Tech language clarity and messaging for specific customer types.  22:18 Messaging for technical products.  30:27 Emma’s book about messaging and marketing.  35:29 Messaging strategy.  — Connect with Emma Stratton.  Emma’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-stratton-punchy/  Punchy: https://punchy.co/  Learn about Emma’s book, Make it Punchy: How to Write Simple Tech Messaging That Wins Hearts, Minds, and Markets, which will be published in September 2024: https://punchy.co/book/ — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales:  Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact  April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/  April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/  April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford  — Mentioned in this episode:  * Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die, a book by Chip Heath and Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/4cNPDsx  — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks:  “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY  Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt  Amazon UK: a href="https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    42 min
  5. Rethinking Marketing and Storytelling with Martina Lauchengco

    4 JUL

    Rethinking Marketing and Storytelling with Martina Lauchengco

    In today’s episode, I explore gathering product market insights directly from customers and crafting effective product marketing strategies with Martina Lauchengco, a partner, teacher, author, speaker, mom, and native Californian. You will learn: * How a VP of Marketing required team members to talk to two customers every week. * Observing customers in the field to deepen your knowledge about how they use your products. * Conducting customer interviews to understand the bigger context. * Win/loss analysis. * Collaboration between marketing and sales teams. * How companies can stay ahead of the curve by being responsive to customer needs. * How the rapid pace of technological change and AI is transforming go-to-market strategies. * Understanding how a product intersects with the market and identifying key activities to amplify its reach. * Product marketing’s intersection with lead generation strategy. * The crucial role that product marketers play in shaping go-to-market strategies. * The limitations of positioning statements. * Understanding the context and audience for messaging. * The dynamic nature of messaging in the early stages of a company. * Using storytelling frameworks in sales pitches. * Investor positioning. * Borrowing techniques from successful peers, even if they seem unconventional. * How product marketing is misunderstood in many companies. — If you want to skip ahead: (0:00) Customer insights for product marketing. (4:16) Customer interviews. (9:38) Understanding market changes. (16:39) Product marketing and go-to-market strategies. (20:19) Lead generation. (26:15) Positioning for companies. (29:57) Sales pitches. (36:01) Testing new pitches. (39:23) Product marketing function. — Connect with Martina Lauchengco on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinalauchengco/ Learn more about Martina: https://martinalauchengco.com/ Get Martina’s book, Loved: How to Rethink Marketing for Tech Products: https://amzn.to/3RIr5s2 — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford — Mentioned in this episode: * Gong call recording software: https://www.gong.io/ * The Jobs-to-be-done (JTBD) framework: https://strategyn.com/jobs-to-be-done/ — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC — The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow — This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

    48 min
  6. Rethinking Sales Strategies for Modern Markets with Loren Padelford

    13 JUN

    Rethinking Sales Strategies for Modern Markets with Loren Padelford

    In today’s episode, I discuss how sales and marketing interact with Loren Padelford, a sales, marketing, cashflow, and revenue expert. You will learn: * The limitations of the predictable revenue playbook and alternative approaches. * How Salesforce pioneered cloud-based software and introduced a new way of thinking about how software gets delivered and sold. * How the rise of ad networks and digital ads made it easier to reach many potential customers faster. * Why the traditional sales process and long sales cycles are frustrating and failing. * That startups founders should design their own sales system based on their product and customer needs. * Shopify’s approach to hiring sales reps involved looking for personality traits like curiosity, intelligence, work ethic, and success. * That research shows no correlation between education and success in sales. * The limitations of Product-Led Growth (PLG) approach. * The role of sales reps as tour guides of e-commerce platforms. * The need for marketing, sales, and product to work together in the software industry. — If you want to skip ahead: (0:01) The predictable revenue sales model and alternative models. (4:49) Sales and marketing strategies in the software industry. (10:52) The limitations of the predictable revenue model in software sales. (15:44) Sales strategies and personality traits for success in sales. (23:01) Sales strategies for Shopify businesses. (27:35) The role of sales reps in e-commerce, with a focus on Shopify's experience. (33:05) Sales and marketing collaboration. (36:51) Sales and marketing alignment. — Connect with Loren Padelford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenpadelford/ — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford — Mentioned in this episode: * Predictable Revenue: Turn Your Business Into a Sales Machine with the $100 Million Best Practices of Salesforce.com, a 2011 book by Aaron Ross: https://amzn.to/4bXcBMP — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC — The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow — This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

