unSILOed with Greg LaBlanc

Greg La Blanc

unSILOed is a series of interdisciplinary conversations that inspire new ways of thinking about our world. Our goal is to build a community of lifelong learners addicted to curiosity and the pursuit of insight about themselves and the world around them.*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

  1. 584. Examining School Closure Policies During the Pandemic: Untested Models vs. Empirical Evidence feat. David Zweig

    4H AGO

    584. Examining School Closure Policies During the Pandemic: Untested Models vs. Empirical Evidence feat. David Zweig

    How did political and social pressures affect public health decisions during the pandemic, and how did media reporting amplify those effects? What is the cost when experts detach from evidence-based medicine for policymaking and defer decisions to those without the proper expertise? David Zweig is a journalist, novelist, and musician. He is also the author of An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions. Greg and David discuss David’s journey from working on a different book during the pandemic to documenting the school closure policies and their implications. They cover various topics, including public health, expertise, the state of science, partisanship, tribalism in academia and the public sector, and how those factors influenced the policy and decisions during COVID. David talks about the decision-making processes behind prolonged school closures despite falling hospitalization rates, the role of media coverage, the politicization of public health recommendations, and the long-term impact on children’s education and mental health.  *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:The failure of the expert class 30:39: One of the reasons that I felt motivated to spend years writing this book [An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions], and just painstakingly trying to create a document. So I am hoping that, if I am not too big for my britches here, I hope in a decade, or a couple of decades or more from now, people will look back at the book and use this as a tool to understand: How does something like this happen, where science and evidence are ignored? And not only is it ignored, but it is ignored by the people who ostensibly are the experts who should know better. I do not spend a lot of time criticizing Trump, or, you know, Alex Jones, or conspiracy theorist people, because that's boring. I already do not expect them to know what is going on, but I do expect people with advanced degrees. I do expect physicians, I do expect these public health experts. And my book, in many ways, is a study of how those people—it is the failure of the expert class. Intuition over data 15:28: Real-world, like empirical evidence, was ignored almost entirely. And when it was acknowledged, even in a minimal way, it was dismissed with a bunch of really contrived reasons that were based again on the expert's intuition. None of this was based on any evidence or data. When models reflect privilege 01:07:54: It's quite important to note that the people who made the models also tended to be the people who did the best in the pandemic. That's what this guy Eric Berg's philosopher, who I interviewed, pointed out to me many times. Like, boy, that's pretty ironic that the people who chose how to create these models, they were the ones who were in comfortable homes. They were the ones who had their kid. They probably had one or another parent at home with the kid to help them with their studying. Maybe they could pay for a tutor. Maybe they went to their vacation home somewhere. If the people designing the pandemic response were in a studio apartment in the Bronx with four children, with one absent parent, and with one of the kids sick and with a learning disability, I'm pretty darn sure that their recommendations would have been quite different if those were the circumstances they were living in. Show Links:Recommended Resources: COVID-19Andrew CuomoAnthony FauciDonald TrumpCenters for Disease Control and PreventionThe New York TimesMegan RanneyWired (magazine)Graham AllisonEvidence-Based MedicineMIS-CVladimir Kogan ProfileEmily OsterDeborah BirxGuest Profile: DavidZweig.comProfile on WikipediaSocial Profile on XSocial Profile on FacebookGuest Work: Amazon Author PageAn Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad DecisionsInvisibles: The Power of Anonymous Work in an Age of Relentless Self-PromotionSwimming Inside the SunArticles for The AtlanticSubstack Newsletter Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    1h 13m
  2. 583. Reflections on Literature's Enduring Role in Human Experience feat. Arnold Weinstein

