The Metrics Brothers (fka SaaS Talk)

Ray Rike & Dave Kellogg
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The Metrics Brothers (formerly SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers) is hosted by Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike.  The Metrics Brothers provides unique insights, strategies, tactics and the metrics that are relevant to Native-AI and B2B software and SaaS companies. Each 20-minute episode will cover a topic critical to leading a B2B software company, and chalked full of practical advice that can be introduced and applied in most Native-AI, Agentic AI and B2B software and SaaS companies.

  1. AI Valuations from Aventis

    HACE 6 DÍAS

    AI Valuations from Aventis

    Aventis Advisors recently published a report on AI Valuations which covered the number of investments, size of those investments, median valuations and multiples on AI investments over a 15 year period from 2010 through first half of 2025! Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss some of the highlights including: AI industry categories includedNumber of financing rounds (2010 - 1H2025)Total Capital Raised (2010 - 1H2025)Median sizes by round (2010 - 1H2025)Valuations (2010 - 1H2025)Valuation multiples (2010 - 1H2025)Large Language Model valuations vs AI Coding Assistant ValuationsSummary of the AI funding environment You can follow along to Dave and Ray's conversation by clicking the below link to the report Aventis AI Valuation Multiples Report See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    23 min
  2. The Gross Margin of AI Products

    18 AGO

    The Gross Margin of AI Products

    AI-Native products and AI products integrated into a traditional SaaS platform have different Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) than a SaaS platform, which directly impacts Gross Margin. With over 80% of SaaS companies already integrating AI products into their platform, the Metrics Brothers knew it was time to discuss the Gross Margin and Cost of Goods Sold considerations of deploying an AI product: Topics that CAC and Growth discuss during this episode includes: Gross Margin benchmarks for AI products versus SaaS platformsCost of Goods Sold (COGS) for SaaS productsCost of Goods Sold (COGS) for AI productsGeneral Rules for COGS vs OPEX categorizationIncreasing AI product Gross Margins with scaleThe cascading reality of AI investments and build-outs If you are considering investing capital and resources into an AI product, be it in an AI-Native product or as an add-on to a legacy SaaS platform, this conversation between CAC and Growth provides multiple insights and considerations for many Cost of Goods Sold components for AI products vis-à-vis traditional SaaS products. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    25 min
  3. Data Center Metrics: Gigawatts and Manhattans

    12 AGO

    Data Center Metrics: Gigawatts and Manhattans

    AI is creating a level of need for data centers, power and processing capacity that has not been seen before - but how to measure the magnitude of that need is the topic for the Metrics Brothers to take on during this episode. During today's conversation, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss many key Data Center metrics including: FLOPS - Floating Point Operations per SecondModel ParametersWatts and Gigawatts = PowerGigawatt/hours = EnergyFirst multi-GW data center named Prometheus Why data center size is now being compared to the city of Manhattan AI is changing the world as we know it - and the Metrics Brothers are diving into this trend metric by metric! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    23 min
  4. The New AI Growth Metric: Months to $100M in ARR

    31 JUL

    The New AI Growth Metric: Months to $100M in ARR

    SaaS companies were traditionally measured on how many years it took to achieve $100M ARR - a key milestone! In today's brave new world of AI, this milestone is now measured in MONTHS. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike highlight discuss this new AI growth metric in today's episode with many examples including: LovableCursorWizBoltAnthropicOpenAI Dave and Ray discuss how these new hypergrowth AI-Native companies compare to some of the fastest growing traditional SaaS companies including DocuSign, Atlassian, Box, HashiCorp, Zoom and Slack. The Metrics Brothers then dive a little deeper into the details of the "months to $100M" to discuss WHEN does that clock begin to tick, at launch or at $1M ARR? They then go beyond just AI and discuss how Product-Led Growth was once viewed as a key to accelerating growth to $100M and where the reality meets the expectations. Lastly, CAC and Growth discuss one example of a fast growing AI company that could not quite sustain the early growth trajectory that was greatly helped by the hype and the hope of AI - a cautionary tale for other high flyers or just an interesting data point? Take a listen to this episode if you are involved, interested or evaluating how growth rate expectations for software companies in the new era of software!!! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    25 min
  5. The Windsurf Transaction and the New Reverse Acqui-hires

