Dr. John Vervaeke Upfire Digital LLC

Tataya Bailey is the founder and lead trainer of Prisma Leadership, combining her law degree, multiple yoga certifications, and over two decades of facilitation experience to create a unique leadership approach rooted in integrity and connection.
Rachel Hayden is a magpie of the Liminal Web, and occasional collaborator with people like John, Gregg Henriques, and Alexander Bard. Her background includes somatics, meditative and contemplative practice, and peer-based mental health
How can we heal and transform ourselves through embodied practices and the relational field?  In this episode of Voices with Vervaeke, Tataya Bailey and Rachel Hayden join John Vervaeke to explore the transformative power of relational practices on personal growth and healing. They delve into the balance between structure and spontaneity, discuss handling trauma, and emphasize the significance of attention and attunement in fostering authentic connections. This episode highlights the beauty of human connection and the endless possibilities for transformation.
 
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! 
 
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"I discovered capacities in me that I didn't even know I had." - Tataya Bailey [00:06:30]
"The experiences ranged from incredibly profound and bequeathing of a new dharma for me, all the way to working through shadow stuff, having alternate childhood experiences, and working through archetypal symbolism and tribal imagery between people. It was all like welcome there, and it was all material for that relationality, which I found so beautiful and so accessible to me." - Rachel Hayden [00:12:00] 
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00:00 Introduction: Exploring Relational Practices
08:35 Rachel’s Prisma Experience: Embracing Vulnerability and Transformation
13:45 The Structure and Values of Prisma: Balancing Spontaneity and Containment
21:10 How Prisma Unlocks Relational Potential: Recovering Lost Parts and Deepening Connection
40:05 Attention and Attunement: Harmonizing Individuation and Participation
43:50 The Musicality of Relational Practices: The Dance of Metaphors and Sacred Rituals
50:50 Navigating Trauma and Safety in Relational Work
01:00:00 Embracing Discomfort: The Journey from Propositional to Participatory Connection
01:04:50 Re-exaptation and the Imaginal: The Role of Aporia in Transformative Practices
01:12:10 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations
 
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Become a part of The Vervaeke Foundation's  mission to promote the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and create a lasting impact on the world. 
 
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
 
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Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
Alanja Forsberg - Avalon Community
Alexander Bard
Seth Allison - IFS
James Carse - Infinite Game
Andrew Huberman
Kerry Ressler
Robert Kegan
 
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Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
 
Follow Tataya Bailey: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn
 
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Thank you for watching!
 

Gregg Henriques is a clinical psychologist and professor at James Madison University. He is known for his Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK), which integrates various domains of psychology into a coherent framework.  
What drives our social connections and sense of belonging? In this episode, originally recorded at the UTOC 2024 conference, John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques explore the profound concept of recursive relevance realization, focusing on its integration into a fourth R: interpersonal relationality. Their conversation intricately weaves together cognitive science, philosophy, and psychotherapy, presenting a compelling case for understanding how relevance realization shapes social value and collective intelligence. By providing insights into predictive processing and the influence matrix, they uncover the complex dynamics of human cognition and social interaction. This episode not only offers a theoretical framework but also practical strategies for fostering meaningful connections in various aspects of life. 
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! 
 
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“Meaning in life is exactly what Gregg described: what keeps you going even when your subjective well-being is going down.” - John Vervaeke [00:39:15]
“We need to be connected to what we deem to be really real.” - John Vervaeke [00:42:12]
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00:00 Introduction: Exploring the Fourth R
03:50 The Importance of Interpersonal Relationality
07:30 Exploring the Connection between Recursive Relevance Realization and the Influence Matrix
12:20 Anticipatory Relevance Realization: Integrating with the Influence Matrix and Predictive Processing
21:10 The Fourth R: Collective Intelligence and Reciprocal Recognition
23:30 Personal Memories and Relational Dynamics: Practical Examples
30:25 Integrating Theories: Bridging Science, Therapy, and Collective Intelligence
34:55 Social Influence vs. Relational Value: Implications for Society
38:35 Meaning in Life and Belonging: Integrative Insights
46:05 Reflections on Self and Social Justice: Future Directions
48:30 Final Thoughts: Collaboration and Convergence
 
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Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
 
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. 
 
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Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
Timothy Leary - Circumplex Model
John Bowlby’s Attachment Theory
Michael Levin - Cognitive Light Cone
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit by Terry Pinkard 
Jim Rutt - GameB Concept
Kelly-Ann Allen
Joshua Hicks
Grice's Maxims of Conversation
Untangling the World Knot - John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques
 
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Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
 
Follow Gregg Henriques: Website | Twitter | UTOK
 
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Thank you for watching!
 

Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.  
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Plato's cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
 
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! 
 
