Inside Education - a podcast for educators interested in teaching Sean Delaney

Presented and produced by Seán Delaney.
In this episode I interview Hugh Catts from the Florida State University about reading comprehension, dyslexia and more. People interviewed on previous Inside Education podcasts are mentioned in this episode: Jerome Kagan, Daniel T. Willingham and Tim Shanahan.
Among the topics raised on the podcast are:
How his interest in educational research grew from problems members of his family, including himself, had in learning to read.
The benefits of having knowledge of phonetics and linguistics in studying reading difficulties
His thoughts on whether someone with reading difficulties can teach reading well
How he became interested in comprehension
Why thinking about comprehension as a skill is unhelpful in teaching reading
Comprehension is a complex set of behaviours or cognitive processes that is more like listening. It is the interaction between the reader and the text they’re reading to construct meaning between what is written in the text and what the reader already knows about the topic.
Comprehension needs to be taught within the context of the subject matter we want the reader to understand.
Quote from Daniel Willingham: “Memory is the residue of thought.”
“Comprehension is essentially changing your understanding of the topic based upon the text.”
“The more you learn about a topic, the more interested you are in learning more about the topic because you feel comfortable with it.”
The “simple view of reading” claims that reading comprehension is a two-stage process where you decode/recognise the word and thereby turn print into language; this is followed by turning the meaning of words into the larger meaning of the text. Decoding can be learned over a number of years whereas the language comprehension part is learned over a lifetime. The view has advantages and disadvantages.
We’re missing a good curriculum “in some cases by focusing in early reading on reading rather than focusing on subject matters to where you can gain the knowledge at the same time as you’re gaining knowledge about reading.”
Questions teachers can ask to help develop children’s comprehension. (E.g. what are you thinking about? How does this relate to what you already know? What experiences have you had that are related to this?
Assessing comprehension. It’s not easy to measure!
“You cannot reduce comprehension down to a single score because it’s not a single thing.”
Comprehension should be tested within texts on the subject matter upon which children have been provided with instruction.
Benefits and shortcomings of cloze procedure to test comprehension
Evaluating psychologist Jerome Kagan’s stance on dyslexia.
Comparing the neurological basis of dyslexia with someone who has little musical ability.
There is no consistent brain-based marker for dyslexia.
The difference between someone who has dyslexia and who does not have dyslexia is evident in how much you struggle to read when provided with quality instruction.
How dyslexia and comprehension difficulties could co-occur or could occur independently
Consequences of having dyslexia
The causes of dyslexia are multi-factorial, some relate to risk and some to resilience
The probability that a child might have reading problems can be determined before a child has reading problems.
Dyslexia cannot be diagnosed until the end of first class/beginning of second class.
Intensive, systematic, supportive and scaffolded instruction from an early stage can help students who are at risk of having dyslexia.
Having dyslexia is not a categorical phenomenon – it exists on a continuum.
How he finds time to write.
He likes the work of Daniel T. Willingham, Tim Shanahan, and Natalie Wexler
 

On this week's podcast I speak to Professor Etta Hollins from the University of Missouri-Kansas City about teacher education and the role of the teacher. Among the topics we discussed are:
Why observation is key to good teaching practice and learning to teach
The need to be observing, documenting and analysing classroom practice from early in a student teacher’s course
How the influence of theorists like Jerome Bruner and John Dewey can be seen in classroom practice
Directed observation – how the subject you're studying narrows your focus of observation
She gives an example of how a student teacher might learn to teach with reference to learning to teach aspects of early literacy. She illustrates her point with reference to the book Brown Bear Brown Bear by Bill Martin and Eric Carle.
As the teacher educator, she engages in epistemic practices (practices related to knowledge) with student teachers including focused inquiry (studying something specific that you’re going to be able to observe or apply).
Knowing when it’s time to redesign a teacher education programme.
How to solicit feedback on a teacher education programme’s impact and outcomes. (Do peers trust graduates’ knowledge? How do school leaders evaluate performance of our graduates?)
Using generic versus subject-specific instruments to evaluate student teachers’ teaching.
A student is ready to graduate from their teacher education programme when they can consistently apply academic knowledge to practice and make adjustments as needed for differences among children and get the learning outcomes that are expected for the child’s age, grade and subject matter. How students can progressively demonstrate their development of teacher knowledge throughout their programme.
Why she believes assessing students in particular contexts does not mean that their competence is confined to those contexts: responding to students is a habit of mind that can be transferred to wherever you are teaching.
She draws a parallel between how teachers respond to children in classrooms and how she responds to teacher educators when reviewing teacher education programmes.
Why teachers need not just academic knowledge but to be aware of why they’re teaching. Teachers need a bigger purpose for their work.
How children responded to her as a middle-school history teacher
“Every teacher, whether they do it intentionally or not, influences children’s perception, their relationships, their values and who they become.”
How extreme events such as school shootings can be traced to children being isolated, excluded by their peers in school.
A teacher’s role is to help every child find a place of comfort in the school, learn to build relationships with peers, and help peers become more accepting of difference.
Bank Street in New York is an example of how teachers can help transform schools and communities serving students from socially and economically backgrounds.
Schools founded by John Dewey. At the centre of such schools was the study of children. He conceptualised how learning takes place and he had a conception of diversity. The spirit has been maintained because of a sense of clarity and commitment to John Dewey’s principles.
The Lab school in Chicago was founded by John Dewey and takes children from low-income environments.
Culture influences cognition, values and practices.
She compares how children learn to think with how they learn a language from caregivers.
She gives an example of how student teachers trusted their own experience over theory. She gave them an experience to help them understand difference.
She is inspired by the awesome responsibility of being a professional educator.