    23 JUL

    The Windsurf Transaction and the New Reverse Acqui-hires

    The recent $2.4B deal by Google to purchase Windsurf's two co-founders, key staff and a non-exclusive license to the Windsurf software is an example of the new Reverse Acqui-hire structure. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the tradition vs new acqui-hire structure model as evidenced by the Google-Windsurf deal. During this episode, CAC and Growth cover not only the Goggle-Windsurf deal, they also discuss the broader impact to the future of acquisitions across the software industry. Topics discussed include: The timeline of the Google, Windsurf and now Cognition dealOverview of the traditional tech acqui-hire deal structureDiscussion on how the new "reverse acquihire" is differentComparing professional athlete's top salaries to top AI and software talent in reverse acqui-hiresWHY the use of the new reverse acqui-hires happen and why it will probably continue If you enjoy going beyond the traditional headlines of industry acquisitions and thinking about the underlying reason why tech acquisition deal structures are evolving and changing - this discussion on the Google-Windsurf deal provides great content to go beyond what and think about the why!!! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    29 min
  6. AI Metrics

    17 JUL

    AI Metrics

    AI and AI-Native companies are changing the software industry and the metrics to measure AI market momentum are still evolving. During this weeks episode, our co-hosts Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss a recent article on AI Metrics by Benedict Evans. AI measurements and metrics discussed include: Daily Active Users / Monthly Active Users (DAU/MAU)Tokens - what they are and how they are calculatedWeekly User Retention Dave and Ray take us on a stroll down "metrics memory lane" as they discuss the early days of the internet, and some of the metrics that were used in the early days, that evolved and changed as the use of the internet began to mature - some of those metrics included: Internet HostsHitsPage ViewsEyeballs Lastly, the term Occam's Razor was introduced to discuss why sometimes the simplest metrics that require the lowest number of assumptions is a good place to start when initially measuring new things. The Metrics Brothers are excited to expand their metrics-centric analysis and insights into the rapidly evolving world of AI, and specifically AI software and AI metrics! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    25 min
  7. Figma S-1

    9 JUL

    Figma S-1

    Figma is a web-based collaborative design platform used by product designers, UX/UI teams and developers. They also just recently filed their S-1. During this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss several aspects of the S-1 including: Customer count & revenue by customer segment ( $10,000 ARR, > $100,000 ARR, > $1M ARR)Net Revenue (Dollar) Retention Rate Calculation (132%)Gross Revenue (Dollar) Retention Rate Calculation (96%)Rule of 40 = 79 (higher than Palantir)Impact of the Adobe acquisition collapse - an enterprise valuation perspective Inspiration for the discussion and a few data points beyond what was in the Figma S-1 included: Jamin Ball - Clouded Judgement NewsletterOnly CFO NewsletterCJ Gustafson - Mostly Metrics Newsletter If you are interested in SaaS companies, S-1 filings and SaaS Metrics such as Net Revenue Retention, Gross Revenue Retention, and Rule of 40 - those metrics that impact enterprise value - this episode is for you!!! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    22 min
  8. The ICONIQ 2025 State of Go-to-Market Report

    2 JUL

    The ICONIQ 2025 State of Go-to-Market Report

    Go-to-Market is a term often used to describe the strategy, processes, and organizations that B2B companies employ to acquire, retain, and expand their customer base. In this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the recently published ICONIQ report on the State of GTM 2025...and yes, it includes a lot about how AI-native and AI utilization are impacting all things GTM.  Topics include: Funnel Conversion Rate TrendsAI-Native Funnel Performance Advantages Cost per OpportunityCustomer Renewal TimingGo-to-Market Headcount allocation (AI-Native vs Legacy SaaS)AI's impact on Sales ProductivityAI Spend Trends If you are a GTM leader, are responsible for the financial performance of your B2B SaaS company, or are interested in how AI is impacting all things customer acquisition, retention, and expansion, this episode has something for you!!! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

    29 min
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The Metrics Brothers (formerly SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers) is hosted by Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike.  The Metrics Brothers provides unique insights, strategies, tactics and the metrics that are relevant to Native-AI and B2B software and SaaS companies. Each 20-minute episode will cover a topic critical to leading a B2B software company, and chalked full of practical advice that can be introduced and applied in most Native-AI, Agentic AI and B2B software and SaaS companies.

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