unSeminary Podcast

Rich Birch
  • 4.7 (110)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Biweekly

stuff you wish they taught in seminary.

  1. 3d ago

    You Will Multiply Who You Are and What You Do with Dave Ferguson

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Dave Ferguson, co-founder of Exponential, co-founder of Community Christian Church, and author of Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact. For decades, Dave has championed one central conviction: the Church will never fulfill its mission through addition alone. In this conversation, he challenges church leaders to rethink success, embrace multiplication, and cultivate the kind of personal health that sustains lasting kingdom impact. Are you building a church that grows, or a movement that multiplies? Wondering how your leadership today shapes generations of ministry tomorrow? Dave offers a compelling vision for creating influence that extends far beyond your own church. Multiplication changes everything. // Dave believes many church leaders are asking the wrong question. Instead of waking up each day asking, “How can I grow my church?” he challenges leaders to ask, “How can we multiply God’s Kingdom?” That subtle shift transforms every leadership decision, from staffing and budgeting to leadership development and church planting. Growth focuses on adding people to one church. Multiplication focuses on reproducing disciples, leaders, churches, and networks that reach beyond one church long after the original leader steps away. The Church needs a new scorecard. // Only a small percentage of churches in the United States are actively reproducing new churches. Through Exponential’s “16% Mission,” the goal is to move enough churches toward multiplication that reproducing churches become the cultural norm rather than the exception. Reaching this tipping point would fundamentally reshape how churches think about mission and influence. Culture beats strategy every time. // Multiplication doesn’t begin with a sermon series or a strategic initiative—it begins with culture. Dave encourages leaders to model multiplication long before they publicly announce it. Whether leading a small group, mentoring an apprentice, or developing future leaders, pastors must demonstrate the behaviors they hope to reproduce. People adopt what leaders consistently practice far more readily than what they merely promote. Health fuels multiplication—not hustle. // While multiplication requires intentional effort, Dave warns against building ministry on relentless hustle. Instead, healthy multiplication grows out of healthy leaders. Churches don’t simply reproduce strategies. They reproduce the character, priorities, and habits of their leaders. If leaders neglect their own well-being, they will unintentionally reproduce that same dysfunction throughout the organization. Watch the four gauges. // At the heart of Dave’s new book, Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact, is a simple daily framework for preventing leadership drift. He encourages leaders to evaluate four areas every day: relational health, physical health, mental health, and spiritual health. By honestly assessing these four “gauges,” leaders can recognize unhealthy patterns before they become major failures. Rather than waking up years later wondering how they drifted so far, leaders make small course corrections every day. Even better, Dave encourages processing these areas with trusted community, since accountability helps combat self-deception. Think beyond your lifetime. // Ultimately, Dave invites leaders to adopt a longer horizon for ministry. Buildings, attendance, and personal accomplishments eventually fade, but investing in people creates lasting kingdom influence. When leaders intentionally multiply healthy disciples and healthy leaders, their ministry continues bearing fruit long after they’re gone. That, Dave believes, is the kind of legacy worth pursuing. To learn more about Dave Ferguson, Exponential, and his new book Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact, visit exponential.org/multiplier or daveferguson.org. Email Dave directly to get bulk copies of his book. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. You’re in for a real treat today. Today is a leader, you know, you have those leaders in your life. You’re like, man, I wish everybody could be exposed to this person and would follow along. And you feel like you’re introducing a friend to friends. That’s what today’s conversation is. And I hope at the same time, it’ll challenge you and encourage you as we think about the future. Rich Birch — Excited to have Dave Ferguson back on the podcast from Exponential. It is a growing community of leaders committed to accelerating multiplication of healthy, reproducing faith communities. They equip multipliers through a variety of resources. You might know their big event, Exponential, but that’s not all they do. They do a lot of other stuff as well.Rich Birch — Dave also was the co-founder of Community Christian in Chicagoland and New Thing. We actually had Ted on recently for a follow-up episode, which is fantastic. So these will this will come out at a similar time. Dave also wrote a book recently that I want you to pick up. It’s called Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact. Dave, welcome to the show.Dave Ferguson — Hey, thanks, Rich. Good to be with you. Rich Birch — Yeah, so glad you’re you’re here. Why don’t you fill in the story for folks that don’t know or maybe aren’t following along. Maybe give us fill out the bio a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your background.Dave Ferguson — Long story short yeah, in my early mid-20s I planted a church in Chicago with a whole bunch of friends. God was very very kind to it; it grew had pretty large, and we had locations across the city and the suburbs. Out of that, then we started planting churches. Our first one was in Denver, then Southern California, and then Detroit, then New York, then Boston. And pretty soon we made a shift that we went from not only reproducing new churches, but helping reproduce networks of new churches. And that turned out to be a bigger deal than and we realized.Dave Ferguson — And we got opportunities then to do that in Europe and then in Africa. And next thing you know, fast forward 15, 20 years, and we were in 69 countries. And this will sound better than it is, but we got to help plant over 35,000 churches. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s incredible. Dave Ferguson — And at the same time, we also started Exponential. And so all three of those things had seemed to have God’s favor on it, grew. And in the last year, I apprenticed a new lead pastor, Ted Coniaris, that you referenced, who is, I guess, recently on the podcast… Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Dave Ferguson — …and who’s doing a great job at Community.Dave Ferguson — And then then on top of that, we moved New Thing underneath Exponential. So Exponential actually acquired New Thing. And for us, that feels really good. It was pretty, pretty easy transition, but feels really good because we have something we call the 16% mission that we’re going after. And it’s starting to feel actually achievable now. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so cool. Dave Ferguson — So I think I think that’s all that’s all the things.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s that’s it. Just that’s it. Yeah, that’s amazing. It’s so good. And, you know, there’s a lot I respect about you and your leadership. But one of the core things I love is you’ve really given your life to multiplication. You’re focused on this idea, helping us think about and then really in the best sort of way, poking and prodding and pushing us to come back to this idea. Rich Birch — I think for many of us, the word multiplication is the kind of thing we can hear it so many times. We can kind of tune it out or it like, what does that actually mean? Aren’t we all committed to multiplication? Isn’t it, isn’t that just what it means? So why does it still matter to the church today? Really lay it on thick here. Why is multiplication such a big deal?Dave Ferguson — Yeah. I mean, two things real quick. I mean, one for every one of your listeners, if they’re involved in ministry, I mean, they want, they they’re trading their life and they want to make the greatest impact they can. And I’m telling you, when you don’t invest in multiplication, you’re short selling yourself. You’re not going to, you’re not going to get to make the kind of impact that God intended for you to, or you possibly could.Dave Ferguson — So, I mean, Let me give you a quick example, so it becomes real tangible.Dave Ferguson — So two weeks ago, I was in Long Beach, California, and I ran into Matt Larson. Matt’s a guy who did a leadership residency with us probably, man, it’s been a long time ago now, 15 years ago. So he basically came, spent a year with us at Community, really sharp leader, but he didn’t really understand how to multiply. And we kind of helped him understand how to do that. Dave Ferguson — So he does that, goes back to Ventura, California, plants Anthem Church, and they’ve planted 15 churches. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Dave Ferguson — So think about this and this this. And I don’t know how you keep score, but this is how I keep score with my own, how am I making a d

