Dyscastia Michael Shanahan & Bill Hansberry

In this episode, we have Liana McCurry back to talk about her Churchill Fellowship findings on what the top PISA performing countries are doing with maths instruction and how we can use that information to improve outcomes for kids living with learning difficulties.





Show notes










Liana McCurry’s Churchill Fellowship has come just in time. Liana travelled abroad to investigate best practices in teaching mathematics that provide the best outcomes for all students.
Australia’s PISA ranking plummeted from 10th internationally in 2003 to 30th in 2018, where it fell below the average for the first time. How we teach mathematics in Australia is the prime suspect for this decline. 
Dyscastia Episode 14 was recorded prior to Liana’s departure, where we discussed intervention in Maths. 
Early in the conversation, constructivist learning theories are discussed as a big part of the problem in the context of how this approach to learning and teaching exacerbates cycles of social disadvantage. Anyone who taught in the late 80s and 90s in Australia has (tried) to work with curriculum frameworks that are broadly based on constructivist theories. 
In discussing the differences between the curricula of the countries Liana visited and Australia’s mathematics curriculum, Ben Jensen’s work was mentioned. The ERRR Podcast #77 is well worth a listen if you want to know more about the shortcomings of Australia’s curriculum. 
Greg Ashman gets a mention, as Greg is an outspoken critic of the direction of the Australian maths curriculum. Greg recently gave an excellent interview on the Science of Reading Podcast, where he gives a stunning account of cognitive load theory. Greg also sits on the other side of the mic in his own podcast, where he and Amanda VanDerHeyden talk maths instruction.  
 


























 
Comments and questions are welcome!










We would love to hear about your experiences teaching mathematics directly and explicitly as opposed to other methods. We’re also interested in your experiences with bringing review and maths fluency into your instructional approaches. If you’ve taught in any of the countries Liana visited, we’d love to hear your reflections. 





 

In this episode, we chat about daily review with David Morkunas, current head of teacher efficacy at Brandon Park Primary School, previously a teacher at Bentleigh West Primary School.
 








David Morkunas is a primary school teacher from Melbourne and currently works at Brandon Park Primary School, where his role is to help support whole school improvement in maths. David first made a name for himself by speaking about the importance of Daily Review at conferences, including Sharing Best Practice and ResearchED. David is a fierce advocate for evidence-based teaching and learning, with a particular interest in how knowledge is transferred to long-term memory.
 










Bill first met David as a graduate teacher while running the Bentleigh West Primary School Study Tour for South Australian educators, and he and David have remained in touch since. 













Show notes










In this episode, Michael and Bill talk with David about something very close to all our hearts – review. Anybody working in the explicit (direct) instruction and evidence-informed instruction space has become familiar with the importance of deliberately planned and scheduled review of previously learned material. For educators new to review, it’s a case of “Where have you been all my life?” 
Once maligned as non-progressive  ‘rote learning’ or ‘drill and kill’ in teaching circles, review has come back to classrooms with a vengeance, and teachers are seeing the difference in student learning outcomes. 
Review is strongly supported by evidence and features in Barak Rosenshine’s Principles of Instruction. 
We cover a wide range of topics and ideas in this episode. David mentions EDI (Explicit Direct Instruction) as an instructional method used at his previous school, Bentleigh West Primary School. 
The conversation moves to the role of review for transferring new information into long-term memory. Bill mentions a Research Ed talk by Emeritus Professor John Sweller (the father of Cognitive Load Theory), which discusses the narrow limits of change principle, a master stroke of evolution which made working memory a protective mechanism for long-term memory due to its extremely limited ability to deal with novel information, thus making it very difficult for new information to change long term memory without multiple repetitions. 
Shortly after, David mentions Ebbinghaus’s forgetting curve, a famous model teachers use to explain the importance of spaced reviews to lessen the rate at which newly learned information degrades over time after being first learned (flatten the curve of forgetting). 
The importance of gaining and holding student attention first and foremost is discussed, and David mentions an episode of the ERRR podcast where the importance of having students pay attention is discussed and how this supersedes any other instructional/pedagogical considerations. OCHRE Education gets a few mentions from as a source of materials schools can use if they aren’t building their teaching materials in-house.
The difference between active review and students just reciting what is on a screen is discussed. David explains that students must actively pull something (retrieving) from long-term memory in active review. This distinction is explored, and David mentions a conversation with Ingrid Sealey from Teach Well that changed some of his thinking on how to structure the review. 
Spaced retrieval apps are mentioned as a way for us (grownups) to learn new things. One such app is Anki, which both David and Bill have used. 
Next, the question of when to review is tossed around, and David, Michael and Bill search for the holy grail – some rule of thumb or algorithm that tells us when the best time to review information is. Bill talks about how, in the Playberry Laser Literacy Program, he and his colleagues are always thinking about how to achieve the review sweet spot. 
Success comes up as the driver

