A Therapist Can't Say That

Riva Stoudt
  • 4.9 (37)
  • MENTAL HEALTH
  • BIWEEKLY SERIES
A Therapist Can't Say That

Therapy is full of cliches. There are things we’ve all been taught as therapists not to question, even when we get that feeling deep down in our guts that the truth might be a bit more complicated than that. Riva Stoudt wants to talk about it. Each episode dives into a cliche, truism, or best practice of therapy to look at how it really plays out in practice. Whether you agree or not, you’ll appreciate a candid look at the things therapists don’t normally talk about.

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  1. APR 3

    Ep 3.1 - Between Mysticism and Modernity: Reclaiming the Jewishness of Therapy with hannah baer

    Raise your hand if this sounds familiar: In a group of leftie social justice therapists, someone says that therapy is a profession founded by white men. Everyone else in the room nods along and acknowledges the white male hegemonic roots of the profession, then moves on to discuss other things.  The problem with saying that white men founded therapy and is part of a white hegemonic legacy is that it just isn’t true. If you go down a list of the founders and early theorists of therapy as theory, discipline, and practice, you’ll find that many of them were Jews. Even now, many of our theory heroes and celebrity therapists are Jewish. And that’s not incidental or coincidental; it is consequential. Therapy is foundationally and elementally Jewish. To dig into therapy’s Jewish roots, I invited writer and therapist hannah baer to join me. We also talk about therapy’s relationship to Jewish mysticism and esotericism and delve into the ways in which therapy follows the Jewish tradition of marking and understanding the past. hannah baer is a writer and therapist based in New York. She is the author of the memoir trans girl suicide museum.  Listen to the full episode to hear: The conflation of survival and accumulation of privilege that has happened in many Jewish families as they have been assimilated into whitenessHow the rejection of psychoanalytic therapy is tied to the drive for assimilation into white culture and the rejection of mysticismWhy it should be okay for therapists to accept that the magic that happens in the room can’t always be explained by science or reduced to an insurance noteThe Jewishness of verbalizing and analyzing trauma, and reinterpreting historic theoryThe radical promise of therapy to help people metabolize and contextualize their trauma so they don’t repeat it on othersThe American insistence on focusing on the now or the future at the expense of grappling with and understanding the pastThe impact of consumerism on how patients approach mental health treatmentLearn more about hannah baer: trans girl suicide museumInstagram: @malefragility Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat Resources: Wikipedia: Who Is a Jew?Therapy Was Never SecularThe Gift of Therapy: An Open Letter to a New Generation of Therapists and Their Patients, Irvin YalomThe Case for God, Karen ArmstrongHannah ArendtBuilding a Life Worth Living, Marsha M. LinehanStanding Together

    1h 6m

  2. APR 17

    Ep 3.2 - Finding Our Place in the Lineage of Therapeutic Practice

    Since the last episode’s conversation with hannah baer about the Jewishness of therapy, I’ve been thinking a lot about lineage. When I first decided to do an episode on the topic, I was primarily motivated by wanting a deep sense of admiration for the Jewish pioneers of the field. Their contributions, which, like any minority group, tend to get erased as they are absorbed into the dominant culture, are invaluable and deserve explicit recognition. But our conversation and hannah’s original article also helped me connect to something more than claiming therapy’s Jewish roots and contributions to global culture. The American myth of being self-made or self-determined tends to alienate us from our lineages, but we are part of them whether we consciously engage with them or not. The history and context of our field matter, even when those histories are messy, ugly, and problematic. Contending with therapy’s history opens a dialogue between ourselves and our forebears in ways that move the profession forward and bring us together in solidarity and kinship. And that is a project worth taking on. Listen to the full episode to hear: How the American fantasy of being self-made teaches us to ignore the lineages of our practiceThe importance of pushing back against ahistoricism and divorcing concepts from their contextHow we are in relationship with our lineages, whether we are conscious of it or notWhy critiquing and rejecting what you don’t like about the field’s lineage isn’t enoughHow acknowledging our lineage opens the door to deeper camaraderie and kinship Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat

    26 min

  3. MAY 1

    Ep 3.3 - Unraveling Popular Ideas: Challenging Neuroscientific Narratives in Therapy with Kristen Martin

    If you’re a therapist in 2024, odds are you have given a client a neuroscientific explanation for a symptom they’re experiencing or an intervention you’re using. You’ve probably done it sometime in the last week. So have I. Neuroscience-based language is the lingua franca of our field nowadays. As a field, we have largely abandoned the languages of behaviorism or psychoanalysis, though there are still therapists who use those frameworks. But if you asked most therapists right now why they think what they do works, you would get an answer about the brain and nervous system. This would be fine, except that at this moment, as our scientific knowledge rapidly grows, so do our claims about what that knowledge means, sometimes outpacing real understanding of the emerging research and its practical implications. So when I encountered an article in The Washington Post titled “The Body Keeps the Score offers uncertain science in the name of self-help. It’s not alone” by writer and cultural critic Kristen Martin, I was intrigued by the way she shed light on some of the neuroscience that we increasingly use to justify what we do as therapists.  I invited Kristen to join me to unpack some of the all-too-common misrepresentations and over-interpretations and the wide-ranging implications for our field and the people we treat. Kristen Martin is a writer and cultural critic. Her debut narrative nonfiction book, The Sun Won’t Come Out Tomorrow, will be published in winter 2025. Listen to the full episode to hear: Why we are so compelled to seek out neurobiological explanations for human experiencesThe significant limitations of the research that routinely gets cited to justify neuroscientific models of mental illness and traumaHow poor communication, low science literacy, and social media exacerbate the spread of “folk neuroscience.”How neuroscientific explanations for mental health struggles are being co-opted and exploited by bad-faith actors and systemsHow biologically-based explanations for mental health issues can increase stigmaHow neurobiological models let us bypass our collective responsibilities to mitigate systemic issues associated with trauma Learn more about Kristen Martin: WebsiteTwitter: @kwistent Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat Resources: ‘The Body Keeps the Score’ offers uncertain science in the name of self-help. It’s not alone.Scanning Dead Salmon in fMRI Machine Highlights Risk of Red Herrings | WIREDCaitlin Shure, PhD Fundamental challenges and likely refutations of the five basic premises of the polyvagal theory, Paul GrossmanHow Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain, Lisa Feldman Barrett

    52 min

  4. MAY 22

    Ep 3.4 - Therapy in the Shaky Landscape of Contemporary Neuroscience

    As humans, we tend to like answers a lot more than we like questions. When we believe we have found answers, re-examining what we think of as truth is inherently destabilizing. In a relatively young field like neuroscience, paradigm shifts, misconceptions, corrections, retractions, and foundational remodels are inevitable. We already have more questions than answers, and each answer spawns a thousand more questions.  That ever-unfolding feedback loop of curiosity, seeking, and finding is beautiful. However, it also causes problems when the paradigms we’ve adopted as true turn out to be mistaken. Do we throw out therapeutic interventions that work because the neuroscientific explanation becomes irrelevant or outdated? Or do we twist the evidence to make it fit to keep using these interventions? The former seems wasteful, the latter disingenuous. So what do we do?  It's a daunting task, but acknowledging the vastness of what we don’t know or understand with certainty is a crucial step. This honesty and humility might just be the key to becoming better therapists. Listen to the full episode to hear: The high stakes of re-examining accepted paradigms for ourselves and our clientsWhy the therapy field’s longing for legitimacy makes us so prone to cling to neuroscientific conceptsWhy even rock-solid science probably still won’t erase therapy’s “weird” reputationWhy it’s worth asking ourselves how we would explain what we do if we couldn’t rely on our favored neuroscientific explanationHow over-adherence to neuroscientific explanations is fueling the toxic intraprofessional culture of therapistsWhy approaching neuroscientific concepts with humility and a grain of salt and maintaining a healthy skepticism with your clients isn’t going to kill your credibility Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat

    25 min

  5. JUN 5

    Ep 3.5 - From Childhood Wounds to Therapeutic Wisdom with Dr. Karen Maroda

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: as a group, therapists tend to have some pretty similar formative childhood experiences. Our shared experiences as parentified children not only draw us to this field, but according to today’s guest, they fundamentally influence and shape how we practice once we become therapists. This understanding can foster a sense of connection and empathy among us, enhancing our ability to relate to our clients. From the modalities and techniques we employ to the all-too-common fear of hurting our clients’ feelings, Dr. Karen Maroda asserts that how we approach our profession is deeply tied to how we were parentified. By acknowledging and examining these impacts, we can take control of our practice, helping our clients grow and ensuring a sustainable career in the field.  Dr. Maroda’s work is not just theoretical. It's a call to action, urging us to embrace clinical and personal courage. It's a roadmap, guiding us on how to navigate our roles as therapists in light of our formative childhood experiences. Karen J. Maroda, PhD, ABPP, is a psychologist/psychoanalyst in private practice in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Medical College of Wisconsin. She is the author of several books, including The Analyst's Vulnerability: Impact on Theory and Practice, and has published numerous journal articles, book chapters, and book reviews. She lectures nationally and internationally on the therapeutic process, including the place of affect, self-disclosure, countertransference, legitimate authority, and the need for clinical guidelines.  Listen to the full episode to hear: How our parentification as children can be an indicator of our potential empathic strengthsHow parentification often sets us up to be conflict-avoidant and self-sacrificing, to the detriment of ourselves and our clientsHow treating our clients as excessively fragile or infantile hinders their ability to get betterThe real antidote to feeling frustrated and disengaged with a client who’s not making progressThe relationship between our outsized fear of harming clients and our fear of our anger and frustration that was forged in childhood  Learn more about Dr. Karen Maroda: The Analyst's Vulnerability: Impact on Theory and Practice Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat Resources: Season 2 Ep 10: Client Relationships in the Trenches: The Role of Self-Validated IntimacyA Curious Calling: Unconscious Motivations for Practicing Psychotherapy, Michael B. Sussman

    58 min

  6. JUL 3

    Ep 3.6 - How to Stop Treating Your Clients Like Your Parents

    How can we stop treating our clients like our parents?  As therapists, we often share the experience of having been a parentified child, and this shared background fundamentally shapes the way we practice therapy, creating a unique bond and understanding among us. The relational patterns we developed as children, regardless of our current relationship with our parents, deeply influence how we manage our relationships with our clients. Recognizing and addressing these patterns is crucial, as repeating them without awareness can lead to disengagement, burnout, and even leaving the field entirely.  So, how can we shift our approach from treating our clients as we would our parents to treating them as independent adults? Our journey towards treating our clients as independent adults begins with acknowledging our childhood patterns and the wounds we still carry. This self-awareness is not only a path to personal growth but also a key to improving our professional practice.  Listen to the full episode to hear: How the relational programming we received in childhood can keep us and our clients stuckHow successful therapy actually replicates the foundational grief of the parentified childWhy your relationships with both your favorite and your most challenging clients might be where these relational patterns lurk the mostWhy we have to accept reciprocity and mutual gratification beyond collecting your fee in client relationshipsWhy you have to stop coddling your clients and treat them like the capable, strong adults they areWhy repressing your own emotional reactions to your clients isn’t helping them or you Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythatResources: The Analyst's Vulnerability: Impact on Theory and Practice, Dr. Karen MarodaSeason 3 Ep 5: From Childhood Wounds to Therapeutic Wisdom with Dr. Karen MarodaSeason 2 Ep 9: Immediacy in Therapy: Breaking the Fourth Wall with Dr. K Hixson