    38 min

  2. Jul 2

    Following a 31-Year Pastor and Growing Faster Than Ever with Eric Holmstrom

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Eric Holmstrom, Lead Pastor of Purpose Church in Pomona, California. Founded more than 150 years ago, Purpose Church has a rich legacy of ministry and is currently experiencing significant growth following a healthy leadership transition. In this conversation, Eric shares lessons from succeeding a beloved long-tenured pastor, building on an existing culture, and leading a historic church into a new season of impact. Are you preparing for a succession transition—or wondering how to lead after a highly respected predecessor? Eric offers practical wisdom on navigating change with humility, honoring the past, and creating momentum for the future. Following a beloved predecessor. // Succeeding a pastor who led for 31 years can feel intimidating, and Eric is refreshingly honest about the insecurities he faced. During the transition process, he wrestled with feelings of inadequacy and wondered whether he was the right person for the role. Yet he found confidence not in his abilities, but in God’s calling. A defining moment came on the morning of the congregational vote when he reflected on Isaiah 41:13: “I am the Lord your God who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, do not fear; I will help you.” That promise became an anchor throughout the transition. The gift of a healthy handoff. // Eric credits much of the success of the transition to the generosity and wisdom of former lead pastor Glenn Gunderson. During the public handoff, Glenn introduced Eric to the congregation as “your new lead pastor” and then added, “and my new lead pastor.” That simple statement communicated trust, unity, and support. Glenn also intentionally stepped back for several months to allow Eric to build relationships with the congregation before gradually returning to participate in ministry. The result was a transition marked by health rather than division. Focus on what only you can do. // One of Eric’s biggest adjustments was determining how to spend his time as lead pastor. He quickly realized he could be involved in almost anything, but shouldn’t be. Instead, he narrowed his focus to vision, spiritual direction, staff development, and culture. While pastoral care remains important, he sees his primary role through the lens of Ephesians 4: equipping leaders who then shepherd and disciple others throughout the church. You are not the exception—you are the example. // One of the most significant initiatives Eric introduced was an employee spiritual commitment for church staff. He noticed a tendency among ministry leaders to unintentionally exempt themselves from practices they encourage others to embrace. Reading Scripture, serving, giving, participating in groups, and pursuing spiritual growth are not just expectations for church members—they are expectations for staff as well. After months of discussion, clarification, and prayer, the entire staff committed to a shared set of spiritual standards designed to strengthen culture and integrity across the organization. Building an intentional invite culture. // Purpose Church has also seen momentum through strategic “Sunday Funday” invite events. Rather than creating dramatically different experiences, these Sundays closely resemble a normal weekend service while adding elements that make inviting easier. Eric intentionally tells the congregation exactly what will be taught and who the message is designed for, helping members identify specific people to invite. This approach has contributed to increased attendance, more baptisms, and a growing number of people taking first steps toward faith. Shepherd people where they are. // Looking back, one of Eric’s biggest lessons is the importance of meeting people where they are emotionally during a transition. Some church members were grieving the departure of a beloved pastor, while others were brand new and excited about the future. Rather than forcing everyone into the same experience, Eric sought to pastor each person according to their unique journey. This posture of empathy helped create trust during a potentially difficult season. To learn more about Purpose Church, visit purposechurch.com or follow their ministry online for resources, messages, and updates. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school’s facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they’re here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad you’ve decided to tune in and you’re going to be rewarded for that today. We’re having a conversation that I know there’s a whole bunch of leaders that are on the front end of this decision. And today you’re going to get a chance to kind of peek up over the horizon and see potentially where your church is going to be in a few years. You’re going to want to stick around for this entire conversation. We’ve got Eric Holmstrom with us. He is the lead pastor of Purpose Church, which is in Pomona, California. Rich Birch — It originally started as Spadra, if I’m pronouncing correct, Baptist Church 150 years ago. It’s one of the fastest growing churches in the country. It’s diverse, multi-generational of every age and stage. And Eric has been the lead pastor since 2024. Welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Eric Holmstrom — Well, thank you so much, Rich, for having me. I am a huge fan of you and what you’re doing. I love how you’re supporting and helping church leaders and ministry leaders. So thanks for letting me join you today.Rich Birch — Oh, come on. That’s super kind. Glad you’re here and really looking forward to learning from you today. Why don’t you kind of give us a bit of your story and tell us a little bit about Purpose and kind of set the context for us.Eric Holmstrom — Yeah, well, Rich, that’s really cool too that you knew the name of our original church. It was Spadra Baptist, I think, was back in the day.Rich Birch — Spadra.Eric Holmstrom — And it’s actually, our church is 156 years old. So our church was started three years before the city of Pomona even became a city. And so a group of people came into this area and felt God calling them to plant a church here. And for 156 years, we’ve been in different parts of the city, but always here in Pomona, feeling called by God here. And so I am lead pastor number 19. Rich Birch — Wow.Eric Holmstrom — And so I’m just a blip on the radar here. And unless Jesus returns, Lord willing, there will be lead pastor 21, 20, or 20, 21, 22, 23. And they won’t even remember me. They won’t even know anything about me and God will continue to do a great work through this church. Eric Holmstrom — So I came here, my wife Sarah and I came here. We had one kid at the time, Charlie, and we came here 13 years ago. And you know felt like, this is a great, healthy church. The lead pastor, our our former lead pastor, Glenn Gunderson, just an amazing man of God. Him and his wife, Kimberly, and their family, they led here for 31 years as our lead pastor and just such a legacy leader.Eric Holmstrom — So when we got here, I started as the high school pastor and, I you know, wasn’t sure how long we’d be here. Loved the ministry, loved that ah there is a multi-generational, very diverse congregation here in terms of even diverse socioeconomically.Eric Holmstrom — So I love the opportunity to get to do youth ministry. That’s what I was passionate about and excited about and just wanted to faithfully follow God. I mean, that’s where my story of faith really began was going into my freshman year of high school. That’s when I got saved. That’s when I gave my life to Christ. I was at a camp, summer camp, went there looking for a girl and I found God. And my life was forever changed because of that, because of this camp and the local church that discipled me.Eric Holmstrom — And so got into youth ministry, came here, ah was a high school pastor for 10 years here, did a total of 18 years in youth ministry, and then began to sense that God was calling me and my family to step into this new season. And our lead pastor was encouraging of that. He really saw that in m

