POW: The Psychology of Work

The Association for Business Psychology

POW is the Psychology of Work podcast from the Association for Business Psychology. In this podcast we give you the latest explosive insights from some of the brightest thinkers - and doers - in the field of business psychology. Episodes cover topics such as the rise of the gig economy, leadership, personality, and assessment, and include interviews with small business 'tsar' Emma Jones MBE, Chief Executive of the RSA Matthew Taylor, the journalist James Bloodworth, and business psychology pioneer Professor Peter Saville.

  1. FEB 4

    Episode 51: It’s not just about working longer – Tatiana Rowson discusses her new book on navigating longevity and the age of no retirement

    In discussion with Rob Feltham, Tatiana Rowson describes how the world is experiencing an unprecedented demographic shift in the profile of the workforce. People today are living longer and often healthier lives than ever before in history and are increasingly also working into much later life than has been the case in the past. What is frequently overlooked is that it is not just the length of people’s working lives that is changing, but also the nature of those working lives. Tatiana challenges the continuing value of concepts like ‘development’ and ‘work-life balance’ and outlines a model of personal leadership which enables individuals to exercise agency and choice and to create more sustainable and fulfilling working lives for themselves, particularly from mid career onwards.   Dr Tatiana S. Rowson is Associate Professor in Organisational Behaviour at Henley Business School. She teaches personal leadership development to students in the Henley MBA and undergraduate programmes. Tatiana is the Programme Area Director for Business and Management and is a member of the Henley Centre for Leadership. Her research interests encompass ageing, work, and employment, with a particular focus on how midlife transitions impact health, wellbeing, and economic activity in late career. Before joining academia, Tatiana worked as an organisational psychologist and executive coach for several high-profile organisations in the UK, Brazil, and the United Arab Emirates. She is currently based in the UK. About the book: Rowson, T. and Sloan, K. (2025) Personal Leadership in the Age of No Retirement, De Gruyter.   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor of The ABP

    36 min
  2. JAN 12

    Episode 50: Coaching in the outdoor environment – Jonathan Passmore and Ellie Lloyd-Jones explain why it works and how to do it

    In a conversation with Rob Feltham about their new book Outdoor Coaching: A Practical Guide, Jonathan Passmore and Ellie Lloyd-Jones make a compelling case for undertaking coaching away from typical office-based or online settings. The outside environment adds new dimensions and possibilities to the coaching process. It also presents significant challenges, and the book guides readers step by step through the practicalities. Jonathan and Ellie also describe the ongoing Source to Sea (Thames walk) coaching project, which they are jointly leading and which puts into practice the principles outlined in their book.   Topics covered in the discussion include: the rationale for outdoor coaching; the value of the cues and metaphors found in nature; and the evolutionary perspective which helps to explain some of the value that people gain from the approach. Jonathan Passmore is an award-winning chartered psychologist and professor at Henley Business School, UK and University of Evora, Portugal. He is listed in the Thinkers 50 and Global Gurus list and has held board-level roles in the consulting, technology and sports sectors over the course of a 40-year career in business. He holds five degrees, is a master executive coach, team coach and supervisor, and has published widely with 40 books and over 250 science papers and book chapters, including The Outdoor & Nature Coaches Handbook (Routledge).   Ellie Lloyd-Jones is a coach and founder of Elevate with Ellie and Elevate Netwalking, based in Cheshire in the northwest of England. With 20 years of corporate experience leading and developing teams, she is passionate about taking groups and teams outdoors to create space for connection, reflection and new perspectives. She is a qualified coach, NLP Master Practitioner and Strengthscope practitioner, and holds certifications in Outdoor First Aid, Mental Health First Aid and environmental sustainability.   About the book: Passmore, J. and Lloyd-Jones, E. (2025), Outdoor Coaching: A Practical Guide for Coaches and Supervisors to Working with Clients, Teams and Groups Using Blue-Green Psychology, Libri Publishing. Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor of The ABP

    37 min
  3. 11/04/2025

    Episode 49: The ABP’s first quarter century – looking back and looking forward, with Pauline Grant, Claire Lish and Steve Whiddett

