Jolene Park - What is Gray Area Drinking & How To End the Back & Forth

Please Subscribe For More Episodes!

iTunes: https://apple.co/30g6ALF

Spotify: https://odaatchat.libsyn.com/spotify

Stitcher: https://bit.ly/3n0taNQ

YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/2UpR5Lo

Be sure to follow me on Instagram for daily inspiration: @odaatpodcast and @arlinaallen

Connect with Jolene Park

Visit Jolene's Website: https://grayareadrinkers.com/

Follow Jolene on Instagram @jolene_park

Watch Jolene's TEDx talk: https://www.healthydiscoveries.com/tedx-talk/

The Lightning Round

Book recommendations:

Drinking, A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp

Many Roads, One Journey: Moving Beyond the Twelve Steps, by Charlotte Kasl

Favorite Quote: "This too shall pass"

Regular Self-Care Practice: Grounding - walking barefoot on the beach, breathwork, somatic work, and healthy eating.

Transcript:

Arlina Allen 2:56

Jolene, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jolene Park 3:03

Thanks for having me I'm I'm really looking forward to chatting with you and getting to know you a little bit more in the studio.

Arlina Allen 3:09

Listen, I appreciate somebody who has done their own work and who has a lot of credibility. Can I just say that to you?

Unknown Speaker 3:20

Thank you. I received that and appreciate that and feel the exact same way so I'm with you. Yeah,

Arlina Allen 3:27

we were just okay, I'm not gonna go into a rant, but maybe just a tiny little soapbox. You know, little cautionary tale. There's, there's a while I love how open people are being with their recovery. I just really appreciate people who have done their own work, right? So and you'll hear it I listen, I can sniff it out in two seconds. If I'm talking to someone who has not done their own work. And I've listened, I've listened to your TED Talk, your other interviews, there's lots of really good quality stuff that you've been putting out that I really appreciate. Because you are rooted in logic, which is nice. You got a lot of science going on. I love me some science. So we'll talk about all the stuff all the things, but just for fun. Do you hear my dog barking? Yeah, one second. I'm so sorry.

Unknown Speaker 4:54

Oh, I think you're still muted. Ah, here we go.

Arlina Allen 5:02

Okay, I had to go. Let my I have an English bulldog named named Teddy had to let him out. Did you know that Dr. Andrew Huberman has an English bulldog?

Unknown Speaker 5:11

I mean, his dog is no castellet. Well, long videos watch. Yeah, yeah. Costello was Costello

Arlina Allen 5:18

okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we were totally

Unknown Speaker 5:23

embarrassed that I know that but I might make you vermin fans.

Arlina Allen 5:27

Me, too. Oh my God. He's talking about him all the time. I digress. Sorry about that, I will have to edit that little part out. What I where I thought we would start is just kind of a fun little lightning round. It's a fun little icebreaker. When you first started your journey to do you call it do how do you refer to it your alcohol free journey, your sobriety journey?

Unknown Speaker 5:53

alcohol free is what I use most. But you know, I'll interchange sobriety here and there, but in general, I, you know, I'll the term alcohol free is what I'm most comfortable with.

Arlina Allen 6:05

Okay, cool. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting, you know, over the years, you know, when people were first talking about getting sober, it was all about alcoholism. Right. And you and I know now that the DSM five doesn't even recognize that term anymore. It's alcohol use disorder. So which I appreciate because that sort of speaks to the spectrum. Right? There's an Oh, you're going to talk about this too. I'm not gonna steal your thunder here. But um, but yes, so when you started your alcohol free journey, were there particular books that you found really helpful?

Unknown Speaker 6:42

Oh, what a fun question.

Arlina Allen 6:45

I am obsessive when it comes to books.

Unknown Speaker 6:48

Yeah. Because you know, when I started my journey, and Anna Grace's book was not out. Oh, okay. Unexpected joy of getting sober. You know, all of these these books, the sober diaries by Claire Pouliot. None of those. They all came after I quit drinking. Yeah, me too. So yeah, this is a really fun question. Kind of, you know, pre this big Instagram boom, about talking about alcohol free. I definitely read Carolyn naps book, the drinking love story. Have you? Have you read her memoir?