    40 min

  3. Jun 25

    Stop Losing First-Time Guests: What’s Working at the Front Door Right Now

    If there’s one thing church leaders should be obsessed with, it’s the front door. In this special compilation episode, we’ve pulled together four conversations from leading churches and ministry organizations that are seeing success in helping first-time guests move from curious visitors to fully engaged disciples. The challenge facing churches today is different than it was even a few years ago. Guests are arriving with different motivations, different expectations, and different questions. Churches that continue using yesterday’s assimilation strategies may unintentionally lose people God is already drawing. Don’t miss the four critical lessons every church should consider as they prepare for the fall ministry season. From changing guest motivations to intentional follow-up systems, discipleship pathways, and data-driven care, each conversation offers practical insights that can help churches better connect with the people walking through their doors. People Are Coming to Church Looking for God Greg Curtis shares a remarkable shift he’s seeing among first-time guests, particularly younger adults. Where people once came primarily looking for community, support, or practical life help, many are now arriving already searching for God. In some cases, they’ve already begun reading Scripture, exploring faith, or experiencing spiritual curiosity before ever attending a service. This means churches must be prepared to engage people with greater intentionality from the moment they arrive. Key Takeaway // Many first-time guests are no longer casually checking out church. They’re arriving with genuine questions about God and faith, often after beginning a spiritual journey on their own. Churches must be prepared to meet that curiosity with intentional next steps. Listen to the Full Episode // They’re Looking for God … Don’t Miss Them: Fixing Your Church’s Assimilation Problem with Greg Curtis & Tommy Carreras (March 26, 2026) Follow-Up Can’t Be Left to Chance John Sellers explains how Journey Church creates a clear and repeatable process for helping guests take their next step. Through intentional touchpoints—including a welcoming first interaction, relational next-step environments, and a six-week follow-up process involving texts, emails, phone calls, and personal invitations—the church ensures guests don’t simply attend once and disappear. Consistent follow-up may not be flashy, but it remains one of the most effective growth strategies churches can implement. Key Takeaway // Fast-growing churches rarely rely on a single welcome interaction. They build systems that encourage guests to take multiple steps over several weeks, increasing the likelihood that visitors become connected participants. Listen to the Full Episode // From Guests to Baptisms: Building Clear Next Steps with John Sellers (November 13, 2025)  A Clear Pathway Helps People Keep Moving Ashley Lentz outlines Lutheran Church of Hope’s discipleship pathway, which helps leaders identify where people are spiritually and what their next step should be. Rather than treating every attendee the same, the church intentionally helps people move from seeker to believer, from believer to follower, and ultimately into servant leadership. The framework creates clarity for both staff and volunteers while helping people continue growing long after their first visit. Key Takeaway // People are far more likely to stay engaged when churches provide a defined pathway for spiritual growth. Clarity helps both guests and leaders understand what comes next. Listen to the Full Episode // Clarity Is Kindness: Simplifying Next Steps in a Growing Church with Ashley Lentz (September 18, 2025)  Data Is a Tool for Shepherding, Not Just Administration Ronee de Leon of TouchPoint challenges churches to view their database as more than a record-keeping system. Using her framework of Conviction, Collection, Clarity, and Care, she explains how churches can use data to proactively identify opportunities for discipleship and connection. Effective data practices ensure people do not fall through the cracks and allow churches to provide personalized care at scale. Key Takeaway // Churches cannot effectively shepherd hundreds—or thousands—of people through memory alone. Healthy systems and meaningful data help leaders identify opportunities for connection, care, and discipleship before people drift away. Listen to the Full Episode // From Data to Discipleship: The Four Cs Every Church Needs with Ronee de Leon (April 30, 2026)  This episode serves as a timely challenge for church leaders preparing for the months ahead. As more spiritually curious people walk through church doors, the question isn’t whether guests are coming. It’s whether our systems, pathways, and follow-up processes are prepared to help them stay. The churches seeing the greatest impact are not leaving assimilation to chance. They’re intentionally creating environments where people can move from a first visit to a life transformed by Jesus. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Friends, Rich here from the unSeminary Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. We’ve got a very special compilation episode for you.Rich Birch — Listen, I have heard echoes of similar things happening over the last year or so on the podcast, so we’re pulling together these episodes because I want to point out to you critical lessons for your church, particularly here in the summertime, as you think about what are some things that we should be reloading for this fall. Listen, friends, you know, and I know that you and I are a part of the local church and the local church is the only organization in the world that exists for people that are not here yet. You and I should be fanatically focused on the front door.Rich Birch — We should be first-time-guest-obsessed. And on today’s episode, I want to peek in on four discussions that talk about changing dynamics when it comes to connecting with first time guests. And no conversation around this whole area of assimilation would be complete without talking to and listening to Greg Curtis. Rich Birch — If you do not know Greg, where have you been? He’s been at Eastside Church for the last decade running their assimilation work. And he’s really seeing some interesting shifts in particularly young adults when it comes that I keep seeing across the country. And in this clip, he’s going to open up and tell you about a subtle shift that he has seen and some of the changes they’ve made around assimilating people when they come in.Rich Birch — Now, today’s conversation, we’re going to really frame around Greg’s three part model. We talk about the screen to the seat, the seat to the circle, and then the circle to the street. We want you to understand that how we’re connecting with guests today is different than what it looked like five years ago.Rich Birch — It’s definitely different than what it looked like pre-COVID. So let’s listen in first and see if we can catch what Greg is seeing and think about the dynamics that you’re seeing at your church. Listen in to what Greg’s got to say… [Clip 1 Begins]Rich Birch — People get assimilated, get connected. What have you noticed maybe something that’s maybe different in the way people are engaging right now that’s different than maybe even a year or two ago?Greg Curtis — A crescendo over the last two years has been remarkable in its shift towards—this is going to sound crazy because we’re talking to churches—they’re wanting God now. And what I mean by that is prior, we were having to sell the benefits of following Jesus – most growing churches, which there are. And I think it was a compelling thing to share with the culture.Greg Curtis — And so people were coming to church to find community, to find help with parenting, to find support in marriage or to, you know, a variety of different things. And so the draw and what was causing people to engage with church was really, what help in my life? How can I increase the quality of my life? Maybe even get some pretty powerful pain points addressed. Greg Curtis — This has shifted. I’ll put it in the terms of our young adult pastor. His name is Charles. He came to me. He said, Greg, prior to two, three years ago, maybe not even that long, he said young adults were coming, 80% of them to find friends and community, and about 20% to find God.Greg Curtis — He goes, it’s flipped. It’s flipped. Now it’s 80% God and 20% community.Greg Curtis — And that has expressed itself in some remarkable ways. I’ll just throw two out. At the end of last year, I was covering somebody, a pastor who was going to baptize somebody after the service. He had to be gone. So I said, yeah, I’ll cover it. So in our context, I’ll meet that person ahead of time and kind of show them where to sit in the service, when to come out, where the baptistry is, et cetera.Greg Curtis — And I met her. She was 28 years old, named Connie. And I said, as we’re walking through the baptistry, so, you know, I asked these typical questions: how long have you been coming to Eastside, which is my church?Greg Curtis — And she says, oh, I’ve never been to Eastside. I was like, oh, so you’re from our online campus. And she goes, no,