    4D AGO

    583. Reflections on Literature's Enduring Role in Human Experience feat. Arnold Weinstein

    How does literature enrich our understanding of ourselves and of others, in ways that STEM fields and other forms of knowledge cannot? What is contained within the language of reading that you don't encounter with other art forms like painting or film? Arnold Weinstein is a Professor Emeritus of Comparative Literature at Brown University and the author of several books. His latest two publications are The Lives of Literature: Reading, Teaching, Knowing and Morning, Noon, and Night: Finding the Meaning of Life's Stages Through Books. Greg and Arnold discuss how literature offers unique and invaluable insights into the human experience, bridging historical and cultural divides. Their conversation examines the connections between literature and self-discovery, the challenges of teaching literature in a contemporary academic setting, and the enduring relevance of classic works from authors like William Faulkner, William Shakespeare, and Mark Twain.  *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:Life doesn’t come in disciplines 01:02:54: Literature helps you see history. That philosophy, et cetera, needs a good dosage of literature, which is why we created that course and let the disciplines—not the people, the disciplines themselves—do battle with each other. And there's no obvious answer here. There's no winner or loser. But the students were confused. They wanted to get what's the right take on this. Well, has anybody ever offered the right take on reality? Universities come packaged in disciplines. Life doesn't. It doesn't. All of our major problems cannot be solved with any single discipline, including economics and, you know, and coding. Literature makes us more human 09:25: It's a good workout to read literature. It makes us more generous, as being able to award the notion of humanity to other people. Because I do not think you can kill them. You cannot stamp them out if you do not think back. Why great books leave you uneasy 30:13: We are supposed to exit literature course, not exactly being more confused, but more embattled in a sense to see that other ways of being, as well as other ways, other values that people might have, is a kind of absolutely basic "meat-and-potatoes" element of human life. You cannot just live in your own silo, in your own scheme, even though you are locked in it. That's the point. We cannot exit ourselves. History isn’t a fairy tale 40:51: If we read the books, it only tells us what we want to know, which is what we are headed towards in this society today with the current political scene. Any text that is critical of American history is considered broke and therefore removed. And I'm worried that we are going to get a generation of people who think that American history is a fairy tale, which it is not, and no amount of rhetoric can change that. That we can police and prohibit these certain kinds of texts can take over the Kennedy Center, but we cannot, in fact, change what all of that is about, which is that we are still paying the bill for the history of racism and slavery in this country. It is not solved. We can just try to put it under the rug, but it is not solved by any means. So it is in that sense that the discomfort is required. If it simply massages us, say, "oh, this is terrific," then I think we are reading the wrong book. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Harold BloomFranz KafkaThe MetamorphosisSøren KierkegaardWilliam FaulknerMark TwainAdventures of Huckleberry FinnJamesBenito CerenoBlaise PascalWilliam ShakespeareKing LearHamletOthelloIagoToni MorrisonNaked LunchGuest Profile: Profile at Brown UniversityWikipedia PageProfile at Roundtable.orgGuest Work: Amazon Author PageThe Lives of Literature: Reading, Teaching, KnowingMorning, Noon, and Night: Finding the Meaning of Life's Stages Through BooksNorthern Arts: The Breakthrough of Scandinavian Literature and Art, from Ibsen to BergmanA Scream Goes Through the House: What Literature Teaches Us About LifeRecovering Your Story: Proust, Joyce, Woolf, Faulkner, MorrisonNobody's Home: Speech, Self, and Place in American Fiction from Hawthorne to DeLilloThe Great Courses - Classic Novels: Meeting the Challenge of Great Literature

    1h 1m
  3. 582. Our Ancestral Eves: How the Female Body Shaped Human Evolution feat. Cat Bohannon

