Keep Going

John Biggs

When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com

  1. 3h ago

    How Bailey’s CBD survived when the pet wellness market turned against it

    When Aaron Argueta and his business partner Jay started Bailey’s CBD for Pets, they had 50 bottles of CBD extract, about $500 and a dog named Bailey. Nearly a decade later, the company has more than 20 products and distribution in over 400 pet stores. Getting there, however, meant surviving an industry that seemed determined to put them out of business. On this episode of Keep Going, I spoke with Argueta, co-founder and CMO of Bailey’s CBD for Pets, about what happens when your payment processors stop working, your competitors have millions of dollars and you spend your days visiting pet stores that have absolutely no interest in what you’re selling. The story actually begins with music. Argueta and Jay met while touring in bands in 2013. Both had experience with California’s cannabis industry, and Jay had begun experimenting with CBD extracts at a time when the market was still developing. Customers occasionally asked whether he had something similar for their dogs, so he put together a product with his pug Bailey’s face on the label. The first batch consisted of just 50 bottles made in Jay’s kitchen. The response convinced them that there might be a real business there, and the two eventually reunited to launch Bailey’s CBD for Pets. Then things got difficult. When the money stopped coming in The period between 2018 and 2020 was particularly brutal for Bailey’s. Following the passage of the 2018 Farm Bill, CBD businesses were entering the market rapidly, but financial services companies remained reluctant to work with them. Argueta described how one payment processor, Elavon, abruptly stopped servicing smaller CBD businesses in 2019. Bailey’s lost its ability to process conventional credit card payments and relied on PayPal, which subsequently shut down its account as well. The company suddenly had a serious problem. It could make products and find customers, but collecting payments online had become extremely difficult. Worse, payment providers could hold funds for months, leaving the founders without working capital. At roughly the same time, California dispensaries began dropping hemp-derived CBD products because of regulatory restrictions. The company was losing sales channels just as competition was becoming more intense. And this wasn’t a market filled exclusively with small startups. Argueta recalled competing against CBD brands associated with Martha Stewart, Willie Nelson and other famous names with considerably more money to spend. For a business that had started with a few hundred dollars, those were difficult odds. Twenty-five stores and not a single sale Argueta’s response was to sell the old-fashioned way. He drove around Los Angeles and Orange County visiting pet stores, pitching products and trying to persuade owners to carry Bailey’s. Some days he visited 20 or 25 stores without securing a single account. Retailers were already overwhelmed with competing CBD products, and many were skeptical about the category altogether. Weekends weren’t much easier. Argueta and Jay attended farmers markets, dog events and retail pop-ups, selling products directly and explaining what CBD was supposed to do. Sometimes they would spend hours at a store that already carried their products without generating much interest. Argueta admitted that the constant rejection was disheartening. What helped was a community of other entrepreneurs facing similar problems, along with a determination to keep the business operating as cheaply as possible. They reduced expenses, took modest salaries and reinvested what they could. In the early days, Argueta said, there were times when even finding money for lunch was a concern. The founders also took on side work to bring in extra cash. Their strategy was relatively simple: survive long enough for the market to settle down. And eventually, it did. At the SuperZoo pet industry trade show in 2019, Argueta remembers seeing more than a hundred businesses offering CBD products. By 2022 and 2023, that number had declined considerably. At the most recent show, he estimated there were fewer than ten. Many competitors had disappeared. Bailey’s was still there. Finding a business beyond CBD Survival alone wasn’t enough. The company also had to find new ways to grow in a crowded market. One important change was moving away from generic CBD dog treats toward products marketed for specific purposes, including calming and hip and joint support. These formulations incorporated additional ingredients and gave customers a clearer understanding of their intended use. Argueta believes they should have made that change earlier. Instead of expecting customers to understand CBD and determine why they might want it, the company could explain what each product was designed for. Bailey’s also expanded beyond CBD into products such as probiotic chews and mushroom-based supplements. That opened sales channels that remained unavailable to CBD products, including certain wholesale marketplaces. Another opportunity came from manufacturing products for other brands. Argueta recalled losing an early contract because Bailey’s wasn’t organised to handle it. Rather than ignore the opportunity, the founders spent years building a private-label and contract-manufacturing operation. Today, he said, the company works with about eight consistent clients. It’s an interesting development for a business that once struggled to compete with other CBD brands. Now, some of its revenue comes from helping other companies make their own products. The problems haven’t disappeared Bailey’s still faces restrictions on advertising and distribution, and Argueta described the difficulties of competing for attention on Google when many major retail platforms don’t allow CBD products. The company has consequently invested heavily in organic search, blogging and website development rather than depending entirely on paid advertising. There have also been regulatory problems. Argueta said Bailey’s received an FDA warning letter roughly a year and a half before our conversation and has been working through the agency’s concerns. He described a slow process of submitting changes and waiting for responses, with the warning letter creating additional concerns among retailers and customers. These are reminders that surviving the initial wave of competition doesn’t mean the business suddenly becomes easy. But the company has also found opportunities. Argueta said sales grew significantly during the COVID-19 pandemic as more people adopted pets and sought products marketed for calming and wellness. More recently, Bailey’s has been expanding its affiliate relationships and looking for additional distribution channels. Why keep going? I asked Argueta why he and Jay were still building a CBD company when they could have moved into an entirely different business. His answer was the pet industry itself. Both founders enjoy working with pet owners, and Argueta said the customer feedback they receive continues to motivate them. He also spoke about Bailey, the original pug who inspired the business and died in 2024. The dog may be gone, but the company still carries his name. What I found most interesting about Argueta’s story is how little of it involves a sudden breakthrough. There was no enormous investment that solved everything, no single marketing campaign that transformed the business and no moment when the founders could stop worrying about money. Instead, they kept expenses low, found alternative ways to sell their products, built relationships with other operators and gradually expanded into new areas of the industry. A lot of their competitors didn’t make it through the difficult years. Bailey’s did, and that gave the company an opportunity to keep growing. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    How Bailey’s CBD survived when the pet wellness market turned against it
  2. Oct 12