    20 min

  4. Jun 18

    Hero Dependence Is a Terrible Growth Strategy with Tim Foot

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Tim Foot, CEO of Slingshot Group. With nearly three decades of ministry and leadership experience having worked with thousands of churches, Tim brings deep insight into one of the most critical drivers of church health: your team. In this conversation, we explore what separates stagnant teams from those that create real momentum and how leaders can shift from survival to remarkable impact. Why teams stall out. // After working with thousands of churches, Tim consistently sees the same patterns: unclear expectations, misaligned priorities, lack of structure, and unspoken tension. Many teams are overly task-driven but underdeveloped relationally. Others don’t fully understand how their strengths and weaknesses fit together. The danger of “hero-driven leadership.” // When a church relies too heavily on one standout leader to carry the mission it results in what Tim calls “hero-driven leadership.” While it can produce short-term results, it ultimately leads to burnout, unrealistic expectations, and fragile systems. Leaders often fall into this trap because it feels productive, and even rewarding, to be the one with all the answers. But over time, it limits team development and creates dependency instead of shared ownership. From hero to team. // The future of healthy ministry is team-based leadership. Instead of building ministries around individuals, churches must build systems and cultures where teams thrive together. This requires leaders humbly admitting they don’t have all the answers and a willingness to slow down in order to build alignment. When leaders shift from being the “hero” to developing others, they unlock far greater long-term impact. The seven “key signatures” of remarkable teams. // Tim introduces a framework of seven core areas that every healthy team must develop: conviction, message, culture, roles, systems, friction, and risk. These “key signatures” work together like elements in music, providing structure that leads to a strong, unified outcome. Conviction anchors the mission (“why we exist”), while message communicates that mission clearly. Culture shapes how people experience the team, and roles define how individuals contribute. Systems enable growth, friction drives improvement, and risk fuels breakthrough. Why friction is actually healthy. // One of the most counterintuitive ideas Tim shares is that healthy teams need friction. Many leaders try to eliminate tension, assuming harmony equals health. But in reality, the absence of friction often means important issues are being avoided. Healthy friction leads to better ideas, stronger alignment, and greater innovation. The key is ensuring it doesn’t become personal. When friction turns relationally destructive, it’s unhealthy. But when it stays focused on ideas and outcomes, it becomes a powerful driver of growth. A practical tool for leaders. // To help teams take action, Tim points leaders to a free “team awareness assessment.” This tool helps churches evaluate how they’re doing across the seven key signatures, identifying areas of strength and opportunities for growth. It’s designed to spark meaningful conversations that lead to real change. A final challenge for leaders. // Tim leaves leaders with a simple but powerful reminder: if your mission matters, your team matters more. Churches often focus heavily on the people they’re trying to reach, but neglect the health of the people they’re leading alongside. Sustainable, mission-moving ministry requires both. To learn more about Tim’s book Reaching for Remarkable: The 7 Key Signatures Behind Every Remarkable Team and take the free team assessment, visit reachingforremarkable.com or explore additional resources at slingshotgroup.org. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they’re reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you’ve been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Listen, listen, listen, pull in close because today’s conversation, I don’t even know your church, but I know that a large portion of your budget is being spent on the thing we talk about. In fact, lots of churches, it’s like half of their budget. And it’s an even larger portion of the outcome of your ministry. It’s incredibly important what we’re talking about today. And so you do not want to miss this. Rich Birch — And we’ve got an expert that has worked with not tens of, not hundreds of, but literally thousands of of churches like yours and wants to help you take steps forward. Excited to have Tim Foot with us. He has nearly 30 years of experience, which I’m not sure how that’s possible, such a young man, as a leader, pastor, coach, speaker, musician in both Australia and North America, bringing a diverse background to his role as the CEO and president of Slingshot Group. If you’re not aware of who Slingshot Group is, they take the guesswork out of nonprofit and church staffing. He’s recently written a book that I’m excited for you to learn more about. But Tim, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Tim Foot — Rich, it is so glad, it’s so great to be on with you today. I’m excited about this conversation.Rich Birch — So good. I’m I’m excited for it too. Why don’t you kind of give us a bit of the Tim Foot background? Tell us a little bit about about you and kind of give us the how do we end up here in this conversation today?Tim Foot — Yeah, it’s interesting. I often say to people, I had no idea that I’d be on the other side of the world to where I started doing what I’m doing. But this is what happens, Rich, when you say, keep saying yes to God.Tim Foot — Born and raised Tasmanian, worked as a musician and in ministry in Sydney for 10 years after moving from Tasmania, then relocated to Boulder County, Colorado in 2002, been here for 25 years now in ministry at a great church called Lifebridge Christian Church. Built ministry there for 10 years and went bivocationally started working with the Slingshot Group when there was a handful of us doing a handful of staffing and coaching work and then things exploded.Tim Foot — And I really, really hit my sweet spot and saw how God had been preparing me for so many years to work with teams, love teams, love the strategy of teams, love working with people, love the fact that placing the right leader on the right team exponentially moves the mission forward and affects culture in all kinds of ways.Rich Birch — So true.Tim Foot — And so I’ve had all kinds of roles in Slingshot over the years, now get to lead our team of amazing consultants around the US serving so many, and beyond, serving so many ministries and teams move mission forward.Rich Birch — Love it. I’m so glad that, yeah, this is going to a good conversation. You know, one of the things I want to take advantage of is the fact you’re really an expert. You know, you’ve worked with, you and Slingshot have worked with thousands of churches and organizations, and you you really get a chance to see churches at an interesting inflection point.Rich Birch — You know, often when we’re hiring a team member, bringing someone in or trying to develop our teams, you know, we’re thinking about the future and we’re, we’re taking a step back. And like you say, I do think it’s a transformative inflection point that you’re involved in. Rich Birch — So you’re sitting across the table from a lot leaders, and maybe even some leaders who their mission is stalling. Like things aren’t maybe going as well as we would hope. Are yeah there any patterns in that you’re seeing, are there things that you see time and time again in churches that might be holding us back?Tim Foot — Yeah, I immediately thought of a common question we’ll ask teams when we’re brought in when it comes to needing a new person on the team or helping coach leaders. We’re often brought in in crisis moments, moments of transition, but they’re also moments of incredible opportunity.Tim Foot — And we’ll often ask the question, hey, do you want a painkiller or do you want a vitamin? And so often the the team is thinking they want the painkiller, they want the pain to go away. They want to solve the problem, they want to fill the seat, or they want to break through whatever it is they’re struggling with. But honestly, deep down, they need to start a regimen of vitamins to help them get to a healthy place to move the missi