    SEP 8

    582. Our Ancestral Eves: How the Female Body Shaped Human Evolution feat. Cat Bohannon

    What does the female body itself contribute to the story of human survival and development, and how does it differ from other animals and specifically, other mammals? These contributions include but are not limited unique attributes for gestation, childbirth, and lactation. Cat Bohannon is a researcher, scholar, and the author of the book Eve: How the Female Body Drove 200 Million Years of Human Evolution. Greg and Cat discuss the significant role of the female body in human evolution. Cat shares the origins of her interdisciplinary approach to writing the book. Their conversation explores the evolutionary importance of maternal and infant health, the implications of sex differences in biology, the historical intersections of gynecology and sexism, and the deeply ingrained cultural norms around reproduction. Their discussion also touches on the origins of patriarchy and the impact of modern medical advancements on child-rearing and fertility trends. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:The deep story of mammals is reproductive investment 06:13: “Eve,” [the book] in so many ways, was just—it's like a giant thought experiment, right? Like, okay, what if we do take this seriously? What if we say, what if sex differences do matter? What does the current science say about where they might and what that might implicate? And how does that change the story of ocean? You know, because like the big story, like you say, of mammalian evolution is reproduction. It's reproduction. I mean, it's cool that some little bit of a quasi-reptilian jaw broke off and now we have inner ear bones, but that's not a really interesting story in evolution. You know what I mean? 06:53: You know, that's not the deep story of mammals. The deep story of mammals is reproductive investment. Why are female bodies always regulated across cultures? 59:52: We seem to, in every human culture, create rules that regulate access to female bodies. One way or another, we may have a subset of rules that are more liberal—that is distinct to our culture. We may have a set of rules that are more what we would call conservative or more controlling. That is distinct to our culture. It just depends on which culture you are in. What we all do have is these damn rules. Lactation is a two-way communication system 55:40: We have to think of lactation then as this kind of two-way communication platform between the maternal body and the offspring's body, right? So whether that kid's getting stressed and there's more cortisol in its saliva, or whether the mothers experiencing a stressful environment, then they are effectively biochemically communicating that to one another through that bi-directional transfer point of the damn nipple, which is one incredibly cool. There's nothing like that in the animal world. Two. Oh, okay. So then we have to think of lactation as a thing that's more than simple caretaking. It's actually a major foundational thing that happens in mammals that have nipples. Why women store special fats in their hips and butt 45:28: One of the things that is really interesting is that on the maternal body, different fat depots seem to have slightly different chops... [45:48] So this gluteal femoral fat, that is your upper thighs, your hips, and your butt — those fat deposits seem to specially store different kinds of stuff. There are these long-chain fatty acids, LCFAs — long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. Our bodies are not good at making them from different parts. [46:26] For females, we mostly seem to store them in our butts. We start storing them in childhood, and then we keep going, and it turns out they do seem to be really important for building baby brains and baby retinas, which, by most accounts, are just an extension of your brain anyway. Show Links:Recommended Resources: PlacentaMalariaPlasmodiumEpidural, see Tina Cassidy's unsILOed Podcast episodeBruce EffectSolomonAlloparenting, see Sara Hrdy's unsILOed Podcast episodeKatie HindeUpsuck HypothesisGuest Profile: LinkedIn ProfileAlumni Profile | ButlerSocial Profile on InstagramWikipedia Entry for EveGuest Work: Amazon Author PageEve: How the Female Body Drove 200 Million Years of Human Evolution

    1h 5m
  4. 581. The Power of Status: Examining the Matthew Effect feat. Toby E. Stuart