Sue Griffith




















Sue is a registered teacher with many years of experience in primary teaching. She has specialist Maths training in programs designed to support students experiencing difficulties or delays in Maths skills, including students with dyscalculia and/or dyslexia.
QuickSmart Numeracy Intervention
Ron Yoshimoto Multisensory Maths program – based on the Orton-Gillingham principles
Singapore Maths
Sue designs individual courses that are explicit, structured, multisensory and manipulative-based for students who are underachieving in Maths. Programs utilised are all evidence-based interventions. Students learn to think mathematically and develop understanding beyond rote memorisation. Programs focus on fostering a positive attitude towards Maths and the foundational skills, including but not limited to:
Place value and the decimal system
Basic Mathematical operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division
Basic number fact knowledge and multiplication tables
Fractions, decimals, percentages and ratios
Problem solving strategies
Application of Number knowledge to concepts of Time, Money and Measurement
Sue also offers young people support in Literacy.
She has specialist training in ‘Teaching Students with Dyslexia’ and follows the Multi-Sensory Playberry Dyslexia Program which is based on the Orton-Gillingham approach.
Sue also has a Graduate Diploma in Education, specialising in Literacy and Language.
Sue designs literacy support programs such as ‘The Writing Process’ to suit individual student needs.
Sue believes all children can succeed in improving their reading, writing and mathematical skills. Please contact her to discuss how she can best support your child in their learning.













Lilly Shanahan




















Lilly Shanahan is a dedicated Year 12 student at Sacred Heart College in Adelaide, South Australia. As someone who lives with dyslexia and dyscalculia, Lilly has navigated a variety of educational settings and individual learning plans (ILPs) throughout her academic journey.
Her varied experiences in different school environments have given her a unique understanding of the challenges and opportunities presented by learning with specific learning disabilities (SLDs). Lilly’s personal insights into effective ILP strategies are invaluable.
As a guest interviewee in this episode, Lilly shares her firsthand experiences and offers practical advice for kids, parents, and teachers. Her contributions provide a relatable and insightful perspective on how to navigate and optimize ILPs, making her story a source of inspiration and guidance for those facing similar educational challenges.













Show notes










During the episode, we mention a few things that may not be familiar to every listener. We always try to be as accurate as possible about what we say in all Dyscastia Podcasts. However, things do change, and if we have accidentally omitted information or something we have said is no longer the case, particularly in regards to policies in the individualised education plan space. 
Here are some links that might help.
Special Provisions in Exams: 
Students can apply in all states of Australia for special provisions in tests and exams. Different authorities generally for a documented history of special provisions for timed assessments. IEPs that document special assessment provisions will be an important part of this evidence.
South Australian Certificate of Education (SACE)
Currently, South Australia looks to have the best information page of all the states and territories. This section of the SACE Board website provides information on how students can apply for the types of special provisions discussed during this episode.
A quick look took me to these pages for other States and Territories:
Victoria: Special provisions Fact Sheet
New South Wales: Disability provisions for exams
Queensland: Access arrangements and reasonable adjustments (A

In this episode, we chat with math teaching expert Liana McCurry. We delve into best practices for all students when teaching maths. We hope Liana's insights will help create inclusive learning environments where every child can succeed.
For the full show notes, including Liana's R-6 scope, sequence and content breakdown, visit our website.
https://dyscastia.com/episodes/episode-14-maths-and-learning-difficulties/

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