    37 min

  5. Jun 11

    74 Million People Want the Bible but Can’t Navigate It with John Plake

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by John Plake, Chief Innovation Officer and Editor-in-Chief of the State of the Bible research at the American Bible Society. With decades of experience as a pastor, missionary, professor, and researcher, John brings a unique perspective on how people are actually engaging with Scripture and what we should do about it. The “movable middle” is growing. // One of the most significant insights from recent research is the rise of what John calls the “movable middle”—millions of people who are open to the Bible but not yet engaged with it. This group has grown by approximately nine million people in recent years. They are curious, interested, and even positive toward Scripture, but they lack the tools, confidence, or guidance to engage it meaningfully. This represents a massive opportunity for churches willing to step in and help. People want a guide. // Through focus groups and research, John discovered that many people in the movable middle feel intimidated by the Bible. They struggle with language, context, and navigation. But perhaps most striking is they want help. Contrary to what some leaders might assume, they are not rejecting the church as a guide. In fact, many say, “If we can’t trust the church to help us understand the Bible, what good is it?” This creates a clear invitation for churches to step into a more relational, guiding role in discipleship. A surprising discipleship gap. // One of the most sobering findings is that nearly half of weekly church attenders are not regularly engaging Scripture on their own. While churches invest heavily in preaching and programming, many people are not developing personal habits of Bible engagement. John suggests that churches often focus on delivering content rather than equipping people to engage Scripture themselves. The result is a gap between what happens on Sunday and what happens in everyday life. From teaching to equipping. // If churches want to close that gap, they must shift from being primarily content providers to equipping environments. This means helping people develop the skills, habits, and confidence to read and apply Scripture on their own. It also requires understanding the real barriers people face, like time constraints, confusion, or lack of community support, and addressing those barriers with practical solutions. A new tool for churches. // To help leaders take action, the American Bible Society has developed the “Next Step for Church” assessment. This free tool allows churches to measure spiritual health, Bible engagement, and key leadership behaviors within their congregation. Within a few weeks, leaders receive a detailed, data-driven report highlighting strengths, challenges, and suggested next steps. Data that leads to discipleship. // John emphasizes that data is not an end in itself; it’s a tool for better shepherding. By listening to their congregation at scale, leaders can identify patterns, confirm instincts, and prioritize what matters most. The assessment surfaces both what’s working and where growth is needed, giving churches a clear path forward. It also connects individuals to personalized Scripture engagement resources, helping them take their next step spiritually. Why Scripture engagement matters most. // Nothing has a greater impact on spiritual growth than a person’s relationship with the Bible. In fact, Scripture engagement accounts for a significant portion of overall spiritual health. When people consistently engage with God’s Word, transformation follows—affecting beliefs, behaviors, and relationships. Signs of hope for the future. // Despite broader cultural challenges, John sees encouraging trends, especially among younger generations. Millennials and Gen Z show increasing openness to Scripture, even if they are still exploring. While overall trends may appear flat, meaningful change is happening beneath the surface. For churches willing to engage this moment, there is real opportunity for impact. To explore the research further or access the free church assessment, visit church.nextstep.bible and begin discovering how your church can better equip people to engage Scripture every day. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school’s facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they’re here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have decided to tune in today. This is one of those episodes that there’s a great resource in it that going to want to make sure you engage with. There’s super helpful content. Plus it’s about an area that I know so many of us are thinking about, we’re wondering about, we’re asking questions about. Rich Birch — So super excited to have John Plake with us today. He is the chief innovator ah innovation officer and editor-in-chief of the State of the Bible Research Series, which comes from the American Bible Society. And they’re on a mission to make the Bible available to every person in a language and format each can understand and afford so that all may experience its life-changing message. ABS has really a whole bunch of different tools and approaches, and we’re excited kind of expose a little bit more about that today. John has been in ministry over 30 years. We’ll just call it over 30 years. And it served as a pastor, missionary, professor, researcher. John, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.John Plake — Thanks so much for having me today. It’s great to be with you.Rich Birch — Why don’t you fill in the picture a little bit? Tell us a little bit about your background. You know, what brings you to your current work?John Plake — Yeah. Closer to 40 years now. Rich Birch — Nice. Yeah, yeah. That’s great.John Plake — It’s a little uncomfortable to talk about that.Rich Birch — That’s great.John Plake — Yeah. You know, I start out like a lot of people in ministry. I grew up in a home that ministry was central. Actually, both my grandfathers were ministers. My father was a minister. Ministry is kind of the family business in a way, but I really did sense a direction from God when I was about 15 years old to to pursue full-time ministry.John Plake — There was some detail around that. Ended up going to Bible college and and then started what turned out to be about nine years of full-time pastoral service. And I hadn’t been in that for very long before I realized that everything I learned in Bible College was preparing me to serve a generation that no longer existed in a culture that was gone. John Plake — And I thought, my goodness, I know God’s word pretty well. And mean, I’m a lifelong learner of God’s word. I love the Bible. And yet, didn’t really know culture very well. And I didn’t develop those tools until just years and years of practice, some missionary service, wonderful teachers at at Wheaton College and graduate school and and just a lifelong journey of learning.John Plake — So at American Bible Society, when I got here, the State of the Bible, program or this research project was already underway. And we’d been helped out by the Barna Group, which does some wonderful foundational work. And eventually it just kind of grew up and it got to a place where we had an internal team that was running it ourselves, now in collaboration with the National Opinion Research Council or NORC at the University of Chicago. We just do, I think, what is the largest ongoing study of Americans’ relationship with the Bible and faith and the church. And we get to talk about it all the time. Rich Birch — Yeah, I love it.John Plake — So, I mean, this is the best job in the world.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. It’s it’s great research, something that I think should be on the kind of list of things that we need to be paying attention to. It’s been a gift to the church for so long and something that we should continue to to pay attention through. Now, let’s talk about you specifically. You spent three plus decades. I didn’t want to say almost 40. You know, I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that. I could say that, you know, a couple years ago, I