    SEP 5

    581. The Power of Status: Examining the Matthew Effect feat. Toby E. Stuart

    How does status infiltrate all of our decisions, and how is status allocated in a networked society? Toby E. Stuart is a professor at the Haas School at UC Berkeley and also the author of the new book called Anointed: The Extraordinary Effects of Social Status in a Winner-Take-Most World. Greg and Toby discuss the influence of social status on various aspects of life, including consumer behavior, resource allocation, and decision-making. They explore the concept of the Matthew Effect (how status leads to more status), the interplay between status and merit, and the implications of prestige in different fields such as academia, venture finance, and entertainment. The episode also examines the role of status in creating inequality and the potential benefits and challenges of implementing measures to reduce the impact of status in decision-making processes. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:The big shift why we trust the painter over the painting 12:17: What do you do when you have to make a choice about something, but you have no real ability to evaluate its quality? Right? And, you know, that is true of so many things. Like, it is true of a hotel room you have never seen before, or a restaurant you have never been to before, or, like, you know, which of these things are going to be good? And in the book, I make the argument that what you do—I call it the Big Shift—is, if you walk into a museum, say, and you see a piece of art on the wall, I mean, you know it is in the museum, but you do not know whether it is high quality or not. But then you see the artist's name, and what you do know is, it is a Picasso, and I have heard of Picasso, and he is a very famous artist. And, in theory, he makes excellent art. And because of that, this is a very good picture. This is an amazing piece of art. But what you just did there is you took the identity of the artist and you assigned it to the art itself. Status exists only in relationships 08:41: Status is a resource that is created in a social system. So individuals and groups give status to members, but it does not exist absent the social relationship. And right there, you can see the link to social networks, because flows of deferences are forms of relationships. Born on third base privilege and status 56:16: So there is still today the prosperity gospel, and people who are successful often believed that it was a form of pre-ordination, like they were destined to get whatever they have, you know. But the other part of it is, you know, is best summed up by, you know, this quote I have always loved. I think, you know, the providence is occasionally debated, but it is often attributed to Barry Switzer. You know this one, and it goes: he refers to someone and he says, like, “You know, that guy was born on third base, and he has always thought he hit a triple.” Right? And that is what we call privilege these days—where you have all of these advantages. You were born with the advantages, you did not earn them, but you think you did, and therefore you attribute your status to your own merit. Versus what actually happened is you were born on third base; you did not ever hit the triple. Status on steroids in the digital age 42:19: What happens when we have these digital platforms? When we have digital platforms, like anybody can get onto Spotify or Pandora or Apple Music or whatever, and they can find any piece of music literally created. Just like, you know, 99.9% of all recorded music exists on these platforms. And so you can find anybody's music. And so anywhere in the world, you can listen to the oboist—that one oboist who is the greatest in the world. So the globalization of the audience changes the nature of what happens in the marketplace, so to speak, and in a radical way. And then, if you have a cumulative advantage process which pushes people up to the top, that unfolds on steroids if you are looking at a global digital marketplace versus the way the world used to work. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Matthew EffectNetwork TheoryRobert B. ParkerWine RatingJohn Strutt, 3rd Baron RayleighRichard Wrangham - UnSILOed Episode 5Alexis de TocquevilleCaste SystemJohn D. RockefellerReformed ChristianityGuest Profile: Faculty Profile at Berkeley HaasTobyStuart.comLinkedIn ProfileBerkeley ExecEd ProfileSocial Profile on InstagramSocial Profile on XGuest Work: Anointed: The Extraordinary Effects of Social Status in a Winner-Take-Most WorldGoogle Scholar PageResearchGate Page

    59 min
  5. 580. Creating Masterpieces: A New Vision of Leadership feat. Charles Spinosa