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"Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention." - John Vervaeke  [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are what's organizing our experience online. It's not a human being, but it's playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and people's development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” - Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isn't going to set us on a path to destruction. - John Vervaeke [00:59:16]





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0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Plato's Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation 
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
 
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Join The Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world.
 
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. 
 
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Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke 
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole 
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James 
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception  - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart E

In the vast expanse of human thought, how do philosophy and spirituality intertwine to shape our understanding of the sacred? In this conversation, first released on Andrew Sweeny's channel, The Parallax, John Vervaeke, Andrew Sweeny, and Christopher Mastropietro examine the delicate balance between philosophical rigor and spiritual experiences. They probe the challenges and rewards of navigating this complex terrain, emphasizing the transformative power of love, wisdom, and existential inquiry. By blurring the traditional boundaries between philosophical inquiry and religious practice, this conversation invites listeners to deepen their exploration of truth and meaning, ultimately fostering personal and communal growth.
 
Andrew Sweeny is an educator, writer, musician, and podcaster who currently teaches at Sciences Po University in Paris and serves as an editor at Parallax magazine. 
Christopher Mastropietro is a philosophical writer who is fascinated by dialogue, symbols, and the concept of self. He actively contributes to the Vervaeke Foundation.
 
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
 
Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis
Nothingness Beyond God: An Introduction to the Philosophy of Nishida Kitaro, by Robert Edgar Carter 
Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis,  co-authored by Christopher Mastropietro
Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being, by James Filler
Iain McGilchrist
Daniel Schmachtenberger
Bishop Maximus
Paul Vander Klay
T.S. Eliot
Jordan Peterson
Sallie McFague
Richard Dawkins
Carl Jung
Søren Kierkegaard
Jacob Howland
Douglas Hedley
Jordan Hall
 
“The more people I'm talking to—high caliber, high quality people in this whole arena—the advent of the sacred as a response to the meaning crisis is a growing theme. I have found myself more and more called into service to doing whatever I can to afford the advent of that.” - John Vervaeke [00:02:00]
"Nobody lives on the Silk Road; people move along it." - John Vervaeke [00:03:37]
"The idea of the Silk Road, to me, is that the wandering, and the traveling, and the encountering different influences, and the metabolizing of a lingua philosophica helps to create a space within oneself into which that inward process can pour itself, discover itself, and metabolize itself." - Christopher Mastropietro [00:10:57]
“The more I engage with this work, the more I realize that so much of the dawning consciousness of our encounter with the sacred is ultimately a process that happens to us. It occurs to us. We can bring consciousness to bear on it, and augment it, and make space for it, and inquire within it in such a way as to invite it.” - Christopher Mastropietro [00:11:23]
 
0:00  Embracing the Philosophical Silk Road: From Top-Down Religion to an Organic Spiritual Path
17:00  On the Philosophical Silk Road: An Interfaith Journey, Personal Transformation, and Confronting Idolatry
28:30  Beyond the Culture War: Embracing Authentic Dialogue and the Embodiment of Beliefs
35:40  The Unresolvable Dialogue: Embracing the Infinite Game Between Socrates and Jesus
44:10  Rediscovering the Essence of Faith: Beyond Doctrine to Personal Transformation
56:00  The Wildness of the Sacred: Recognizing and Integrating Spontaneous Spiritual Experiences
1:02:50  Philosophical and Sacred Synergies: Bridging the Divide through Love and Wisdom
 
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
 
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
 
Follow John

Evan Thompson is a philosopher and author, specializing in the integration of cognitive science, philosophy of mind, and Asian philosophical traditions. Based at the University of British Columbia, his work, including his recent book 'The Blind Spot', examines the intersections of consciousness, experience, and reality through a comprehensive interdisciplinary approach.
 
Can cognitive science, philosophy, and mysticism hold the keys to resolving our modern meaning crisis? 
 
Join John Vervaeke and Evan Thompson in a captivating exploration of how these disciplines converge to address this pressing issue. The conversation showcases Thompson's interdisciplinary approach, drawing from his work on 'The Blind Spot' and his extensive background in Asian philosophy and phenomenology. Gain fresh perspectives on the essence of lived experience, the power of relevance realization, and the nature of reality as the discussion unfolds. Prepare for an intellectual journey that promises to deepen our understanding of truth, goodness, and beauty and bridge the gaps between diverse intellectual traditions.



Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
 
Immerse yourself in the groundbreaking insights of Evan Thompson's thought-provoking book, "The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience.”  https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Spot-Science-Cannot-Experience/dp/0262048809
 
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“"The blind spot is the inability to see, or to recognize, or to acknowledge that lived experience is the source of science. And so if you undercut the source of science by occluding lived experience, you're actually damaging science." - Evan Thompson [00:19:34]
 
"The process of formalization of translating things into a formal system is always an ill-defined problem that requires relevance realization." - John Vervaeke [00:30:52]



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00:00 Introduction to Evan Thompson and 'The Blind Spot'
01:05 Evan Thompson's Background and Philosophical Journey
02:10 Diving Into 'The Blind Spot': A Book on the Meaning Crisis
09:30 Exploring Core Ideas and Arguments of 'The Blind Spot'
18:15 Addressing the Meaning Crisis: Science, Experience, and Reality
18:55 Navigating Between Science Triumphalism and Denial
21:30 The Role of Experience in Understanding Reality
31:25 Challenging the Bifurcation of Nature and the 'View from Nowhere'
38:45 Sacredness, Reality, and the Meaning Crisis
40:30 Exploring the Sacred Beyond Science
41:55 Exploring the Depths of the Sacred and Ultimate Concern: Secular vs. Transcendental Perspectives
47:45 The Axial Revolution and Its Impact on Modern Consciousness
56:45 Challenges and Opportunities in Bridging Science and Mysticism
59:54 Philosophical Reflections on Truth, Beauty, and the Good
01:11:10 Concluding Thoughts and Future Dialogues
 
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Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
 
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
 
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Idea, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - book co-authored by Evan Thompson, Adam Frank, and Marcelo Gleiser
Waking, Dreaming, Being: Self and Consciousness in Neuroscience, Meditation, and Philosophy - book by Evan Thompson
Why I Am Not a Buddhist -  book by Evan Thompson
Contact with Reality - book by Esther Lightcap Meek
The Nothingness Beyond God - book by Robert Edgar Carter
Maurice Merleau-Ponty 
Edmund Husserl 
Martin Heidegger 
William James 
Galileo Galilei 
Nishida Kitaro 
Alfred North Whitehead
Nancy Cartwright 
René Descartes
Robert K

Elizabeth Oldfield is a writer, speaker, and advocate for intentional community living based in South London. Her work, including her book 'Fully Alive', explores the intersections of faith, culture, and ethics through a deeply personal lens. 
 
In a world that often trivializes love and deep connections, how can we cultivate a life of wisdom, virtue, and transcendence amidst our finite existence and growing polarization?
 
Join John Vervaeke and Elizabeth Oldfield in a profound dialogue that explores these critical themes of human existence, drawing from Platonic to Christian thought and emphasizing the transformative power of dialogical reasoning, cognitive flexibility, and awe. Elizabeth Oldfield shares insights from her book 'Fully Alive,' an Augustinian blend of autobiographical confession and psycho-spiritual reflection that highlights relational living and the transformative power of love. The conversation addresses the trivialization of love in modern culture and advocates for a deeper understanding while navigating the complexities of polarization in politics, the comparison between psychedelic and spiritual experiences, and the intrinsic value of community and wisdom traditions in achieving a virtuous life. Discover the necessity of grounding transformative experiences in communal practices for genuine personal and societal transformation in this thought-provoking discussion.



Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
 
Discover a profound exploration of love, wisdom, and the human soul in Elizabeth Oldfield's upcoming book, "Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times." https://www.amazon.com/Fully-Alive-Tending-Turbulent-Times/dp/1587436507
 
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“I can close my eyes now and know myself’s seen, and the deep knowing of the presence of love in my life and the way that every other moment of love, and encounter, and intimacy reflects that is the ground of my being.” - Elizabeth Oldfield [00:32:48]
 
"Wisdom is about this loving enhancement of our connectedness. The wise person can go into a complex, messy, ill-defined situation and home in on what's relevant, summoning their agency in the right way so that they are properly responsible." - John Vervaeke [00:31:04]



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0:00 Introduction to Voices with Vervaeke: Elizabeth Oldfield'
1:30  Elizabeth Oldfield: Life, Faith, and the Quest for Existential Satisfaction
2:50 Exploring 'Fully Alive': Deep Dialogues on Belonging, Soul, and Existential Satisfaction
6:05 Plato's Insights on the Psyche, Inner Conflict, and the Pursuit of Inner Fullness
10:20 The Quest for Inner Peace, Wisdom, and Understanding Sin
14:20 The Interplay of Love, Wisdom, and the Divine in the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness
27:15 Unpacking the Realization of the Really Real: Connectedness, Love, and Presence
45:50 Identity, Cultural Scripts, and the Tension between Faith and Intellect
47:45 Expanding Our Understanding of Intelligence, Reality, and the Role of Attention
1:00:40 The Challenge of Authentic Love, Reverence, and Awe in a Trivialized World 
1:13:10 Reverence, Awe, and the Cultivation of Virtue on the Path to Wisdom
1:22:50 Concluding Reflections on Love, Wisdom, and the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness
 
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Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
 
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
 
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Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
 
Plato 
Freud 
Pascal 
Dialogos 
Kenosis 
Thumos 
Homo Inconvartis in Se 
Plato’s Dialogues
 
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Follow John Vervaeke:
https://johnvervaeke.co