    36 min

  6. Jun 4

    They Don’t Want Cool. They Want Fire with Ted Coniaris

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Ted Coniaris, lead pastor of Community Christian Church in the greater Chicagoland area. After an intentional and extended succession process with founding pastor Dave Ferguson, Ted has stepped into the lead role during a pivotal season for the church. In this conversation, he shares what it looks like to lead through transition, clarify vision, and build a disciple-making ecosystem for the future. A transition built on trust and clarity. // Ted describes a multi-year succession process that included months of private conversations, an 18-month apprenticeship, and a highly visible transition with full support from church leadership. One of the most unique elements was launching a new vision before the transition was complete. While unconventional, this approach created immediate alignment and buy-in across the church. Because the process was prayerful, transparent, and unified, the congregation experienced less anxiety than expected, resulting in what Ted describes as a surprising sense of peace and readiness for what’s next. Renovating, not rebuilding. // Ted uses the language of “renovation” to describe the church’s next chapter. Community Christian Church has a rich 37-year history of helping people find their way back to God, especially those far from faith. Rather than starting from scratch, Ted is focused on building on that foundation while addressing a critical gap: what happens after people come to faith? This has led to a renewed focus on creating a clear and intentional disciple-making ecosystem. A bold, layered vision for the future. // Ted outlines a four-part vision that builds sequentially: every heart on fire, every person a pastor, every child and student equipped, and every neighborhood a thriving church. This framework begins with spiritual passion—not just participation—emphasizing that people today are searching for something deeper than casual faith. From there, the vision moves toward activating every believer in ministry, taking seriously the priesthood of all believers. The end result is a multiplying movement of disciples impacting communities at scale. Rethinking discipleship through Growth Track. // To support this vision, the church is developing a clear pathway called Growth Track, built around three movements: Alpha, Disciple, and Pastor. The goal is not just information or assimilation, but transformation and activation. Ted emphasizes helping every person identify their calling, answering the question, “Who am I called to reach?” This reframes discipleship from passive participation to active mission. Ancient practices for modern renewal. // One of the more surprising shifts has been a return to ancient spiritual disciplines. Through rhythms like “Ignite Week”—a church-wide season of prayer, fasting, and reflection—Ted is seeing increased spiritual intensity across all age groups. These rhythms create deeper roots than one-time events, shaping both individual lives and the overall culture of the church. A multiplying model through microchurches. // In addition to strengthening internal discipleship, Community Christian is expanding outward through a rapidly growing microchurch movement. With hundreds of microchurches already launched globally, the model focuses on simple, scalable principles: low control, high support, and strong coaching relationships. Rather than centralizing growth in large gatherings, this approach empowers everyday people to lead and reach others in their own contexts—creating the potential for exponential impact. The leader’s soul is the strategy. // Ted closes with a powerful reminder: the most important strategy a leader has is their own spiritual health. Passion for God, integrity, and relational support are foundational. Ministry is difficult, but leaders who tend their own spiritual lives and refuse isolation will be better equipped to lead others effectively. To learn more about Community Christian Church, visit communitychristian.org. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it’s time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Super excited to have you listening in today. GI gotta be totally honest. I asked this person to come on today to have a bit of an update conversation from a conversation we had out just over a year ago. I’m really excited for this because it’s kind of fun to follow along with this story. And this is an area that really is, applies to all of our churches and I want all of us to lean in. And so pay attention, whether you’re cutting your grass or whatever you’re doing for the next 30 minutes, it’s going to be a great conversation.Rich Birch — We’ve got Ted Coniaris with us. He is the lead pastor at a fantastic church, a multi-site church in the greater Chicagoland area called Community Christian. They have, if I’m counting correctly, seven physical locations, as well as micro churches that meet in homes throughout the week and online space, plus community freedom locations, which meet in correctional facilities across the region as well. Ted, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Ted Coniaris — Thanks, Rich. Really glad to be here. Great to see you again. We get to cross paths a few times a year, so it’s always great to connect. Appreciate the time.Rich Birch — I appreciate you you taking time to come on and and connect. Friends that are listening in, just kind of bringing you up to speed. We’ll link to the previous episode if you want to go back and and check that. But the last time we talked, you were apprenticing as the lead pastor at Community Christian under Dave Ferguson. And I think that was a year ago. And you you know there’s all the steps. I think you were step three, step four, somewhere in there. Ted Coniaris — Yeah.Rich Birch — And there was this handoff on the horizon. And now we’re on the other side of that. And so that’s part of why I wanted to get you on. Here we are a year later. Let’s talk about those things. You’re still there. So that’s a good thing.Ted Coniaris — I mean, as far as you know, this could be a fake backdrop. Who knows?Rich Birch — Yeah, true this is the… Yeah, so you know what? You were…Ted Coniaris — No, it is true.Rich Birch — It takes a lot of time. Talk to us through, you know, what’s happened since then. Talk us about that transition. Kind of bring us up to speed.Ted Coniaris — Absolutely. So as you said, we went through an 18 month apprenticeship, but before that we had about six, eight, probably eight months of conversations just Dave and I, before we went above ground with elders and everything else, maybe even a little longer than that. So it was quite a long process walking through our apprenticeship process as a church and really wanting to do that at the highest level, just like we do at every level of leadership as a church. Ted Coniaris — So that was an amazing process. Dave is an incredible leader and even better man and somebody that it was a great privilege to spend more and more time with him. He and Sue—his wife—Melissa and I spending time with them, and then John and and Lisa, his brother and his wife. We spent a lot of time together, so it was great. And then since then, May, they’re still around. They’re still a part of our church. Dave is now the CEO of Exponential, spending full time doing that.Ted Coniaris — And John is leading something called the Chicago Collective, which is a network of churches, networks of churches throughout Chicagoland, working to plant more churches, which we desperately need in Chicago area. So if you’re listening, you’re like, man, I’m thinking about planning a church in Chicago. Please reach out to me. I would love to help you do that. We desperately need more more churches here.Ted Coniaris — So since then, it’s been great. Honestly, there’s been so much change, so many things going on, but it’s truly, truly been really, really good. I think I’m tired in the right ways. Rich Birch — Right. Ted Coniaris — I’m probably also tired in some of the wrong ways too… Rich Birch — Right. Ted Coniaris — …but it’s been a great it’s been a great transition.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. You know, when we you were on last time, you were talking about really stewardin