    SEP 3

    580. Creating Masterpieces: A New Vision of Leadership feat. Charles Spinosa

    Many business leaders craft successful companies but only a few elevate that to the level of a masterpiece. What is it about some companies and leaders that allows them to achieve this status? How does the vision of ‘the good life’ differ across corporations, large and small? Charles Spinosa is a management consultant and the author of several books. His latest book is called Leadership as Masterpiece Creation: What Business Leaders Can Learn from the Humanities about Moral Risk-Taking. Greg and Charles discuss Charles’s vision of business leaders as artists and creators who shape organizations into masterpieces, rooted deeply in humanities and philosophy. The conversation covers various business leaders, including Jeff Bezos, and how their leadership styles create distinctive moral orders within their companies. Charles connects principles from Shakespeare, Nietzsche, and Machiavelli to modern business practices and explains how leaders can cultivate courage and virtue within their organizations. They also explore the differences between founders and inheritors of businesses, the role of leaders in shaping corporate culture, and the implications for leadership education. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:The three questions behind masterpiece leadership 18:05: My three questions are: What always goes wrong here? That tends to be an easy question for 80% of them to answer. What would you love to do instead? That is the hard question. That is the one you think is easy, but what would you love to do instead? That is hard because these men and women are geniuses at managing around what always goes wrong. They have been rewarded for managing around it, and they are good at it. And then, once we can get to “What would you love?”—what risks do you need to take to do what you would love? And that is where we begin to work out the kinds of risks, the hard risks they are going to take. Because when they make these changes, if they do not succeed, they are going to be seen as not just foolish, but actually evil. They have gone out and harmed people in careers and so forth. So we have to figure out those, and then we have to put them in a kind of strategic order. But that is, in short, my masterpiece-building strategy.  Leadership as a moral masterpiece 03:10: Masterpieces are not just attractive and compelling aesthetically. Masterpieces give us a distinct new way to live that we consider a good life. They are moral masterpieces, and they are morally distinctive. Cultivating courage in organizations 42:34: It is not that hard to build a company that cultivates courage. When you realize that part of courage is realizing that you figure what you think is right, and then you compose a way for people to hear it. Why leadership calls for admiration 22:15: I can admire Google, and I can admire Amazon. A lot of people cannot. I have had people walk out on me when I say that about Amazon. But choose another company—choose The Body Shop, choose Zuckerberg's company, Meta—quite different from Amazon. Again, if we can admire different companies, we do not have to embrace everything we admire, and that gives us a sense of different good lives that we can admire. And I want that to be the virtue that we develop, which is a step above tolerance. I mean, really, with tolerance, which is the modern virtue for dealing with difference, we tolerate things that are different that we cannot eliminate. They are too powerful. We do not consider them quite as good. We tolerate them, but it is never a happy tolerance. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Friedrich NietzscheJeff BezosWilliam ShakespeareOthelloIagoHamletJack WelchMartin HeideggerLorenzo ZambranoJames C. CollinsAmy EdmondsonIliadStanley MilgramNiccolò MachiavelliGuest Profile: Profile on Vision.comLinkedIn ProfileSocial Profile on InstagramGuest Work: Amazon Author PageLeadership as Masterpiece Creation: What Business Leaders Can Learn from the Humanities about Moral Risk-TakingKellogg on Advertising and Media: The Kellogg School of ManagementA Companion to HeideggerKellogg on Integrated MarketingPhilosophical RomanticismThe Practice Turn in Contemporary TheoryHeidegger, Coping, and Cognitive Science: Essays in Honor of Hubert L. Dreyfus, Vol. 2Disclosing New Worlds: Entrepreneurship, Democratic Action, and the Cultivation of SolidarityResearchGate Page

    53 min
  6. 579. Dissecting Capitalism's Critics From the Industrial Revolution to AI feat. John Cassidy