    This special episode of the Psychology of Work Podcast marks the 25th anniversary of the ABP, and in it we hear from three distinguished ABP members who have each served as Chair or Vice Chair at different points in the organisation’s history. In discussion with Rob Feltham, they reflect on what the ABP has achieved during its first quarter of century and share their aspirations for the ABP’s future. Pauline Grant played a key role in the inception of the ABP and became its first Vice Chair. Steve Whiddett served as Chair for four years from 2009. And Claire Lish is the ABP’s current Chair.   When founded in 2020, the ABP became a new professional home and voice for Business Psychology, and over the subsequent 25 years the organisation has been instrumental in increasing public awareness and recognition of the profession.  The ABP has developed a distinctive ethos with its focus on: working shoulder-to-shoulder with clients to achieve practical evidence-based solutions; guardianship and growth of the Business Psychology profession; and emphasis on training and education to ensure that Business Psychology becomes steadily more mainstream and integral to the business agenda.   In 2009 the Health & Care Professionals Council (HCPC) was given statutory responsibility for regulating practitioner psychologists, and this was a critical juncture for the ABP.  Given the HCPC’s orientation towards healthcare, it was seen by many as lacking relevance and fit for the Business Psychology profession. The ABP was proactive and successful in establishing a separate identity and path for Business Psychology, subsequently reinforcing this with training and accreditation open to those entering the profession by non-traditional as well as traditional routes.   Key trends and changes in Business Psychology over the ABP's first quarter century have included: growing internationalisation and industry consolation, bringing far greater focus on global partnership and appreciation of diverse perspectives; and much greater emphasis on the organisational and social context for individual behaviour.   Whilst much has been achieved by the ABP over 25 years, there is some way to go to ensure that Business Psychology becomes a non-negotiable component of the organisational and business agenda.   The podcast guests   Pauline Grant   Pauline Grant was awarded Honorary Membership of the ABP in recognition of her pivotal role in the organisation’s founding and her enduring contribution to the profession. As the ABP’s founding Vice Chair, Pauline helped to shape the direction and values of the Association, serving in that role for four formative years. A trusted advisor to C-suite leaders across the globe, Pauline brought authenticity, insight, and unwavering commitment to the application of psychology in improving working lives. Her influence has helped to embed business psychology at the heart of strategic leadership and organisational development.   A Chartered Psychologist and former Director at the boutique consultancy YSC, Pauline’s career has spanned high-level consulting, leadership coaching, and talent development. She is known for her humility, intellectual clarity, and sincere focus on helping individuals thrive. She authored Careering Upwards in 2001 and edited two of the ABP’s flagship publications – Business Psychology in Practice and Business Psychology in Action – bringing together case studies and practical insights from across the profession. Even in retirement, Pauline continues to support the development of others through pro bono work and community contribution. She has supported The ABP Workforce Experience Awards as a Judge, demonstrating her continued investment in the Association’s growth and influence. Pauline’s Honorary Membership celebrates not just her professional achievements but her generous spirit, steadfast dedication, and lasting impact on the evolution of business psychology.   Steve Whiddett     Steve Whiddett was awarded Honorary Membership of The ABP in recognition of his outstanding service to the profession and his pivotal role in shaping the Association. A Chartered Psychologist, consultant, and author, Steve has been a leading voice in applying psychology to organisational performance, change, and leadership. As founder of WHE-UK, he championed ethical, human-centred change, and his published works, including The CIPD Competencies Handbook (1999, with Sarah Hollyforde) and A Practical Guide to Competencies (2003), have become standard references in the field. Representing the ABP, he also contributed to the BPS Division of Occupational Psychology’s Professional Guidelines for Assessment Centres (2015).   Steve served as Chair of the ABP from 2009 to 2013, a period of transformation in which the Association refined its purpose, values, and governance, introduced professional management services, and laid the foundations for long-term stability. He was instrumental in affirming the ABP’s inclusive identity, ensuring it welcomed all who apply psychology in business, and preparing the way for its renaming in 2013 as the Association for Business Psychology. Steve’s leadership, clarity of thought, and generosity of spirit continue to inspire the ABP community.   Claire Lish    Claire Lish is an accomplished Chartered HR and Change Management professional, recognised for her expertise in organisational transformation, governance, and people strategy. With over 20 years of leadership experience, she has guided businesses through complex restructures, cultural change, and strategic workforce development, always with a focus on aligning people practices to long-term business success. As current Chair of the Association for Business Psychology, Claire brings her deep commitment to evidence-based practice and inclusive leadership to the ABP community, championing the role of business psychology in improving working lives. Alongside her work with the ABP, she serves as Chair of the People Committee at Hundred Houses Society and leads her own consultancy, Psynergy Consulting, where she advises on retained HR leadership, board effectiveness, and business transformation. A Fellow of the ABP, the Institute of Leadership, and the CIPD, Claire is widely regarded as a transformational HR consultant and award-winning organisational development leader. Her career reflects not only governance acumen and operational insight, but also a genuine passion for shaping workplaces where people and organisations thrive.   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor for the ABP.