    37 min

  7. May 28

    Your Church Will Get the Crisis Call. Are You Prepared? with Rebecca Maxwell

    Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Rebecca Maxwell, a licensed marriage and family therapist and founder of Jacksonville Counseling Services. With 15 years of prior church ministry experience and now leading a growing counseling practice, Rebecca brings a unique perspective that bridges biblical truth and clinical insight. Are you feeling unprepared when people come to you with deep emotional or mental health struggles? Wondering how to respond wisely without overstepping your role? In this conversation, Rebecca helps church leaders better respond to crises and care for people in more informed and effective ways. Why pastors often feel unprepared. // Rebecca reflects on her years in ministry and recognizes that many church leaders simply lack the training needed to identify and respond to mental health challenges. While pastors are often the first call when someone is in crisis, most have received minimal formal education in this area. As a result, well-intentioned leaders can miss important warning signs or unintentionally cause harm. Rebecca emphasizes that pastors don’t need to become therapists—but they do need a basic framework for recognizing distress and knowing how to respond appropriately. Slow down before you try to solve. // One of the most common mistakes leaders make in crisis situations is moving too quickly to solutions. Offering Scripture or advice immediately—while well-meaning—can sometimes shut people down if they don’t first feel heard. Rebecca encourages leaders to practice the “ministry of presence”: allowing individuals to tell their story, expressing empathy, and bearing witness to their pain. This approach helps regulate emotions and creates space for truth to be received later, when the person is more grounded and able to process it. You don’t need all the answers—but you need a plan. // A critical takeaway for church leaders is the importance of knowing where to turn for help. Rebecca stresses that leaders don’t need to be experts, but they must have a resource network in place. This includes vetted counselors, crisis resources, and trusted professionals they can contact when situations escalate. Without this preparation, leaders may feel stuck or overwhelmed in high-pressure moments. Addressing misconceptions about mental health. // Rebecca also addresses a harmful but common belief in some church contexts—that mental health struggles are simply a sin issue. While sin can play a role, this perspective oversimplifies the complexity of the human mind. She explains that just as the body can become ill, so can the mind. Ignoring this reality can lead to shame, misdiagnosis, and ineffective care. Instead, churches need a more integrated understanding of people as whole beings. Why the church must engage this conversation. // If churches remain silent on mental health, people will seek answers elsewhere—from social media, AI tools, or secular sources that may lack biblical grounding. Rebecca urges leaders to step into this space with confidence and compassion, offering both truth and practical support. The church has an opportunity to be a trusted starting point for healing—but only if it is equipped to respond. A practical next step for every church. // Rebecca strongly recommends that anyone working with people receive basic crisis training, such as QPR (Question, Persuade, Refer). This short training equips leaders to recognize warning signs, respond appropriately, and guide individuals toward help. It’s a simple but powerful step that can literally save lives. To learn more about Rebecca Maxwell and her book, Jesus and Your Mental Health: Linking God’s Word and Modern Science to Find Peace about Mental Health, visit JesusAndYourMentalHealth.com and download a sample here. Explore additional resources at jacksonvillecounseling.net. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in today. You’re gonna be rewarded for that. I know that the conversation we’re having today, that this week, probably four or five times, you’ve thought about issues adjacent to this, and it’s gonna be super helpful. We are leveraging an expert. We’re gonna take advantage of this person to really help you this week and to help you solve some real problems. Rich Birch — Excited to have Rebecca Maxwell with us. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She started Jacksonville Counseling Services in 2015 to serve her Florida community with counseling services that integrate best practices with a biblical foundation.Rich Birch — The cool thing about Rebecca, well, there’s lots of cool things about her, but one of the cool things about her is prior to her voyage into marriage and family therapy, she spent 15, not 50 years in…Rebecca Maxwell — I look amazing.Rich Birch — Yeah, exactly. …in church ministry with children, adolescents, and family. So it’s just a great background, dual background for us to kind of tap into today. Rebecca, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Rebecca Maxwell — Yeah, glad to be here, Rich.Rich Birch — Apologize for the 50 year. That’s…Rebecca Maxwell — Hey, I mean, I look good for doing this for 50 years.Rich Birch — Yeah exactly. Why don’t you kind of give us a bit of a background? Tell us, fill out that, you know, bio a little bit. Tell us a little bit about yourself.Rebecca Maxwell — Yeah, so I’m married to a pastor, but I want to just be clear that I was in ministry first.Rich Birch — Yes. Good. Good.Rebecca Maxwell — I fell I fell into ministry ah after getting a degree in management from Georgia Tech… Rich Birch — Okay. Rebecca Maxwell — …and the Lord just kind of opened some doors, and I had to figure out what that was going to look like. Started in ministry to teenagers, youth. And did that faithfully for many years and also did a little bit of adult discipleship and kids ministry along the way, kind of got my training as I went along. Rebecca Maxwell — And there was a there was a point where God was just really beginning to lay the foundation for a different direction, a new call. And I spent a couple semesters in seminary trying to figure that out and ah didn’t think that was where the Lord was taking me to finish that training. And a friend, honestly, this was the best question I’ve ever been asked. She asked me, Rebecca, what do you love about youth ministry? What’s the favorite what’s your favorite part of your job?Rebecca Maxwell — And I said, you know, I love talking to teenagers and their parents about life stuff. And she said, well, I think you’d make a great counselor. And so that was the that was the the great question that got me in the direction of seeking more training in counseling. And I did marriage and family therapy because I was working with family so much… Rich Birch — Right. Rebecca Maxwell — …and really believing that the health of the family was so important to the health of the kids. And the kids were really like my driving force in what I was doing. Rich Birch — So cool. Rebecca Maxwell — So that it took me in that direction and along the way got to do some cool things in ministry and now working alongside churches in Christian, biblically based, also clinically informed counseling.Rebecca Maxwell — And so I have a practice in Jacksonville of there there’s about 18 of us now. And along the way, God gave me an experience that allowed me to to really know that I needed to be distinctively Christian and biblically based in my practice, that that was going to be important for my community. And so that’s that’s what we do. We try to bridge the best of psychological science with what the Bible says…Rich Birch — Yeah, so good. Rebecca Maxwell — …and serve our community.Rich Birch — Well, friends, you can see why I’m excited to have Rebecca on the on the call today, because I think, well, there’s a lot there, but there’s you know this idea of of being clinically informed and biblically based. I think you have a lot to help us think through these issues you know as pastors, as leaders. You know We’re wrestling with these kinds of questions all the time.Rebecca Maxwell — Of course. Rich Birch — We’re thinking about all of these things, referring people, and all this this comes up all the time. So you spent 15 years in church ministry before going down this road of being a licensed therapist. What did you see during those years as you reflect back on that time that made you realize, hey, maybe maybe church leaders need more help in this space? I’m declaring that I think we do. So, you know, I’m putting those words in your mouth. So, you know, don’t you know don’t be offended, listeners. That’s me saying that. But what do you what do you think?Rebecca Maxwell — Yeah, I think that I didn’t know what I was seeing when I was in ministry with some students and their families. I just knew that there was distress… Rich Birch — Right. Rebecca Maxwell — …and I didn’t know why in some cases. And not everything was a mental health issue, but I certainly missed a lot of those. I didn’t know how to meet kids and families who were in like mental crisis moments.Rebe