    43 min
  7. A Buyer-Centric Approach to Competitive Positioning

    30 MAY

    A Buyer-Centric Approach to Competitive Positioning

    In today’s episode, I explore the different types of competitors you face and how you can position yourself against each of them. You will learn: * How different departments or groups in a company (e.g. sales, product development, etc.) view and define competitors differently. * The 3 types of competitors: (1) status quo competitors, (2) direct competitors, and (3) “do nothing” competitors. * Positioning yourself against status quo competitors requires nailing your value versus the status quo, and understanding a customer’s pain of changing from the status quo over to you. * Positing yourself against direct competitors entails leaning into your differentiated value, as compared to your competition. * Positioning yourself against “do nothing” competitors involves understanding why customers evaluated you and your competitors, yet became indecisive and didn’t pick any solution/product/service. — If you want to skip ahead: (4:36) Positioning against competitors in B2B sales. (9:59) Winning strategies for B2B sales, including disqualifying unqualified leads and addressing indecision in purchasing decisions. (14:45) Handling objections, increasing confidence in purchase decisions, and educating customers on trade-offs. (19:56) Ways to reduce customer indecision in sales deals. (24:53) Sales strategies for tech companies, focusing on positioning, best-fit customers, and risk mitigation. — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford — Mentioned in this episode: * April Dunford’s article/newsletter about this topic: https://aprildunford.substack.com/p/a-buyer-centric-approach-to-competitive * To get the free templates related to April Dunford’s two books, go to https://www.aprildunford.com/books and sign up for the newsletter; then you’ll receive an email to download the free templates. — Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.” “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.” Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ — The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow — This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

    31 min
  8. Arming Sales Teams To Win in the Market, with Brent Adamson

    16 MAY

    Arming Sales Teams To Win in the Market, with Brent Adamson

    In today’s episode, Brent Adamson and I explore what works and what doesn't work on sales teams, and Brent’s ideas for how we should arm sales teams to go out and win in the market.  My guest today is Brent Adamson, a researcher, author, presenter, and thinker with a passion for “productive disruption.” You will learn:  * The origins of the Challenger Sale concept and how the term "challenger" refers to salespeople who teach customers about their industries and challenge their assumptions, rather than simply telling them what to do. * Challenging customers to think differently. * Customer context has changed radically in the last 10 years, making large-scale decisions more complex. * Why some customers are overwhelmed by internal complexity, information, inability to align on goals, marketing, conflicting messages, etc.  * Why many marketers misunderstand the customer journey.  * The supplier selection is a critical problem to solve, but often occurs after the sales side has already been solved for. * Helping customers feel more confident in their decision-making abilities, rather than simply presenting them with new information. * How the Challenger Sales approach involves both frame breaking and frame making, with the goal of helping customers navigate their own internal complexity and alignment with colleagues. * Understanding the buyer's journey.  * Using value to demonstrate customer confidence, not the other way around. — If you want to skip ahead:  (3:22) Sales research findings, including the Challenger Sale study.  (6:12) Sales profiling, with a focus on the Challenger Sale approach.  (11:31) Challenging customers to think differently.  (14:27) Sales strategies.  (18:05) How buying decisions have become more complex and involve more stakeholders, creating challenges for sellers.  (23:04) Marketing strategies.  (28:10) Navigating complex decision-making in business.  (38:17) Customer confidence and alignment in B2B sales.  — Connect with Brent Adamson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentadamson/  Get Brent’s books from Amazon: https://amzn.to/3wlHOu4  — Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales:  Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact  April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/  April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/  April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford  — Mentioned in this episode:  * Brent Adamson and Matthew Dixon’s book, The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://amzn.to/3UsTcfG  * Brent Adamson, Matthew Dixon, Pat Spenner, and Nick Toman’s book, The Challenger Customer: Selling to the Hidden Influencer Who Can Multiply Your Results: https://amzn.to/3Ut41y2  * “Sensemaking for Sales,” Brent Adamson’s article in The Harvard Business Review: a href="https://hbr.org/2022/01/sensemaking-for-sales" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    51 min
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Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. I’m April Dunford, the expert high-growth tech companies go to when they have a positioning problem. With over two decades of experience as a startup executive and consultant, I have positioned and re-positioned hundreds of products and companies. Using my battle-tested methodology, I'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance. If you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or business leader who wants to stand out, this podcast is for you.

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