23 min
JCO After Hours: A Discussion With Abby Rosenberg and Reshma Jagsi Journal of Clinical Oncology (JCO) Podcast
-
- Science
Dr. Shannon Westin, Dr. Abby Rosenberg, and Dr. Reshma Jagsi discuss the timely issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the field of oncology.
TRANSCRIPT
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SHANNON WESTIN: Hey, everyone and welcome to JCO After Hours, the podcast that gets a little bit more in-depth about some of the articles and amazing research that have been published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I'm so excited to be with you today. And more importantly, I'm very excited to talk about this amazing manuscript, which is called "Picture a Professional-- Rethinking Expectations of Medical Professionalism Through the Lens of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion."
And this was a Comments and Controversies article that was just published in October of 2021. And I am beyond thrilled to be joined by Dr. Abby Rosenberg, who was the lead author on this manuscript. And she is currently an associate professor in the Division of Hematology-Oncology, as well as in the Division of Bioethics and Palliative Care at the University of Washington School of Medicine.
She has a number of different amazing accomplishments, including being the director of Palliative Care and Resilience Lab at the Seattle Children's Research Institute, the director of Pediatrics at the UW Cambia Palliative Care Center of Excellence, and the director of Survivorship and Outcomes Research in Pediatric Oncology at the University of Washington. In addition, she is our ASCO chair of our Ethics Committee. Welcome, Dr. Rosenberg. So excited to have you.
ABBY ROSENBERG: Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.
SHANNON WESTIN: And in addition to Dr. Rosenberg, we're also joined by one of her co-authors, Dr. Reshma Jagsi, who is the deputy chair of radiation oncology, the Newman Family Professor of Radiation Oncology, and the residency program director and the director of the Center for Bioethics and Social Sciences at the University of Michigan. You guys, we're going to spend this whole podcast just talking about how amazing the two of you are. Thank you so much for being here.
RESHMA JAGSI: Thanks for having me.
SHANNON WESTIN: So let's get into it. I'm really excited about this paper. I think it's super timely and certainly something that we've all been, I think, dealing with on a day-to-day basis and also reading about and really trying to get better at. So can you tell us a little bit-- and we'll start with you, Dr. Rosenberg-- about what first drew you to this work, how you got involved and, really, how you became passionate about it?
ABBY ROSENBERG: Yeah, happy to. I think just, as you said, Dr. Westin, there is this ubiquity in the experiences, in particular of women and folks of color in medicine, where we feel discriminated against, and we feel like we don't belong. And we know from some really great data from the National Academies of Sciences that 50% of women in med school, for example, experience discrimination before they graduate. And when we educate them about what microaggressive and sexist behaviors can actually look like, that number goes way up.
And most women, in particular, say that they're willing to, quote, "pay this price" for being in medicine because they believe in the work, and they believe in the mission. And for me, this was really personal. Because I was one of those people, too, until I got to the point in my career where I noticed how my mentees and people who reported to me were being held back. And that, to me, made me feel like there was something I really needed to do now as an advocate and mentor to try to change the system so that more women and people of color could be successful in our field.
SHANNON WESTIN: That's great. And then how did you get involved Dr. Jagsi? I'd love to know how the collaboration came about and also about your passion for this work.
RESHMA JAGSI: Thank you. Yes, so both Dr. Rosenberg and I have had the privilege of chairing ASCO's Ethics Committee. And I think, to both of us, this is a fundamental mat
Dr. Shannon Westin, Dr. Abby Rosenberg, and Dr. Reshma Jagsi discuss the timely issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the field of oncology.
TRANSCRIPT
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SHANNON WESTIN: Hey, everyone and welcome to JCO After Hours, the podcast that gets a little bit more in-depth about some of the articles and amazing research that have been published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I'm so excited to be with you today. And more importantly, I'm very excited to talk about this amazing manuscript, which is called "Picture a Professional-- Rethinking Expectations of Medical Professionalism Through the Lens of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion."
And this was a Comments and Controversies article that was just published in October of 2021. And I am beyond thrilled to be joined by Dr. Abby Rosenberg, who was the lead author on this manuscript. And she is currently an associate professor in the Division of Hematology-Oncology, as well as in the Division of Bioethics and Palliative Care at the University of Washington School of Medicine.
She has a number of different amazing accomplishments, including being the director of Palliative Care and Resilience Lab at the Seattle Children's Research Institute, the director of Pediatrics at the UW Cambia Palliative Care Center of Excellence, and the director of Survivorship and Outcomes Research in Pediatric Oncology at the University of Washington. In addition, she is our ASCO chair of our Ethics Committee. Welcome, Dr. Rosenberg. So excited to have you.
ABBY ROSENBERG: Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.
SHANNON WESTIN: And in addition to Dr. Rosenberg, we're also joined by one of her co-authors, Dr. Reshma Jagsi, who is the deputy chair of radiation oncology, the Newman Family Professor of Radiation Oncology, and the residency program director and the director of the Center for Bioethics and Social Sciences at the University of Michigan. You guys, we're going to spend this whole podcast just talking about how amazing the two of you are. Thank you so much for being here.
RESHMA JAGSI: Thanks for having me.
SHANNON WESTIN: So let's get into it. I'm really excited about this paper. I think it's super timely and certainly something that we've all been, I think, dealing with on a day-to-day basis and also reading about and really trying to get better at. So can you tell us a little bit-- and we'll start with you, Dr. Rosenberg-- about what first drew you to this work, how you got involved and, really, how you became passionate about it?
ABBY ROSENBERG: Yeah, happy to. I think just, as you said, Dr. Westin, there is this ubiquity in the experiences, in particular of women and folks of color in medicine, where we feel discriminated against, and we feel like we don't belong. And we know from some really great data from the National Academies of Sciences that 50% of women in med school, for example, experience discrimination before they graduate. And when we educate them about what microaggressive and sexist behaviors can actually look like, that number goes way up.
And most women, in particular, say that they're willing to, quote, "pay this price" for being in medicine because they believe in the work, and they believe in the mission. And for me, this was really personal. Because I was one of those people, too, until I got to the point in my career where I noticed how my mentees and people who reported to me were being held back. And that, to me, made me feel like there was something I really needed to do now as an advocate and mentor to try to change the system so that more women and people of color could be successful in our field.
SHANNON WESTIN: That's great. And then how did you get involved Dr. Jagsi? I'd love to know how the collaboration came about and also about your passion for this work.
RESHMA JAGSI: Thank you. Yes, so both Dr. Rosenberg and I have had the privilege of chairing ASCO's Ethics Committee. And I think, to both of us, this is a fundamental mat
23 min