    AUG 28

    579. Dissecting Capitalism's Critics From the Industrial Revolution to AI feat. John Cassidy

    It’s not hard to find critics of capitalism in the current moment but this has always been true: as long as we have had capitalism we have had critics of capitalism. What are the recurring themes of these critiques and how have they helped to shape the economics profession and capitalism itself? John Cassidy is an author at the New Yorker magazine and also the author of several books. His most recent two are Capitalism and Its Critics: A History: From the Industrial Revolution to AI and How Markets Fail: The Logic of Economic Calamities. Greg and John discuss the multifaceted and varied criticisms of capitalism throughout history. Over the course of the conversation, Greg recounts how John’s books have investigated economic crises, the behavioral finance revolution, and the diverse critiques of capitalism from both the left and right. John brings up several examples of historical economic figures, from Adam Smith to Marx, and examines how crises have shaped economic thought and policy. Greg and John also make a point to highlight lesser-known critics and movements, underscoring their unsung importance of economic history. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:When both the left and the right turn against capitalism 04:05: In 2016, when Trump was running for the Republican nomination and Bernie Sanders was running for the Democratic nomination, I thought, if you go back into history, it's a long time since we've had sort of major candidates running for office as critics of capitalism from the right and the left. Bernie, of course, has always been a critic of capitalism. He's independent socialist—I'd call him a social democrat, but we can get into what those terms mean if you want. But what's really new was Trump, running from the right with a critique. I mean, people have sort of forgotten now, but when he started out, he was criticizing the banks. He was criticizing big businesses for offshoring. He was running with a critique of capitalism from the right. So that got me thinking about maybe there's a book in how we got here. How can America, sort of world capital of capitalism and always very supportive of the system, come to this state of affairs where the two major candidates are running against it basically? A historical approach to capitalism 12:21: Capitalism means anything involving large-scale production on the basis of privately owned assets. Private means of production. And if you adopt that broad definition, then mercantile capitalism, slavery, the plantation economies is a form of capitalism. Why economists often miss the real economy 09:51: I realized in sort of maybe the late nineties, early 2000s, that if you want to speak to an economist about what was going on in the economy and what's happening in Washington, there really wasn't much point in calling up Harvard or MIT or Chicago or whatever, because the economics department would say, "Well, we don't really have anybody who covers that. You need to go to the business school, or you need to go to the business economists." So I think maybe there's been a backlash against that since the Great Financial Crisis. I know there's been a lot of efforts inside various universities, especially in Europe, to make the syllabuses more relevant, more sort of real-world based. But I still think at the higher levels of the subject, it's still extremely abstract. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Adam SmithDot-com BubbleGreat RecessionNeoliberalismKeynesian EconomicsMilton FriedmanKarl MarxRosa LuxemburgIndustrial RevolutionCapitalismLudditeWilliam ThompsonRobert OwenThomas CarlyleGlobalizationDependency TheoryAnna WheelerFlora TristanJoan RobinsonRobert SolowPaul SamuelsonJ. C. KumarappaKarl PolanyiGuest Profile: Profile on The New YorkerWikipedia ProfileSocial Profile on XGuest Work: Amazon Author PageCapitalism and Its Critics: A History: From the Industrial Revolution to AIHow Markets Fail: The Logic of Economic CalamitiesDot.Con: The Greatest Story Ever Sold

    56 min
  7. 578. Rethinking Government Digital Transformation feat. Jennifer Pahlka

    AUG 25

    578. Rethinking Government Digital Transformation feat. Jennifer Pahlka

    How can lawmakers and public servants design policies which benefit from continuous learning?? How will government offices that learn and adopt agile practices be able to achieve better outcomes for the public? Jennifer Pahlka is a senior fellow at the Niskanen Center, founder of Code For America, and the founder of the US Digital Services under the Obama administration. She is also the author of Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better. Greg and Jennifer discuss why the government struggles with adopting modern digital practices such as agile and waterfall methods. She explains the disconnect between policy-making and implementation, emphasizing the need for a more integrated and feedback-driven approach. They explore other topics such as the over-reliance on contractors, burdensome procurement rules, and the essential role of user research in creating effective digital services.  *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:How feedback loops can make government more agile 06:07: Turns out that when you implement this policy in the way that you are telling me, we get a really perverse outcome. If there is no feedback loop to send that information back up to the decision makers, you get a lot of wasted money, you get a lot of perverse outcomes, you get a lot of angry people. But, you know, when the architects can say, or the builders can say, actually no, you can go into a discussion about that, then you have not just an agile development process, but you have a more agile government process. ​​The system, not the people, is broken 30:37: It is not that public servants are lazy or stupid. It is that the system that they are working in is just ill-fit, it is just ill-suited to the job we need it to do. Why government keeps building concrete boats 30:58: So you are referring to the story I have in the book of this guy at the Veterans Administration (VA), which, by the way, has gotten so much better. He is kind of a leader now. But I am questioning him about this project that we are working on at the USDS, sort of what was pro-USDS before. It was one of the first engagements that were sort of testing out the thesis of the USDS. And I kept asking. This guy was a senior leader in technology in the VA. Like, why is it built this way? Why did you make this decision? And over and over, he says, that is not my call. You have to ask the procurement people, or the program people, or the compliance people. He just did not have answers. And I asked him why he was so deferring on all these. And he said, if they ask us to build a concrete boat, we will build a concrete boat. And I said, why? And he said, well, because that way when it does not work, it is not our fault. And that speaks to the incentives. Your incentive is to make sure that when it does not work, it is someone else’s fault. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Department of Government EfficiencyCode for AmericaAgile software developmentWaterfall modelYadira SanchezGrace HopperBrooks ActPaperwork Reduction ActOffice of Information and Regulatory AffairsCharles WorthingtonEzra KleinGuest Profile: Niskanen Center ProfileWikipedia ProfileJenniferPahlka.comLinkedIn ProfileSocial Profile on XSocial Profile on InstagramGuest Work: Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do BetterSubstackMedium

