On Humans Ilari Mäkelä
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- Science
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Where do we come from? What brings us together? Why do we love? Why do we destroy?
On Humans Podcast features conversations with leading scholars about human nature, human condition, and the human journey. From the origins of war to the psychology of love, each topic brings fresh insights into perennial questions about our self-understanding.
Support: Patreon.com/OnHumans
Articles: OnHumans.Substack.com
About your host: Ilari Mäkelä is a London-based science communicator with training in Philosophy and Psychology at Oxford and Peking Universities.
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39 | Did We Evolve To Live In Small Groups? ~ Cecilia Padilla-Iglesias
Modern cities are unique. Never before have so many people lived so close to each other. But just how unique is our modern cosmopolitanism?
Completely unique, says a traditional theory.
Humans evolved to live in groups. These groups were not only smaller than modern cities. They were smaller than medieval towns. Indeed, hunter-gatherers often move in bands of 25 people or so. These bands might draw people from a "meta-group" of 150 people — but not more. And so, 150 people is the natural group size for humans. Or so the theory goes.
My guest today disagrees.
Cecilia Padilla-Iglesias is an evolutionary ecologist who studies hunter-gatherer societies. And her work points to a very different conclusion. Yes, hunter-gatherers spend much of their time in small bands. But these bands can form much larger groups of connections, extending further and further away, even to areas with different languages. Even in the rainforest, cosmopolitanism is the norm.
So what do hunter-gatherer societies look like? And are they really good models of our deep past? We discuss these and other topics in this episode, touching upon topics such as:
(04:00) Living with hunter-gatherers
(10:30) Fluid societies
(14:20) Dunbar’s mistake
(17:20) Dawkins’s mistake
(21:20) ANcient DNA of hunter-gatherers
(23:20) What made Sapiens special?
(25:40) Mobility, diversity, and technology
(28:20) Sympathy and xenophobia
(34:00) Ancient DNA (again)
(41:30) Jungle cosmopolitanism
(43:40) Was agriculture a mistake?
As always, we end with my guest's reflections on humanity.
LINKS
Want to support the show? Checkout Patreon.com/OnHumans
Want to read and not just listen? Get the newsletter on OnHumans.Substack.com
MENTIONS
Names: Richard Dawkins, Kim Hill, David Reich, Andrea Migliano
Books: God Delusion (Dawkins), Who We Are And How We Got Here (Reich), The Human Swarm (Moffett)
Ethnic groups: Bayaka (Congo), Hadza (Tanzania), Ache (Paraguay), Agta (Philippines)
Articles: For links to articles, see OnHumans.Substack.com/p/Links-for-Episode-39-Hunter-Gatherer -
38 | Can We Understand Infinity? ~ Adrian Moore
Infinity is a puzzling idea. Even young children are fascinated by its various manifestations: What is the biggest number? Does the universe have an edge? Does time have a beginning?
Philosophers have tried to answer these questions since time immemorial. More recently, they have been joined by scientists and mathematicians. Indeed, a whole branch of mathematics has become dedicated to the study of infinity.
So what have we learned? Can we finally understand infinity? And what has this quest taught us about ourselves?
To explore this topic, I am joined by philosopher Adrian W. Moore.
Professor Moore is a special guest for two reasons. First, he is a world expert on infinity, known for an excellent BBC series, "History of the Infinite". More personally, he is the head tutor of Philosophy at St Hugh’s College, Oxford, where I studied my BA in Philosophy and Psychology. It has now been ten years since Prof Moore interviewed me and, for whatever reason, accepted me as a student. I feel honoured to mark the occasion with this episode.
In this episode, we discuss:
(02:35) Why infinity fascinates
(12:20) Greeks on infinity
(20:05) A finite cosmos?
(25:00) Zeno’s paradoxes
(32:35) Answering Zeno
(42:35) Measuring infinities? Georg Cantor
(54:05) Infinity vs human understanding
(66:20) Mystics on infinity
As always, we finish with Prof Moore’s reflections on humanity.
LINKS
Want to support the show? Checkout Patreon.com/OnHumans
Want to read and not just listen? Get the newsletter on OnHumans.Substack.com
MENTIONS
Names: Aristotle; Zeno; Archytus; Ludwig Wittgenstein; Kurt Gödel; Alan Turing; Georg Cantor; William Blake; Immanuel Kant
Terms: Pythagoreans; Zeno’s paradoxes; calculus; transfinite arithmetic; counting numbers, i.e. positive integers; absolute infinities, or inconsistent totalities
Books: The Infinite (Moore)
Other scholarship: For games on infinite boards, see e.g. the work of Davide Leonessi: https://leonessi.org/ -
37 | How Did Humans Evolve? Why Did We? ~ Ian Tattersall
Why are we furless? Why do we cook our food and use spoken language? And how does climate change, sashimi, or the banks of Central America relate to human origins?
Human evolution is a deeply puzzling topic. But behind this dense mist lies many keys to our self-understanding. To guide us through the foggy territory, I am joined by Dr Ian Tattersall, a curator emeritus at the American Museum of Natural History (New York).
