Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Legal Talk Network
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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

  1. 5D AGO

    Supreme Court Airs Dirty Laundry

    Things get testy down at the courthouse. ----- The Supreme Court struck down Donald Trump's effort to use IEEPA to impose arbitrary tariffs across the world and in the process delivered around 170 pages of epic shade. Meanwhile, the administration informed prospective military lawyers that they're no longer allowed to attend the top law schools in the country, presumably because the Pentagon is getting tired of lawyers who can actually identify a war crime when they see one. Finally, the public got another look at how lawyers do their job and predictably overreacted. Les Wexner's attorney got caught on a hot mic giving his client... blunt advice and a court ruled that "wings" don't mean "wings."

    35 min

  2. FEB 18

    AI Takes The Blame, Epstein Takes The Careers

    And law students finally get some good news. With a Biglaw firm officially blaming staff layoffs on AI, what is it going to look like if and when layoffs come for lawyers? It's unlikely to look the same for every Biglaw business model. And it could look even more different for boutiques. Embattled Goldman Sachs chief legal officer Kathryn Ruemmler announced that she'd be leaving her role after her Jeffrey Epstein connections came out in the last file dump. And we found out that the late Ken Starr thought of Epstein as a brother, which tracks. We also saw the first majr firm strike a blow against the expedited law school recruiting cycle.

    32 min

  3. FEB 11

    Epstein Fallout Rocks Legal As Admin Tries To Deflect From ICE

    This is likely only the beginning of the reckoning. ----- As predicted on last week's episode, Brad Karp left the top post at Paul Weiss following the disclosure of friendly correspondence with Jeffrey Epstein. But Karp wasn't the only Biglaw lawyer in the files, nor were his conversations the most troubling. A former Clifford Chance trainee drafted a sex contract with Epstein, Goldman Sachs GC Kathy Ruemmler made a joke with Epstein that normally you wouldn't make with someone who already pleaded guilty to child prostitution charges, and Alan Dershowitz managed to drag Paul Weiss into the case again when people found sex tourism legal analysis in the files from a now-Paul Weiss partner... passing along Dershowitz's thoughts. Meanwhile in Minnesota, a DOJ lawyer called out the broken immigration system before literally asking to be held in contempt so she could get some sleep. which is what happens when an administration breaks the legal system so thoroughly that even its own lawyers can't keep up with the chaos. And legal tech took a financial jolt as Anthropic announced its entry into the legal tech space.

    37 min

  4. FEB 4

    Accountability In An Age Of Unaccountability

    Between Epstein files and ethical breaches, a reckoning seems so close yet so far. ----- A flurry of stories hit the legal world all at once last week, with the government responding to another ICE killing in Minnesota by... arresting journalists and dumping Epstein files. And while the Epstein files don't represent the entire universe -- or, perhaps, even the most relevant -- files about Epstein's dealings, they have set off downstream shockwaves in the legal industry. Meanwhile, another judge learns that we frown upon judges arbitrarily handcuffing lawyers. Finally, it's time for the profession to come together behind helping our self-regulators hold Trump administration lawyers accountable. The ethical breaches keep adding up and while there's never going to be the warranted criminal law reckoning, we can at least make sure our profession is protected by disbarring all these administration lawyers getting caught affirmatively lying to courts... and worse.

    27 min

  5. JAN 29

    Trump's Cook Case Looks Cooked

    After taking a hacksaw to nearly a century's worth of congressionally approved independent agencies, the Supreme Court appeared to hit a wall during oral argument over Trump's attempted firing of Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. The Unitary Executive Theory is all fun and games until the justices start worrying about their personal finances. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice now takes the position that the text of the Alien Enemies Act would have authorized the unilateral deportation of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones for being part of the "British Invasion." Finally, Willkie Farr hit with massive lawsuit alleging the firm helped out a former client's fraud.

    31 min

  6. JAN 21

    Alienating Our Affections

    Supreme Court hacking and the end of a Biglaw era. ------ The Biglaw world continues to watch single-tier partnerships slip away with Sullivan & Cromwell joining the income partner trend. Will the industry have any single-tier firms left by the end of the year? Also former Senator and current Hogan Lovells lawyer Kyrsten Sinema tagged with an alienation of affection tort from her former bodyguard's soon-to-be ex-wife. Come for the bad soap opera plot, stay for the MDMA-inspired psychedelic trip allegations. Finally, the Supreme Court got hacked, but federal law enforcement managed, a couple years after the fact, to track down the culprit whose social media handle was "ihackedthegovernment." Cracker jack work all around.

    30 min

  7. JAN 14

    Minnesota Becoming A Constitutional Law Issue-Spotter

    And Judge Ho's auditioning for MAGA favor takes a disgusting turn. ------ With polls showing more Americans now favor abolishing ICE than keeping it, a lot of people will be disappointed to learn that the law is set up to make it almost impossible to hold anyone accountable for killing Renee Good. From sovereign immunity, to the Federal Officer Removal Statute, to the decline of Bivens, to qualified immunity, the whole system is arrayed to shield federal agents from legal redress. Speaking of the Minnesota ICE surge, we moved a step closer to a genuine Third Amendment case after the Department of Homeland Security pressured Hilton Hotels into dropping a franchisee that had refused to rent rooms to DHS. And finally, Judge James Ho published a broadside against fellow judges in his bid to reach the top of the Trump administration's Supreme Court wishlist. And all he had to do was mock judges receiving violent threats and dishonor a judge's murdered son.

    37 min

  8. JAN 7

    2026 Prediction Time!

    Welcome to another dumpster fire of a year. ----- We begin the year by peering into our crystal balls and issuing some predictions for 2026. Who will be fired? What's going to happen with law schools? Is a big change on the horizon for Biglaw? Our predictions will inevitably be wrong, but we'll offer them with a lot of confidence -- just like AI would. Also a whole lot of sports talk for a law podcast.

    35 min
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Hosts & Guests

3.9
out of 5
487 Ratings

About

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

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