    53 min
  4. 08/14/2025

    Episode 48: Conversation that generates positive change – Sarah Rozenthuler discusses her latest book Now We’re Talking

    Authentic dialogue is a rare thing within many businesses and organisations and, in discussion with Rob Feltham, Sarah Rozenthuler outlines some of the practical ways in which leaders can address this gap and reap the benefits in terms of creativity, flow and ‘thinking together’. Topics covered in this podcast include: psychological safety which is a necessary but not sufficient condition for authentic dialogue; the Container, which is the physical and psychological environment that energises and creates a sense of possibility; and the negative impacts of social media and how to address them. There is also discussion of some the pioneers in the field of communication and dialogue, including Bill Isaacs and Marshall Rosenberg.   Sarah Rozenthuler is a chartered psychologist (coaching and occupational) and published author. With over 20 years of experience working globally at senior levels in large, complex organizations as well as start-ups and SMEs, Sarah brings extensive expertise in executive coaching, group facilitation, and consulting. Clients have trusted Sarah for over two decades to coach senior leaders to improve their communication skills, optimise their stakeholder management and deepen their executive presence.   In 2007, Sarah founded Bridgework Consulting Ltd, a renowned consultancy firm dedicated to empowering leaders, teams, and organisations to achieve greatness. She is also a valued member of the faculty at Saïd Business School, University of Oxford where she teaches on their flagship programmes. As an accomplished author, Sarah has penned several impactful books, including:   • Now We’re Talking: How to Discuss What Really Matters (2024) • Powered by Purpose: Energise Your People to do Great Work (2020)  • How to have Meaningful Conversations: Seven Strategies for Talking about What Matters Most (2012)   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor of The ABP.

    32 min
  5. 07/19/2025

    Episode 47: The genie is out of the bottle – Business Psychology in the age of AI, with Alan Bourne, Dexter Winters and Kate Young

    In an engaging discussion hosted by Rob Feltham, three eminent business psychologists working at the frontiers of AI share their perspectives on how the profession can remain impactful and relevant in a world of work rapidly being transformed. The conversation starts with a macro view of AI at work, and the role of psychologists in helping organisations design and implement their AI strategies. Then the discussion moves on to look specifically at the reshaped world of psychometric assessment.   Issues discussed include: the far reaching disruptive effects of generative AI and how well organisations are adapting; the future of competency and capability models; reenvisioning entry level roles; augmentation versus replacement of human job roles; AI as a potential game-changer for equality and diversity/neurodiversity; the AI empowered job candidate; validity and integrity of the assessment process; and the ABP’s current initiative to develop AI guidance for the profession.   Alan Bourne is a Partner at Ommati and leads their talent consulting, research and advisory services.   Dexter Winters is a Partner at The Thinkstitute, leading AI Business Transformation by putting people at the heart of adoption through leadership, culture, and capability.     Kate Young is head of people science at Sapia.ai. Sappia is an AI hiring agent.   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor for the ABP.

    1h 5m
  6. 05/15/2025

    Episode 46: A conversation with Dr Mike Rugg-Gunn, author of Managing Talent, A Short Guide for the Digital Age

    In discussion with Rob Feltham, Mike shares thought-provoking perspectives on a range of talent topics including: real-time performance management; neuroscience in psychometric assessment; the ever-increasing importance of the freelance workforce as a central element of the talent pool; generational stereotypes (Gen Y, Gen Z etc); and the urgent need for the UK to become world class in digital skills training.  Other issues discussed include the relevance of Business Psychology in the age of AI and digital transformation, and the impact of the current US presidential regime on DEI initiatives.    Mike is a chartered occupational psychologist and has worked for the past 25 years as a consultant in talent management with a particular focus on assessment for senior level roles, especially for private equity clients. Prior to qualifying in psychology, Mike had a career in Bass plc, and later worked for the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (forerunner to QinetiQ) as a government scientist researching topics for the UK armed forces, during which time he started his doctorate researching ways of evaluating computer-based training techniques in the submarine service. Subsequently Mike worked for several consultancies and executive search businesses where he set up three assessment practices, before running his own consultancy www.kildonanconsulting.com in talent management with a particular focus on senior leader assessment.  He is now semi-retired. Mike is a frequent conference speaker and has authored many papers on Human Resource issues - several which can be found in open access on the internet. A full list is available on request.   About the book: Rugg-Gunn, M. (2024), Managing Talent: A Short Guide for the Digital Age, Routledge.   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor of The ABP