In this episode, Dr Tattersall and I discuss:
(04.00) An ancient climate change
(07:20) First humans
(11:20) Fire
(17:50) Fish
(21:40) Rocks
(24:00) Evolution vs Innovation
(25:30) Brain growth
(36:10) Children
(39:50) Language
(48:20) Why?
As always, we finish with Dr Tattersall's reflections on humanity.
LINKS
Want to support the show? Checkout Patreon.com/OnHumans
Want to read and not just listen? Get the newsletter on OnHumans.Substack.com
MENTIONS
Names: Richard Wrangham (see ep. 21), Susan Schaller, Ildefonso, Jane Goodall, Sarah Blaffer Hrdy, Yuval Noah Harari
Books: Masters of the Planet (Tattersall), Man Without Words (Schaller), Sapiens (Harari)
Technical terms: Oldowan tool culture (first stone tools, c. 2.5 million years ago), Acheulean hand axe (first major update in stone tools, c. 1.6 million years ago)
Fossils: Lucy (3.2 million years old); Turkana Boy (aka. Nariokotome Boy, 1.6 million years old)
Hominin species: Australopithecines, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo sapiens
A note on hominin taxonomy: Homo habilis was traditionally considered the first human and the first maker of stone tools. Dr Tattersall is among the many critics of this old idea. According to him and many others, there is no separate tool-making species called Homo habilis. Rather, Australopithecines started making stone tools without any change in the biology of the species. Also, it is worth noting that Dr Tattersall rejects the traditional view which gives a big role for Homo erectus in the human story. In this traditional view, Turkana Boy’s species, Homo ergaster, is called an African Homo erectus. Dr Tattersall and many others argue that this is a historic hangover with little basis in the biological evidence. -
36 | How Did Consciousness Evolve? Did It? ~ Eva Jablonka
We are conscious creatures. But why? Why did consciousness evolve? Can we use biology to explain the origins of feeling and meaning? Or will consciousness forever escape the grip of the scientific method?
Eva Jablonka has thought hard about these issues. An eminent evolutionary biologist, she became famous for her pioneering work on epigenetic inheritance. More recently, she has produced very original work on the evolution of consciousness with her colleague, neuroscientist Simona Ginsburg. So invited him on the show to discuss the evolution of consciousness, or what she beautifully calls "the sensitive soul".
In this episode, we discuss themes such as:
(03:00) What is consciousness?
(10:45) Four links between evolution and consciousness
(27:30) Are robots conscious? Consciousness and vulnerability
(30:45) Which animals are conscious? Consciousness and the Cambrian Explosion.
(34:30) Can science fully explain consciousness?
(48:00) The future of consciousness
As always, we end with Jablonka’s reflections on humanity.
LINKS
Want to support the show? Checkout Patreon.com/OnHumans
Want to read and not just listen? Get the newsletter on OnHumans.Substack.com
MENTIONS
Books: Evolution of the Sensitive Soul, Picturing the Mind (both my Eva Jablonka & Simona Ginsburg)
Terms: Sensitive soul, phenomenal consciousness, intentionality (i.e. "aboutness"), the Cambrian explosion, cephalopods, anthropods, vertebrates
Names: Aristotle, Simona Ginsburg, Jonathan Birch, Antonio Damasio -
35 | Why Do We Love? ~ Arthur Aron
Why do we love? What brings us together? How to heal ethnic hatred?
According to my guest, the answer to all these questions lies in the human desire to grow ourselves through connecting with others.
Arthur Aron is a psychologist who studies human bonding in all its forms. A pioneer in the field, he has studied topics from connecting with strangers to maintaining romance in life-long marriages. And many of his findings are ultimately hopeful.
In this conversation, we discuss topics such as:
(4:30) Why we love
(12:50) Tools to cultivate love
(24:30) Friendships with the ethnic "other”
(31:30) Are we naturally xenophobic?
MENTIONS
Names: Elaine Aron, Helen Fisher, Stephen Wright
Articles: For links to videos, articles, and the 36 Questions, see https://onhumans.substack.com/p/links-for-episode-35
MORE LINKS
Read the On Humans newsletter at OnHumans.Substack.com
Support On Humans at Patreon.com/OnHumans -
Mental Health Bonus | The Origins of ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression ~ Nikhil Chaudhary
Can evolution shed light on our mental health?
Nikhil Chaudhary thinks so. He is an anthropologist at the University of Cambridge who specialises in the links between evolution and psychiatry. In this clip, Dr Chaudhary explores the evolutionary origins of ADHD, depression, and anxiety.
For our longer conversation on parenting and family life, see episode 34 of the On Humans Podcast.
Customer Reviews
Thoughtful and eye opening conversations...
With amazing people from different areas. Strongly advised to expand your horizon!
I love it!
Fantastical and thoughtful. I have found each episode to be profound and thought provoking in its own way. Truly influencing my perspective as how to approach and navigate the vagaries of life.