    37 min

  8. May 26

    10 Things Your Church Must Bring to a Capital Campaign

    Early in my time as an Executive Pastor, we were about halfway through what felt like a defining campaign for our church. And I was frustrated. Every time we met with our campaign consultant, they showed up with a binder (this was back in the 1900s) and we would turn pages to whatever was next. Cookie-cutter strategy. No real interest in who we were or what God was doing in our community. We fired them halfway through. Cost us real money and time. A decade or so later, I was part of another campaign. Completely different experience. That consultant is still a friend today. We started as workmates and became something more because we drew swords together through the whole thing. Reflecting on those two experiences over the years, across three fast-growing churches (two of which grew from under 1,000 to 4,000 or 5,000 people) and through multiple campaigns of various sizes, one thing has become clear: what makes the difference isn’t the firm you hire. It’s what you and I bring to the table. That first campaign? I was looking to the consultant for too much. I hadn’t thought carefully enough about what we needed to bring. These firms are coaches. Coaches can only do so much when the athletes aren’t doing the reps. Here are 10 things your church must bring to the table in your next capital campaign, whether you call it a generosity initiative, a spiritual growth season, or a building program. 1. Clarity of Vision Before You Talk About Money Research consistently confirms what experienced fundraisers already know: people give to impact, not to organizational need. Penelope Burk’s Cygnus Applied Research donor surveys, conducted annually with up to 25,000 active U.S. donors, found that 67% of donors increasingly favor organizations that provide measurable results, and roughly half report they’re not giving at their full potential simply because they lack information about where the impact actually lands. [ref] Yale’s Center for Customer Insights confirmed in 2024 that aspirational, vision-driven framing significantly outperforms need-based asks in generating donor response. [ref] For churches, the translation is practical: “We need a new roof” raises less money than “We’re building a home for the next generation of faith in our city.” The question worth sitting with is whether the average person in your congregation can explain your vision in a single sentence, and whether that vision is genuinely bigger than the campaign itself. If your church is fuzzy on what God is uniquely calling you toward, you are not ready. The campaign is just the next step out of a clear vision. Without that clarity established first, the campaign will underperform regardless of the firm you bring in. 2. Leadership Alignment at the Top When campaigns underperform, the culprit is almost never the economy, the giving culture of your congregation, or the consultant. In my experience, it’s misalignment at the senior leadership level, and the research on this is hard to argue with. Prosci’s Best Practices in Change Management research, now in its 12th edition and spanning 25 years across more than 10,800 professionals globally, has found that active and visible executive sponsorship is the single #1 contributor to initiative success in every benchmarking study since 1998. Campaigns with effective senior sponsors succeed 79% of the time; those without that alignment drop to 27%. [ref] McKinsey’s global survey data found that transformations are 12.4 times more likely to succeed when senior leaders communicate continually, and 47% of executives who had been through a major transformation wished they had spent more time aligning their top team before the launch. [ref] Your campaign consultant cannot create unity. That work belongs to you. Senior leadership team members and elders who are privately skeptical before the campaign goes public will erode trust once the pressure arrives, and the pressure always arrives. Getting that alignment sorted before you move is one of the most important things you can do, and it’s entirely on your shoulders. 3. A Willingness to Actually Do the Work Here’s something worth saying plainly: most capital campaign firms follow a nearly identical strategy. There’s a leadership phase, a core donor phase, a volunteer phase, a public phase, a pledge weekend, and follow-up. You could ask an AI to outline any firm’s likely approach and have a reasonable answer in about 10 minutes. The strategy isn’t what separates campaigns that transform churches from campaigns that disappoint them. Execution is. McKinsey’s global transformation data tells a similar story: only 26% of major organizational transformations actually succeed. [ref] Think about it like my Peloton. The instructor can give me a plan, show me the gauges, compare my output to other riders, and tell me exactly what to do. She cannot make me get on the bike and push hard. That part is entirely on me. A campaign running in parallel with normal ministry operations is essentially asking your team to do two full-time jobs simultaneously. Budget your team’s capacity honestly before you start, and make structural space for your people to actually execute the work the campaign requires. 4. A Culture of Repetition Behavioral science is consistent on this: people need to hear a message many times before it moves them to action. The old “rule of 7” from marketing turns out to be folklore with no traceable original source, and research suggests the real threshold is higher. Schmidt and Eisend’s 2015 meta-analysis in the Journal of Advertising found that peak attitude change happens at around 10 exposures. [ref] In a world of increasing distraction, that number is almost certainly climbing. At one church I was part of, I counted how many times the lead pastor repeated the core campaign message before the first public Sunday. The answer was 23. That’s not overkill. That’s how transformation actually works. Leaders get tired of the message long before the congregation does. Your congregation is always further behind than you think they are. The leaders who succeed in this season are the ones who lock in their messaging early and walk it out consistently, without flinching when it starts to feel repetitive to them personally. 5. Strong Engagement with Key Donors Before the Campaign Launches I don’t know your church, but I can predict with reasonable confidence that close to 50% of your church’s donations come from roughly 10% of your people. The AFP Fundraising Effectiveness Project, covering 12,000+ nonprofits and 6.7 million donors, found that just 3.1% of donors contributed 77.7% of all fundraising dollars in 2024. [ref] Industry benchmarks suggest 80 to 90% of a campaign goal comes from the top 10 to 20 gifts. The biggest checks come from the smallest rooms. If you have done little or no relational investment with your top-tier donors before you start thinking about a campaign, you are already behind. Early donor conversations are not about pressure; they are about invitation. These are your most generous people. Giving them the privilege of early connection, of being brought into what God is doing before the rest of the congregation hears about it, is not a fundraising tactic. It’s honoring a relationship. Start building that now, well before you need anything from them. 6. A Real Follow-Up Plan Here is something that can quietly sink a campaign before it ever goes public: pledges that never get followed up on. Well-managed capital campaigns actually have strong fulfillment rates. The follow-up process is what converts a signed pledge card into a fulfilled gift over time. Before you go public, map out your entire follow-up phase: regular donor communications, pledge reminders, giving statements, and a clear plan for when someone falls behind. One practical contract note worth flagging: make sure your agreement with your campaign consultant keeps them engaged through the follow-up phase, not just through Pledge Sunday. Campaigns that struggle with fulfillment almost always lose their way in exactly this stretch. 7. Financial and Operational Readiness Plan to spend somewhere in the range of 3 to 5% of your total campaign goal on the campaign itself, covering communications, events, materials, and video production. Most churches underbudget this category significantly. Running a campaign well requires real financial investment. The operational issue that almost took us down was different, though: our giving infrastructure wasn’t ready for a surge. In one campaign I was leading, I had a conversation with our finance team the morning of our public launch. “Are we ready?” I asked. “Yeah, yeah, we’re ready,” they said. I think part of them didn’t genuinely believe we’d see what we were hoping for. We were targeting over a million dollars in a single day. We hit it. And then our payment processor shut us down because we hadn’t prepared for a transaction volume that size. The friction in your systems is costing you generosity that’s already there, from people who were ready to give. Test your systems with your processor before launch day, and know your transaction limits before you run into them at the worst possible moment. 8. Emotional and Spiritual Resilience Leaders who have been through campaigns almost universally surface the same surprise: the internal relational strain was harder than they expected. When resources get focused on specific ministry areas, other leaders can feel overlooked or left out. Add the extra workload, the high stakes, and the spiritual opposition that tends to accompany anything of real Kingdom significance, and you have a reliable recipe for team fracture if you’re not paying attention. A campaign doesn’t create those pre

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About

stuff you wish they taught in seminary.

Information

  • Creator
    Rich Birch
  • Years Active
    2013 - 2026
  • Episodes
    300
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © unSeminary & Rich Birch
  • Show Website
    unSeminary Podcast

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