    38 min
  7. 03/26/2025

    Episode 45: Can leaders catch themselves in flight? A conversation with Ross McIntosh about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)

    In discussion with Rob Feltham, Ross McIntosh provides a fascinating overview of the ACT framework and how it can help leaders to build psychological flexibility, in part by managing the interactions between their ‘inner voices’ and the ways that they show up at work. Topics covered include: building self awareness with the help of the Micro Pause and Macro Pause; managing transitions between leadership situations; and values-driven authentic leadership.   Ross is a business psychologist and coach who uses evidence-based psychology in all areas of his freelance career. At City St George’s, University of London, he works alongside Dr Paul Flaxman in an academic/practitioner partnership. They design and deliver ACT Workplace Training for both the public and private sector. Ross also lectures in organisational psychology at City St George’s and Birkbeck, University of London.     Ten years ago, Ross founded his consulting business which aims to cultivate well-being, adaptability, authentic action and awareness in organisations. He has designed and delivered evidence-based training to over 23 NHS Trusts, HM Treasury & Civil Service, Nectar Loyalty, teachers, a global tech company, a big four consultancy, Diageo, hedge fund managers and a variety of ballet companies including Rambert, Scottish Ballet, Northern Ballet and The Royal Ballet.    In a bid to reach more adults with the behavioural science from ACT and beyond, the People Soup Podcast was born in 2018. It’s won awards, has a global reach and in the global ranking is one of the top 2.5% most popular podcasts (in a field of around 3.5 million!)   Prior to his portfolio career, Ross spent over 20 years in Senior HR roles in Government. He is a Fellow of the Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development (CIPD), a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts (FRSA) and a Fellow of the Association for Coaching.   Ross's website can be found at: https://rossmcintosh.co.uk/ Rob Feltham is podcast editor of the ABP.

    39 min
  8. 12/11/2024

    Episode 44: You can forget your past but it won’t forget you – Nik Kinley discusses his latest book.

    Nik Kinley is a business psychologist and successful author with over 30 years’ experience specialising in assessing leaders, changing people’s behaviour and evolving organisational cultures. In an engaging discussion with Rob Feltham, Nik talks about his latest book, co-authored with Shlomo Ben-Hur, entitled Re-writing your Leadership Code: How your childhood made you the leader you are, and what you can do about it.  Nik shows how our past experiences create instincts and tendencies that we are often unaware of, but that tend to come out when we’re under pressure and can fundamentally affect how we operate as leaders, both in a good way and in a bad way. Leaders who understand their instinctive responses to pressurised situations have the opportunity to manage those situations better. In the discussion Nik also touches on the relevance of this type of analysis in the leadership assessment context. He also talks about the interaction of personality and power, and describes how positions of power amplify what people ‘bring with them’.   Nik’s varied career background includes commercial roles, senior corporate HR positions (with BP and with Barclays) and consulting roles - with YSC and with Accenture - as well as over a decade working in prisons as a forensic psychotherapist. He has thus worked with royalty, CEOs, murderers, politicians and children. During his time as a consultant, he has assessed over 1,000 senior executives from across the world. And as a coach, he has worked with Boards, CEOs and executive teams across industries and regions. He has written a series of books on leadership, change and talent management, published award-winning papers in academic journals, and is a regular lecturer at some of the world’s most prestigious business schools.   Rob Feltham is Podcast Editor of The ABP.

    37 min

About

POW is the Psychology of Work podcast from the Association for Business Psychology. In this podcast we give you the latest explosive insights from some of the brightest thinkers - and doers - in the field of business psychology. Episodes cover topics such as the rise of the gig economy, leadership, personality, and assessment, and include interviews with small business 'tsar' Emma Jones MBE, Chief Executive of the RSA Matthew Taylor, the journalist James Bloodworth, and business psychology pioneer Professor Peter Saville.