Beyond The Interface (BTI)

Jay Tulloch, Warren Nugent

Hosted by Jay Tulloch and Warren Nugent, this podcast explores the intersection of design (UX), product management, and technology, with insights from industry leaders on leadership, trends, and hard-hitting topics.

  1. JAN 27

    Matt D Smith (MDS): Why Good Enough UI Is Holding Design Back

    Summary In this episode, Jay and Warren interview Matt D. Smith (MDS), a prominent figure in the design community known for his contributions to UI and UX design. MDS shares his journey from graphic design to user experience, discussing the evolution of design practices and the balance between artistic expression and user needs. The conversation delves into the importance of craft in design, the role of systems thinking, and the challenges of 'good enough' UI. MDS emphasizes the need for designers to push back against constraints while managing expectations and highlights the significance of intuition versus data in design decisions. He also introduces Shift Nudge, a platform aimed at bridging the skills gap in the design industry, and discusses the future of AI in design, advocating for a balanced approach to leveraging technology while maintaining design integrity. Takeaways MDS emphasizes the importance of balancing artistic expression with user experience.The evolution of design has shifted from information architecture to user experience.Craftsmanship in design is crucial, but 'good enough' UI has its place.Designers should push back against constraints while managing expectations.Systems thinking is essential for maintaining consistency in design.Intuition plays a significant role in design decisions, especially for experienced designers.Shift Nudge aims to bridge the skills gap in the design industry.Designers need to learn how to effectively use AI tools in their workflow.Asking the right questions is key to successful design collaboration.The future of design will involve a blend of traditional skills and new technologies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to MDS and His Journey 05:11 The Evolution of Design and User Experience 09:46 Craft vs. Good Enough UI 15:08 The Balance of Systems Thinking and Craft 19:45 Intuition vs. Data in Design Decisions 46:47 Crafting Effective Interfaces 50:03 The Role of Experience in Design 53:38 Transitioning from Junior to Senior Designer 56:01 The Importance of Stakeholder Management 01:00:02 Shift Nudge: Elevating Design Skills 01:07:02 Identifying Skills Gaps in Design 01:11:12 The Impact of AI on Design 01:22:33 The Future of Design with AI Where can you find Matt? https://shiftnudge.com/https://www.instagram.com/mds/https://x.com/mds Keywords design, user experience, UI, UX, Shift Nudge, craft, systems thinking, AI in design, design education, design skills

    1h 22m

  2. JAN 20

    Tim Daines: Why Designing Systems Is the Key to Agentic AI

    In this episode of Beyond The Interface, we are joined by Tim Danes, a data and AI development expert, to explore the current landscape of artificial intelligence and its implications for businesses. Tim discusses the prevalent fear of job loss due to AI advancements, emphasizing the need for individuals to adapt and upskill to remain relevant in a rapidly changing environment. He draws parallels between the current AI revolution and the early days of web development, suggesting that while many are focused on the surface-level capabilities of AI, the real potential lies in developing intelligent knowledge management systems that can integrate AI into business processes effectively. Tim's Links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-daines/ https://www.thecambridgelabs.com/ai-toolbox Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to AI and Its Impact 02:23 Understanding LLMs and Their Role 06:40 The Need for Intelligent Knowledge Management 12:23 Designing Memory Systems for AI 16:32 Strategizing AI Implementation 20:44 The Role of Product Managers in AI Development 25:08 Benchmarking AI Effectiveness 32:21 The Importance of Critical Thinking in AI Adoption 33:50 The Role of System Prompts in AI 41:18 Building AI Skills in the Workforce 47:09 AI's Potential in Leadership Roles 51:32 The Risks of AI and Perception of Reality 59:24 Future Trends in AI Architecture

    1h 6m

  3. JAN 6

    Leopold Ajami: Mastering Influence and the Art of Persuasion

    In this conversation, Leopold discusses the principles of influence and persuasion, emphasizing the importance of ethical practices in coaching and communication. He explores the psychological aspects of decision-making, particularly the roles of System One and System Two thinking. Leopold provides insights on how designers can effectively influence stakeholders and the significance of public speaking in building confidence and credibility. He also addresses the potential impact of AI on communication and the necessity of maintaining human connection in the process. Learn more from Leopold The Pixel Debate Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Influence and Coaching 05:40 Principles of Influence in Coaching 10:49 Ethics in Persuasion and Influence 15:56 Understanding System One and System Two Thinking 22:10 Designing Decisions and Influencing Stakeholders 28:03 The Role of Designers in Influence 34:04 Building Confidence and Conviction in Presentations 40:04 Public Speaking: Overcoming Fear and Engaging the Audience 54:13 The Future of AI in Public Speaking and Influence

    1 hr

  4. 12/09/2025

    Nathalie Salas: The alchemist mindset is crucial for transforming industries.