    1 hr
  8. 577. Debunking the Myths: What Science Is and Isn't feat. James C. Zimring

    AUG 18

    577. Debunking the Myths: What Science Is and Isn't feat. James C. Zimring

    What does it mean to ‘know’ something, and what does it mean specifically when stated by a scientist? What is the role of debate in driving scientific progress, and how does progress get built on the bones of science that we later find to be incorrect? James C. Zimring is a professor of pathology and immunology at the School of Medicine at the University of Virginia and also an author. His latest books are What Science Is and How It Really Works and Partial Truths: How Fractions Distort Our Thinking. Greg and James discuss the complex nature of scientific thinking and the philosophical underpinnings of scientific practices. James emphasizes the discrepancies between the idealized version of science and its messy reality. They explore the critical distinction between phenomena and theoretical claims, the social constructs within scientific methodology, and the importance of understanding what it means when scientists claim to 'know' something. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes:What science is and isn’t 03:18: My goal here was really to try and provide non-scientists with, as you pointed out, a more realistic assessment of what science is and what it means when a scientist says they know something. Because the hyperbole around scientific claims, although exciting, right, has also destroyed a lot of scientific credibility. The best way to lose credibility is to make a claim that you cannot possibly live up to. And at the same time, science is epistemically distinct. When a scientist says they know something, it means something different than other knowledge claims in other areas of thought. I am not a scientific imperialist. It does not mean something better, but it really means something different. And the failure, I think, to make that distinction is very damaging to how we navigate the world. Science is not about being right 14:14: Science is not about being right. Science is about getting closer and closer to rightness. But scientists, we try to kill theories. That is what we do. Science is messy and sloppy 1:00:45: Science is messy and sloppy, and this is what it means when a scientist says they know something, and it is very different from when anyone else says they know something. But it is quite different from what, historically, we say it means. Why is common sense thinking toxic to scientific progress? 23:48: Common sense thinking is toxic to scientific progress because things that are common sense are often wrong. I mean, they are really helpful if you are wandering around the savanna trying to survive as a nomadic human. But when you are in the laboratory studying science, those things that work so well on the savanna are categorically incorrect. Unlearning millions of years of evolution of cognitive psychology is part of what it is to be a scientist, as you point, learning that we do not observe causality, learning that there are these confounders, learning that common sense things that are obvious may not be, is a large part of the scientific enterprise. And that is where it differs from what you are talking about—normal everyday thinking, especially statistics and other things. Show Links:Recommended Resources: Thomas KuhnRichard FeynmanKarl PopperA. J. AyerWillard Van Orman QuineNational Institutes of HealthBerengar of ToursTransubstantiationCharles Sanders PeirceConfoundingPaul FeyerabendMichel FoucaultPeter MeijerGuest Profile: Faculty Profile at the University of Virginia School of MedicineLinkedIn ProfileGuest Work: Amazon Author PageWhat Science Is and How It Really WorksPartial Truths: How Fractions Distort Our ThinkingTransfusion Medicine and HemostasisGoogle Scholar PageResearchGate Page

    1 hr
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4.6
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64 Ratings

About

unSILOed is a series of interdisciplinary conversations that inspire new ways of thinking about our world. Our goal is to build a community of lifelong learners addicted to curiosity and the pursuit of insight about themselves and the world around them.*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Information

  • Creator
    Greg La Blanc
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2025
  • Episodes
    568
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    unSILOed with Greg LaBlanc

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