Arlina Allen 7:20

I haven't. That also came out after I got sober. I heard that people read the books that came out when they got sober, or became alcohol free.

Unknown Speaker 7:31

She wrote her book. I think it was in the 90s and the 90s. Yeah, okay. Yeah, she was an early, early one. And her writing is just exquisite. I mean, it's so visceral and it pulls you out. I mean, it almost it's called drinking a love story. And she really romanticizes the drink and she had an absolute 100% you know, drinking problem, but her writing is just mesmerizing. So I read her memoir a couple times. But you know, who I knew about early on to was Charlotte, I think it's castle, k s L, I never know how to say her last name. And she wrote the book moving beyond the 12 steps, many roads one journey,

Arlina Allen 8:18

I think wow. And

Unknown Speaker 8:21

and so she took a she looks at the physiology, which is you know, is a real core piece of my work and you know, potential things like blood sugar and, and allergies to alcohol and, and she, you know, she knew about that side as a psychologist, but, but were her work really, where she really anchored it was looking at the language of the bill Wilson's 12 steps. And so she wrote the 16 steps and more of a feminine kind of empowered approach, you know, she just turned the language and so I enjoyed her work and kind of her take on things. And I think that you know, her book came out probably in the 90s as well

Arlina Allen 9:03

in the 90s that is so interesting. So I grew up in the church where I was accustomed to reading patriarchal language of the Bible and things like that. And and I was accustomed to reading things and then interpreting it like I didn't realize I was I had like this interpretation filter, so that you know, when I got sober in 94, all there was really was the 12 steps. And I was so desperate to be different and I just happened to know some people who were going and so I just kind of got they call it getting Eskimos in the cold, I guess. Um, and so that that worked for me. But it's so fascinating that there were so many women that are just like, I'm not okay with this, like this whole patriarchal thing and, and so it's so interesting to hear that Charlotte was able to sort of translate To the 16 steps I'm totally gonna have to check that out so that was a book that you read early on as well

Unknown Speaker 10:06

it was because I I appreciated her comprehensive approach which is very much resonated with me about looking at the biochemistry looking at the emotional components and today's you know language around that is the somatic work the polyvagal work which Charlotte wasn't you know that's newer research but she was aware of that of that bigger comprehensive approach around the codependency is another you know term that was more traditional but that emotional sobriety and then the spiritual piece of it too and there's all different you know, currents to ride with that and and she helped me you know, have an appreciation too I've always been very neutral with with 12 steps I've been in and out of meetings you know, throughout the years and I certainly see from a nervous system standpoint the huge benefit of the community so being in a room with other human beings where you can be heard and seen and witnessed and you know, that your story is held and that's very healing to the nervous system. I understand the criticisms and I have you know, I respect you know, it's everybody has their different preference but speaking strictly from a nervous system standpoint community and the predictability the regular meetings the the support that that you know, there's a lot of dynamics in there that are very supportive to the nervous system now we can find them in you know, in churches or spiritual groups or movement groups like yoga communities or more knitting communities it doesn't have to be a recovery based community but in general community that's part of my acronym nourish uniting with others so

Arlina Allen 11:55

I thought we're gonna get to that I wrote

Unknown Speaker 11:58

and power code

Arlina Allen 12:01

is so good it okay so I don't want to jump ahead but I'm just I'm gonna ask you about all that cuz I was listening to and I was like writing this down I was like, Oh my god, how did I not hear about this before? It's so interesting that we can sort of sort of like package or position information in a way that is so consumable and easy to remember your whole nourish, and that a knack? Is it an acronym my does that sound weird? acronym, acronym? Sorry, dear, I laugh at my own jokes. Bear with me. Um, okay, so the books these are, these are really good books. Okay, so drinking a love story, and then moving beyond the 12 steps, which I totally appreciate. Like,

Unknown Speaker 12:45

let me let me throw one other in there that was very emotional. And we can as we get m