627 episodes

The Gray Area with host Sean Illing is a philosophical take on culture, politics, and everything in between. We don’t pretend to have the answers, but we do offer a space for real dialogue. Resist certainty, embrace ambiguity, and get some cool takes on a very hot world. Formerly the Vox Conversations podcast. New episodes drop every Monday.

The Gray Area with Sean Illing Vox

    • Society & Culture
    • 4.5 • 10K Ratings

The Gray Area with host Sean Illing is a philosophical take on culture, politics, and everything in between. We don’t pretend to have the answers, but we do offer a space for real dialogue. Resist certainty, embrace ambiguity, and get some cool takes on a very hot world. Formerly the Vox Conversations podcast. New episodes drop every Monday.

    Is America getting meaner?

    Is America getting meaner?

    Sean Illing and David Brooks talk about Brooks’s recent essay, “How America Got Mean.” They discuss the country's moral history, how politics and culture have shifted our perception of connection and community, and what can be done to make things nicer.
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: David Brooks (@nytdavidbrooks), author and op-ed columnist
    References: 

    “How America Got Mean” by David Brooks (The Atlantic, August 2023)


    How to Know a Person by David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2023)


    The Road to Character by David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2016)


    The Social Animal by David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2012)


    The Upswing: How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Again by Robert D. Putnam (Simon & Schuster, 2021)


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    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Patrick Boyd


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


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    • 54 min
    Naomi Klein on her doppelganger (and yours)

    Naomi Klein on her doppelganger (and yours)

    Every generation thinks they’re living through the strangest times, but is our generation right? Sean Illing speaks with writer and activist Naomi Klein about her new book, Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World. They discuss how a much different Naomi — her doppelganger — scrambled her professional life and led to an unexpected plunge into the ironies and absurdities of our digital world.
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: Naomi Klein (@NaomiAKlein), author of Doppelganger and the co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice
    References: 
    Doppelganger by Naomi Klein (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)
    The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (Picador, 2008)
    No Logo: No Space, No Choice, No Jobs by Naomi Klein (Picador, 1999)
    Backlash by Susan Faludi (1991)
    The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power by Shoshana Zuboff (PublicAffairs, 2019)
    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
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    Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Patrick Boyd


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


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    • 57 min
    Should we press pause on AI?

    Should we press pause on AI?

    How worried should we be about AI? Sean Illing is joined by Stuart J. Russell, a professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI. Russell was among the signatories who wrote an open letter asking for a six-month pause on AI training. They discuss the dangers of losing control of AI and what the upsides of this rapidly developing technology could be. 
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: Stuart J. Russell, professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI
    References: 

    Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter


    “AI has much to offer humanity. It could also wreak terrible harm. It must be controlled.” by Stuart Russell (The Observer, April 2023)


    Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach by Stuart J. Russell and Peter Norvig (Pearson Education International) 


    Human-Compatible: Artificial Intelligence and the Problem of Control by Stuart Russell (Penguin Random House, 2020)


    “A Conversation With Bing’s Chatbot Left Me Deeply Unsettled” by Kevin Roose (New York Times, February 2023)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
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    Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Patrick Boyd


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


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    • 57 min
    Democracy’s existential crisis

    Democracy’s existential crisis

    Why is democracy worth saving? Sean Illing is joined by Astra Taylor, the author of the new book The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart. They discuss the history and reality of insecurity and how we can fight for more sustainable and meaningful democratic politics.
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: Astra Taylor (@astradisastra), author, The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart 
    References: 


    The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart by Astra Taylor (House of Anansi Press, 2023)


    “What is democracy?” by Astra Taylor 


    The Waste Makers by Vance Packard (Longmans, Green and Co. Ltd, 1960)


    Decades of Decadence: How Our Spoiled Elites Blew America's Inheritance of Liberty, Security, and Prosperity by Marco Rubio (HarperCollins, 2023) 


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
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    Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Patrick Boyd


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


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    • 51 min
    Conservative socialism?

    Conservative socialism?

    What will American politics look like after Trump? Sean Illing is joined by Sohrab Ahmari to discuss his new book, Tyranny, Inc. Ahmari is one of the conservative intellectuals trying to map out a post-Trump future for the Republican Party, and his book is an attempt to justify a form of democratic socialism from the right. The two discuss whether his vision could ever be the basis for a broader coalition.
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: Sohrab Ahmari (@SohrabAhmari), author, Tyranny, Inc.
    References: 


    Tyranny, Inc. by Sohrab Ahmari (Penguin Random House, 2023)


    American Capitalism: The Concept of Countervailing Power by John Galbraith (Routledge, 1993)


    Thus Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche


    “Social Democracy and Social Conservatism Aren’t Compatible” by Matt McManus (Jacobin, August 2023)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.
    Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Erica Huang


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


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    • 55 min
    The benefits of utopian thinking

    The benefits of utopian thinking

    Why don’t we spend more time imagining a better future? Sean Illing is joined by Kristen R. Ghodsee, the author of Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life. They discuss why it’s hard to imagine better outcomes in life, what we can learn from experimental living communities, and what the pandemic proved about our adaptability.
    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area
    Guest: Kristen R. Ghodsee, author, Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life
    References:
    Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life by Kristen R. Ghodsee (Simon & Schuster, 2023)
    Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence by Kristen R. Ghodsee (Hachette, 2018)
    Life of Pythagoras, or Pythagoric Life, by (Chalcidensis) Iamblichus
    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.
    Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
    This episode was made by: 


    Engineer: Erica Huang


    Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall


    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    • 53 min

Customer Reviews

4.5 out of 5
10K Ratings

10K Ratings

Billybill1984 ,

Excellent

Always great

CEG 2316 ,

David Brooks Interview

Interesting discussion. What I think David Brooks misses is the notion that in a society with very few safety nets where we are told that it is our responsibility to provide for all of our own needs it is a matter of survival for a lot of the population. This contributes to the individualistic point of view and a me first mentality. I would be interested to know if the same thing occurs in countries where strong safety nets support the citizens. DB seemed to imply that those countries don’t have the same challenges.

yiela ,

Love the podcast

Great topics and guests.

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