    30 min

  7. JUL 17

    Ep 3.7 - Getting Into It: Overt Conflict with Your Clients with Dr. K Hixson

    Be honest. When you think about overt conflict with a client, is your first thought that it’s a site of exciting progress, full of potential for movement? No, of course not. I don’t either. If you’re like me, and I’m guessing a lot of you are, your first reaction to actual, or even hypothetical, conflict with a client is somewhere on a spectrum from deeply uncomfortable to scared. It's a shared experience, and it's okay. It’s okay to feel uncomfortable, challenged, and even scared. But these are the moments when we have the potential to do the most transformative work for ourselves and our clients. So, let's embrace these opportunities for growth. Dr. K Hixson returns to the podcast to dive into how we can handle overt conflict with clients, including how avoiding conflict damages the therapeutic relationship, common sites of conflict, the importance of not rushing a resolution, and much more. Listen to the full episode to hear: The many factors that cause therapists to be conflict avoidant, from cultural milieu to liability fearsHow the “good therapist” myth and taboos in the field impact common sites of conflict between therapist and clientWhy we have to disentangle fear of doing harm from fear of hurt or conflictWhy we need to learn not to take responsibility for things that aren’t oursHow denying a client’s bids for conflict and not calling them on their shit can damage the relationshipHow clients benefit from our modeling, that conflict does not have to be dangerous or suppressed Learn more about Dr. K Hixson: Website Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythatResources: The Analyst's Vulnerability: Impact on Theory and Practice, Dr. Karen Maroda

    55 min

  8. AUG 7

    Ep 3.8 - The Medicine of Intimacy: Embracing Anger in Therapy

    Imagine yourself saying, “I am angry at my client.”  If you immediately need to add a whole bunch of context and caveats to make that statement feel okay, you’re not alone. Admitting that we get angry with clients is uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable with colleagues and supervisors, and it’s definitely uncomfortable with clients.  It’s even uncomfortable to admit just to ourselves. But anger is powerful, and it makes itself important, whether we want it to or not. Even the most mild-mannered, even-tempered person can experience anger towards a client at some point. It's okay, and it's a normal part of the therapeutic process. When anger presents itself, we have two options. We can repress and avoid something important, or we can choose to confront it and deal with it. As I so often tell my clients, before we reliably know what to do with a feeling, we have to actually feel it to get to know it. Expanding on last episode’s conversation with Dr. K Hixson about conflict with clients, I want to explore some of the reasons why we might get angry with clients–some situational, some due to the very nature of the therapeutic dyad–and where we go from there, even if it gets messy or uncomfortable. Listen to the full episode to hear: Why client relationships might, by their nature, be more frequent sites of anger than average interpersonal relationshipsHow guilt and shame compound our discomfort with anger and get in the way of the curiosity and possibility that come with sitting with itWhy it’s worth learning to understand our anger as a source of information about ourselves, our clients, our client relationships, or all threeHow anger is like fire or water–dangerous but capable of being handled with skill and purposeThe social and cultural forces that make us even more reluctant to admit to anger at clientsWhy we owe clients and potential clients a view of our humanity within the work Learn more about Riva Stoudt: Into the Woods CounselingThe Kiln SchoolInstagram: @atherapistcantsaythat

    22 min
See All Season 3 (13)

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4.9
out of 5
37 Ratings

About

Therapy is full of cliches. There are things we’ve all been taught as therapists not to question, even when we get that feeling deep down in our guts that the truth might be a bit more complicated than that. Riva Stoudt wants to talk about it. Each episode dives into a cliche, truism, or best practice of therapy to look at how it really plays out in practice. Whether you agree or not, you’ll appreciate a candid look at the things therapists don’t normally talk about.

Information

  • Creator
    Riva Stoudt
  • Episodes
    44
  • Seasons
    3
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2024 Riva Stoudt

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