Presented and produced by Seán Delaney
On this podcast I spoke to Professor Mark Windschitl from the University of Washington about teaching science and especially the science of climate change. As usual with these podcasts we covered a wide range of topics, including the following:
What core practices are in teacher education (e.g. teachers need to elicit ideas students already have about the topic being taught).
Why, although important, there is much more to teaching than core practices, such as developing respectful and trusting relationships with students.
As teachers gain experience, they add nuance and flexibility to the core practices.
What ambitious science teaching is: willingness to constantly improve one’s practice, to take risks to improve their practice and to base changes on students’ response to their teaching.
The need for a teacher pursuing ambitious science teaching to understand topics (e.g. the greenhouse effect) in great depth, with flexibility, and connected to children’s everyday lives.
The biggest ideas in biology that can be taught in a second-level school setting (e.g. how ecosystems function in the world).
Trees extend their roots out to other trees and can cause chemical changes in other trees.
Selecting candidates for teaching science and engaging in ambitious science teaching
How the impact of testing in schools shapes the curriculum.
The importance of academically productive discourse in the classroom about science ideas. Productive talk in a classroom is a process of sense-making and meaning making.
The need for teachers to have models of ambitious science teaching that is relevant to the setting in which they teach.
How to teach children the science of climate change without elevating eco-anxiety.
Why solutions need to be threaded into the teaching of climate change
The importance of understanding the greenhouse effect and why understanding that is not enough (the need to know about ecosystems, the oceans, the cryosphere – the frozen parts of the earth, and tipping points)
The scale of climate change phenomena
The idea of “carbon footprint” was introduced by a petroleum company (BP)
What schools can do to mitigate the effects of climate change (e.g. making Prom night – the Debs – greener)
Plastics pollution is different to climate change but both are connected in many students’ minds
Students being exposed to sceptical points of view in some areas. Although such perspectives need to be managed carefully, sceptical views might not be as big a problem as we would expect. It may help to focus on the science of the greenhouse effect.
The challenge of beef production as part of the climate change discussion
The difficulty of conveying the scale of climate change
Finding and evaluating climate change data – the challenge of media literacy. Among the known reputable outlets he identifies are: NASA, NOAA, WHO, and the UN.
The importance of having a reason when sharing data about climate change.
Assessing students’ knowledge of climate change
How he became interested in education research
How he conducts his research to find out how novice teachers become “well-started beginners”
Helping novice teachers use agency to move beyond reproducing someone else’s teaching
How he finds time to write – bringing a notebook with him when going out for a stroll and doing 14 versions of an article before it’s ready for publication
Who research in education is for and how does it influence practice in education? Is it through instructional coaches? School leaders?
Having children do well-structured work in small groups (that is equitable and rigorous) in class, at least part of the time, is hugely beneficial for their learning.
Productive academic discourse in science is difficult to find in classrooms in the Unites States.
Another research question is why technology failed to deliver for education during COVID
Why schools and the communities around them should have porous boundarie

Presented and produced by Seán Delaney.
On this podcast I discussed social and emotional learning with Professor Sara Rimm-Kaufman from the University of Virginia School of Education and Human Development.
Among the topics discussed were:
What social and emotional learning is
The implicit and explicit process of learning social and emotional skills
How children can learn empathy
Her book for teachers: SEL from the Start
From listening to respectful communication to respecting others’ perspectives
Where social emotional learning fits in the regular school curriculum
What service learning is and examples of it in practice
Three possible categories of service learning solutions: Educate others, change a policy or take direct action.
The relationship between service learning and project-based learning
How Sara Rimm-Kaufman and her colleagues (including Tracy Harkins and Eileen Merritt) developed Connect Science, a scheme that uses the service learning approach to combine social emotional learning and academic content
Applying service learning in different curriculum subject areas
The notion of “fidelity of implementation” in education research (and an “intent to treat” analysis)
The theme that characterises her research interests: the centrality of social emotional learning (e.g. for racial equity) and the widespread practices in school that have never been studied but would benefit from research into their effectiveness or lack of effectiveness
The source of her research interests
Her early research on primates and working with Professor Jerry Kagan to subsequently working in schools with children in first grade.
Why she likes conducting research in schools, despite the challenges such research brings
Relational trust – what it is and why it is important among the adults in a school
Who has responsibility for building relational trust among the adult community in a school?
Building relational trust with and among children in a school
The relation between a teacher’s beliefs and their practice – a bidirectional process.
She loves the work of Dan Willingham, a former guest on this podcast.

