“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies Turpentine

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan engage in a heartfelt discussion with Todd Olson, CEO and founder of Pendo.
Todd shares his personal and professional journey, from his early days as a developer to his current role as CEO. He provides deep insights into leadership, his unique hiring process, and why he believes HR is essential to business success where human connection and vulnerability are prioritized.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
LINKS:
Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/
HR Heretics podcast with JR Rettig: Building Legendary Teams: Trust, Transition, and Quality with JR Rettig of Pendo

LINKEDIN:Todd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddaolsonNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Introduction
(03:00) Typecasting and the importance of being the CEO
(05:00) Co-founder dynamics at Pendo
(09:00) The CEO card and cultural decisions
(12:00) Blending human elements with leadership
(16:00) The impact of personal life on leadership
(17:13) Sponsors: Workvivo | Attio
(19:47) Todd on Elon Musk
(21:00) Building a culture of followership
(24:00) Hiring practices
(27:00) The "why" behind joining Pendo
(31:00) Interviewing Senior SDRs
(34:00) CEO involvement in offer review
(37:00) Hiring executives
(41:00) The first 90 days of an executive
(45:00) The role of HR in 2024
(50:00) Hiring a head of HR









This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli explore the rising trend of replacing managers with coaches, examining the pros and cons of this model and its potential impact on employee development.
They also discuss the practicalities of implementing a coach-based management model, including the role of functional expertise and the need for rapid onboarding of coaches.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Introduction & The Big Changes in Tech
(01:40) Tweaking the System
(02:52) The NVIDIA Model: Pros and Cons
(04:14) One-On-Ones and The Middle Ground
(6:00) The Importance of Spontaneous Communication
(07:18) Sponsor: Attio
(08:15) Skillset and Capability Considerations
(09:09) Assessing Candidates for New Environments
(11:07) The Canva Model: External Coaches
(13:00) Executive Coaching vs Functional Coaching
(13:53) Wrap





This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church welcome Michelle Delcambre, an operating partner at Felicis (and formerly of Stripe & Databricks), to discuss company growth trajectories, and strategic HR practices around talent, comp, and exits.
Michelle shares the development of Felicis’ ‘Benchmark Your Org' tool — which you can access here — it’s a free platform utilizing data from 15,000 companies, updated monthly, to help founders benchmark organizational growth. This conversation, which is one of Nolan's favorite episodes of the year, covers common founder mistakes and offers insights around pre-negotiated exit packages, comp strategies, company attrition, and so much more.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
LINKS:Benchmark Your Org: https://www.felicis.com/benchmark
LINKEDIN:Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledelcambre/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(04:30) Actually useful benchmarks for founders(07:25) What metrics do people care about now?Boomerangs(09:30) Missing people data metrics(10:30) The talent vortex(15:35) Sponsors: WorkVivo | Attio(18:15) The anxiety of the “Regrettable attrition” metric and boomerang employees(23:07) Compensation challenges in startups(25:52) Tender offers and secondary markets(28:13) Innovative solutions for employee equity(38:41) Pre-negotiated severance and employee retention(43:56) Common mistakes founders make(49:36) Wrap


This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dive into the devastating impact of toxic managers, featuring real stories of burnout, mental health struggles, and even suicide.
They delve into the misconduct of a Baidu executive who displayed horrific behavior towards her employees and the extreme pressures leading to suicides among investment bankers, highlighted by a tragic case at Bank of America.
From recognizing the signs of toxic management to building a strong support network, Kelli and Nolan offer actionable advice on navigating difficult workplaces and prioritizing your well-being.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
Related Articles:
* Top exec at Chinese search giant Baidu tells workers ‘I’m not your mom’ — then loses job
* Death of Former Green Beret (IB Associate at BofA)

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro(00:37) Toxic Managers: Baidu Executive's Shocking Behavior(01:03) Toxic Managers: The Tragic Case of the iBanker(01:34) Kelli's Take on Toxic Management(04:26) Nolan's Perspective on Work-Life Balance(06:40) Sponsor Workvivo | Attio(09:19) The Impact of Fear-Based Leadership(11:15) Balancing Work Expectations and Employee Well-being(13:57) Encouragement and Community Support(16:17) An Element of EQ Is Necessary(19:19) Wrap




This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Casey Woo, a former public market investor turned 7x high-growth executive (including WeWork). He is now the founder of Operations Guild and General Partner at FOG Ventures. Casey shares eye-opening experiences from his time at WeWork and describes working with Adam Neumann, and the dynamics of rapid business scaling. They also highlight the impact of AI on business operations, the rise of the business operator, and discuss what skill-based ‘‘specialist generalists” do.
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Casey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywoo/
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(01:14) Casey's journey and WeWork experience
(08:39) Lessons from WeWork
(14:19) Current Climate and Operators Guild
(19:48) Sponsor: WorkVivo |  Attio
(20:45) Current pace of AI development
(26:26) The Rise of the Operator
(35:03) Importance of generalists in business
(41:10) Building a Community: Lessons Learned
(44:42) Future of operators and founding businesses
(49:56) Wrap




This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli discuss an article from Business Insider about the ongoing white-collar recession, particularly affecting those earning over $100,000 a year.
They discuss significant changes in the tech job market, including the influence of AI, global competition, and the shift from managerial roles to more individual contributor positions. The episode concludes with insights into personal fulfillment versus financial stability in career choices.
Vanguard data reveals a hiring freeze for six-figure earners, impacting tech and finance. Is this the start of a white-collar recession?
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction to the White Collar Recession
00:30 The Dichotomy of Employment Data
00:48 Challenges for High Earners
01:56 The Big Stay and Trapped in Place Economy
02:34 Industry-Specific Impacts
05:21 Global Competition and AI's Role
06:23 The Future of Tech Employment
08:34 Personal Reflections and Career Changes
08:43 Sponsor: Workvivo | Attio
11:12: First-World Work Problems
13:02: Self-Reflection and Assessment
15:34: On Gratitude on Salaries and Roles
16:11 Wrap




This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com