    In this episode, Natalie Salas, an experienced service designer and community builder, shares her journey into service design, emphasizing the importance of a holistic approach and the alchemist mindset. She discusses the challenges of integrating service design within organizations, the impact of AI on the design process, and the innovative Pixel Debates format she has created to foster open dialogue and critical thinking in the design community. The conversation highlights the need for designers to think beyond traditional roles and embrace a systems thinking approach to drive meaningful change. Links: Nathalie's LinkedIn The Pixel Debate Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Service Design and Natalie Salas 04:54 The Journey into Service Design 09:55 Understanding Service Design: Definitions and Mindset 14:43 The Role of Service Design in Organizations 19:44 Becoming an Alchemist: The Future of Design 24:57 Service Design in the UAE: Opportunities and Challenges 40:37 Navigating Enterprise Systems with Agility 41:49 The Transformative Power of AI in Service Design 46:45 Understanding AI's Role in Design and Decision Making 52:14 The Importance of Systems Thinking in Design 58:37 Pixel Debates: A New Approach to Design Conversations 01:11:33 Adapting to the Changing Job Market 01:16:30 The Future of Pixel Debates and Community Engagement

    1h 19m

  5. 11/25/2025

    Joe Fletcher: The Evolution of Design in the Age of AI

    In this episode, we're with Joe Fletcher, discussing his journey in the tech industry, particularly in UX and AI. We explore the importance of understanding the history of design, the evolving landscape of AI, and how it impacts job roles in design. Joe emphasizes the need for adaptability, continuous learning, and the creative application of knowledge in the face of rapidly changing technology. The conversation also touches on team dynamics, the importance of input in AI, and the necessity of challenging traditional design processes to foster innovation. Links: Joe's Podcast Joe's LinkedIn Chapters: 00:00 Introduction and Background of Joe Fletcher 04:44 Adapting to the AI Landscape 09:32 The Importance of Understanding Fundamentals 12:51 Input vs Output in AI 19:06 The Future of Design Jobs 26:14 Coaching and Mindset in Design 31:27 Balancing Learning and Leadership 34:51 Embracing AI in Design 38:12 Challenging Traditional Design Processes 41:54 The Future of Design Teams 49:18 The Evolving Role of the Unicorn 54:19 Mindset and Adaptability in Design

    1h 2m

  6. 11/11/2025

    Jarvis Moore: True Creativity Thrives on Structure, the Power of Design Systems

    Summary In this episode, Jarvis Moore (Design Systems: LinkedIn & Microsoft) discusses the intricacies of design systems, sharing his journey from graphic design to specializing in this niche. He emphasizes the importance of understanding design systems, the roles of designers and developers, and the balance between flexibility and rigidity. The conversation also covers the significance of collaboration, governance, and measuring success in design systems, as well as the impact of AI on the future of design. Jarvis provides insights on how to get started with design systems, the importance of creativity within constraints, and the challenges of managing design debt. Takeaways Design systems are essential for cohesive product development.Creativity can flourish within the structure of design systems.Governance is crucial for maintaining a successful design system.Design debt can accumulate if not managed properly.AI has the potential to assist in managing design systems.Collaboration between teams enhances the effectiveness of design systems.Flexibility and rigidity must be balanced in design systems.Getting leadership buy-in is vital for design system success.Insight into the design landscape is key for governance.The journey into design systems is unique for each individual. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Design Systems and Jarvis Moore's Journey 02:59 Understanding Design Systems: Misconceptions and Realities 05:46 Defining a Design System: Foundations and Flexibility 08:54 Getting Started with Design Systems: Initial Steps and Champions 12:02 The Role of Developers and Designers in Design Systems 14:57 Balancing Creativity and Structure in Design Systems1 7:46 Processes and Collaboration in Design Systems 20:52 Building a Centralized vs. Decentralized Design System Team 23:54 The Importance of Embedded Engineers in Design Systems 26:49 Convincing Leadership: The Business Case for Design Systems 29:43 The Future of Design Systems: Headless Systems and Design Tokens 44:31 The Importance of Design Tokens 47:43 AI and Design Systems: A New Era 50:17 Automating Design Processes with AI 55:39 Navigating Design Debt in Systems 58:41 Governance in Design Systems 01:05:36 Measuring the Success of Design Systems Links to Jarvis’ Interaction Design Foundation Courses DESIGN SYSTEMS BLUEPRINT AI FOR DESIGN SYSTEMS: HOW TO STAY AHEAD AND LEAD

    1h 11m

  7. 10/29/2025

    Daniel Tuitt: Designing Across Borders! Culture, Influence, and the Future of Service Design