Presented and produced by Seán Delaney.
In this episode I speak to Professor Art Baroody from the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign about matters related to counting and early mathematical development. Professor Baroody shares insights from his extensive research in children's early mathematical learning with anecdotes from his life and work. Among the topics we discuss are:
The word “count” is ambiguous; he prefers the terms verbal counting and object counting. Along with subitising, these are foundational for children’s sense of number.
The rote portion of numbers (up to 12 in English) and the rule-governed portion of numbers (13 onwards in English)
Being able to meaningfully count objects means understanding the cardinality principle
How a teacher can assess a child’s competence in object counting. The “hidden stars” game.
The importance of subitising (easily recognising, without counting, the number in a set). If a child can subitise small sets of objects and connect it to their verbal counting knowledge, the child can get insights into the structure of the count sequence and into our number system.
The importance of children understanding the “increasing magnitude” principle of numbers.
Subitising and learning addition and subtraction concepts
The value of playing dice games.
The successor principle: Each step in the counting sequence means you added one more.
A child who starts out behind in kindergarten, typically gets further behind as school goes on, indicating the importance of informal mathematical knowledge for school readiness.
Three components of a hypothetical learning trajectory: a goal, a learning progression, instructional activities that help children move from one level to the next.
The relevance of a hypothetical learning trajectory for a teacher’s work: questions and instruction need to be developmentally appropriate for children.
What number comes after 9? Whether you need to start at 1 or can answer this directly depends on your current level of understanding numbers.
How schools typically target instruction at a level that is too low or too high for students.
There are many published learning progressions and hypothetical learning trajectories available to teachers now, especially in number, arithmetic and counting development.
A child’s mathematical power, routine expertise (learning something by rote – hard to apply it to a new problem and easy to forget) and adaptive expertise (learning something with understanding)
Mathematical power comes from understanding, engaging in mathematical inquiry, to reason mathematically, to solve problems, having an interest in mathematics and using it. In short, conceptual understanding, mathematical thinking skills, and a positive disposition towards mathematics
Example of applying knowledge to finding the area of a parallelogram
Why memorising mathematics by rote is crazy.
All children, even those with learning disabilities, can develop mathematical power up to lower secondary school level, if properly taught.
Teaching mathematics by rote is cheating children.
Things that can be discovered are the additive commutativity principle (3+5 = 5+3)
Children are capable of much more than we give them credit for.
Why getting children to learn off tables of number facts is cheating children. The importance of seeing patterns and relationships in the number tables – make it a thinking exercise and make mathematics learning fun.
Working with his mentor Herb Ginsburg
The use of manipulatives in teaching mathematics, even to college-level students.
The value of children inventing procedures themselves.
To understand fraction multiplication, the analogy of multiplication as repeated addition does not suffice. You need a more powerful analogy. A “groups of” analogy is more helpful. And it helps you understand why multiplication doesn’t always make something bigger.
How to make sense of fraction division.
How he

Presented and produced by Seán Delaney.
In this episode I speak to Professor David T. Hansen from Teachers' College, Columbia University about the philosophy of education and the practice of teaching. Among the topics we discuss are the following:
What it means to see teaching as an art, as a political activity and as a moral endeavour.
Direct lessons about morality/values/ethics versus the continuous enactment of moral values.
What hand-raising and turn-taking reveals about classroom culture and establishing dialogue among students (teachers and their students coming closer and closer apart and further and further together).
Teaching as a profession? Teaching as vocation, calling, practice, craft? The attraction of teaching for people who want to live a meaningful life.
Reworking his original book, The Call to Teach in 2021 as Reimagining the Call to Teach in response to (a) Accountability movement in the United States, linked to No Child Left Behind; and (b) Having learned more about the practice of teaching.
How the implementation of No Child Left Behind in the United States was tone-deaf to classroom life. Huge resources benefited private testing companies rather than professional development for teachers.
A poetics of teaching: What poetics means (comes from Aristotle trying to figure out why drama on a stage has the kind of effects it has on the spectators long after the play has ended). In this article, Hansen tries to understand the impact of teaching.
Recognising the poetics of teaching; teaching is a rhythmic practice where poetics can be found alongside its drudgery/frustration/failure.
How we all fail regularly in teaching but we rarely discuss it.
What he means when he says that anyone interviewing a teacher for a job wants to know if the teacher loves life.
Finding meaningfulness in teaching
Programmes for veteran teachers to rejuvenate, reinspire, renew and refresh themselves.
One example of such a programme is a “descriptive review” of a child.
The importance of working on craft with initial student candidates; more can be done on the art of teaching – draw out a sense of their own humanity, possibly through story, poetry, film or a painting.
How teaching is saturated with “why” questions – invitations to philosophy.
Philosophy as theory and as an art of living (wisdom tradition)
Cosmopolitanism: being reflectively loyal and reflectively open
Poetry of Rainer Maria Rilke.
Plato and John Dewey.