    Summary In this conversation, Daniel shares his experiences living between Dubai and Riyadh, highlighting the cultural differences and unique aspects of each city. He discusses the importance of embracing diversity and learning from global experiences, particularly in the context of design and technology. Daniel emphasises the evolving design landscape in Saudi Arabia, the significance of mentorship, and the role of service design in enhancing customer experiences. He also addresses the challenges and opportunities presented by technology adoption in the region, advocating for a balanced approach that prioritises human interaction alongside technological advancements. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the evolving landscape of service design, the impact of AI on design careers, and the essential skills needed for success in a competitive job market. They discuss the importance of reflection, mentorship, and resilience, while also exploring how to identify top talent and the role of influence in leadership. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the nuances of influence in decision-making, the evolving role of AI in leadership, and the importance of adapting leadership styles to meet team needs. They discuss the challenges of managing direct reports, fostering a collaborative design community, and the significance of a holistic design perspective. The conversation culminates in reflections on the future of service design leadership and the skills necessary for designers to thrive in strategic roles. Takeaways Daniel enjoys the cultural diversity between Dubai and Riyadh.Riyadh has unique cultural aspects that differ from Dubai.Travelling has helped Daniel adapt to various cultures.Mentoring the next generation of designers is fulfilling for Daniel.Saudi Arabia is evolving with Vision 2030.The design maturity in Saudi Arabia is growing but still developing.Technology adoption in Saudi Arabia is influenced by local culture.Service design connects customer experience with business strategy.Understanding the Saudi customer requires cultural sensitivity.Service design is essential for organisations to make informed decisions. Service design simplifies complex issues for better understanding.Anyone can be a designer; it's about problem-solving.AI is changing the landscape for junior designers.Curiosity and storytelling are key skills for designers.Resilience is crucial in navigating career challenges.Reflection journals help in personal and professional growth.The job market is competitive; unique skills are essential.Mentorship can provide valuable insights and guidance.AI can enhance but not replace human creativity.Influence is vital for effective leadership. Influence is about helping others make the best decisions.Understanding stakeholders' perspectives is crucial for effective influence.AI may change the dynamics of decision-making in leadership.Effective communication is key to preventing micromanagement.Leaders should adapt their styles to fit team members' needs.Building a collaborative design community enhances creativity.A holistic view of design helps break down silos in organisations.Service design can evolve through strategic thinking and influence.Leadership requires understanding the context of team members' lives.AI can be a tool for leaders to enhance team performance. Keywords Dubai, Riyadh, cultural insights, design evolution, mentorship, technology, customer experience, service design, Saudi Arabia, global experiences, Service Design, AI Impact, Design Careers, Job Market, Reflection, Mentorship, A-Players, Skills Landscape, Influence, Leadership, influence, decision making, AI, leadership, team dynamics, service design, collaboration, design community, holistic perspective, leadership styles

    1h 33m

  8. 10/14/2025

    Darren Hood: Why UX needs gatekeepers: Saving the discipline from itself

    In this engaging conversation, Darren Hood shares his extensive journey in the UX field, discussing the evolution of user experience design, the importance of emotional intelligence, and the challenges faced in UX leadership. He emphasises the need for humility and understanding within the discipline, while also addressing the misconceptions that persist in the industry. The discussion highlights the significance of UX maturity and the role of effective leadership in advocating for user experience. In this conversation, Darren Hood discusses the complexities of UX maturity, the misconceptions surrounding UX/UI, and the importance of gatekeeping in the field. He critiques the effectiveness of boot camps in preparing individuals for UX roles and emphasises the need for a solid educational foundation. The discussion also delves into the implications of AI in UX, highlighting the necessity for human expertise in navigating the evolving landscape of user experience design. KEY TAKEAWAYS The organic nature of many UX careers.The evolution of UX has seen a shift from intuitive design to a more structured approach, yet misunderstandings persist.Emotional intelligence is crucial in UX, as many practitioners lack self-awareness and humility.The misconception of UX roles leads to hiring unqualified individuals, impacting the discipline's integrity.UX is an infinite science, requiring continuous adaptation and learning.The importance of UX maturity management is often overlooked in organizations.Leadership in UX requires a deep understanding of both UX principles and business needs.Many aspiring leaders in UX may not have the right motivations or qualifications for leadership roles.The visual appeal of design often overshadows the actual impact of UX work in hiring decisions.A strong UX leader must advocate for the discipline and ensure proper representation within organizations. A company lacking UX maturity emphasizes aesthetics over functionality.The abstract nature of UX makes it difficult for some to understand its value.Many people mistakenly conflate UX with UI due to popular trends.Gatekeeping in UX is essential for maintaining quality and standards.Boot camps often fail to provide the depth of knowledge needed for UX roles.University programs offer a more structured approach to UX education than boot camps.AI's high error rates raise concerns about its reliability in UX design.Experts are crucial in interpreting and validating AI-generated designs.UX is fundamentally a strategic role, not merely focused on visuals.Respecting the history and foundations of UX is vital for future growth.

    1h 54m
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About

Hosted by Jay Tulloch and Warren Nugent, this podcast explores the intersection of design (UX), product management, and technology, with insights from industry leaders on leadership, trends, and hard-hitting topics.

Information

  • Creator
    Jay Tulloch, Warren Nugent
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    28
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Jay Tulloch, Warren Nugent
  • Show Website
    Beyond The Interface (BTI)

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