    Why should we still have hope? “Because we’re still fighting.”

    Esther Dyson has spent decades studying technology, business, and the ways both affect society. But she doesn’t consider herself a futurist. As she explains on this episode of Keep Going, she’s more interested in understanding the present and helping people change what comes next. Dyson, whose forthcoming book In Defense of Limits: Human Time and AI Scale examines the relationship between human life and technological growth, believes that American society has become increasingly focused on making money rather than creating value. People see enormous fortunes being made through cryptocurrency, financial speculation, and technology companies while ordinary workers struggle to get by. The result is a growing sense that the system is unfair and that individual effort no longer matters. One of Dyson’s central concerns is what she calls “information diabetes.” Just as processed food can damage physical health, she argues that a constant stream of simplified, fragmented information can damage our ability to think critically. AI-generated summaries, social media feeds, and business presentations filled with impressive numbers but little context encourage people to consume information without understanding it. She sees a similar problem in what she calls “money diabetes,” the accumulation of wealth through systems that extract money from other people’s activities without producing much value themselves. The problem isn’t capitalism itself, she argues, but a culture that increasingly treats financial success as proof that something is worthwhile. That concern extends to artificial intelligence. Dyson is less worried about machines becoming powerful enough to destroy humanity than about companies using AI to keep people dependent on their products. “I’m not worried about predatory AI, I’m worried about parasitic AI,” she says. These systems don’t need to destroy their users. They simply need to keep collecting small amounts of money, time, and attention from them. The conversation also turns to the growing loss of human agency. Dyson compares modern society to the social structure of medieval Europe, where a small ruling class held most of the power while ordinary people had little control over their lives. Today, she argues, many people feel similarly powerless in the face of governments, technology companies, and financial institutions. One possible response is what Dyson calls universal basic service. Rather than simply giving people money, she proposes a period of paid public service for young adults. Participants could work in parks, schools, public facilities, or other community settings, gaining experience while working alongside people from different backgrounds. The goal would be to restore a sense of shared responsibility and remind people that their time and attention have real value. Dyson also questions the modern obsession with eliminating friction from everyday life. Technology companies promise to make everything faster, easier, and more efficient, but not every difficult experience needs to be removed. Building relationships, raising children, learning new skills, and helping other people all require effort. That effort is often what makes those experiences meaningful. Despite her concerns, Dyson remains hopeful. She believes people are beginning to recognize the costs of systems that put growth and profit ahead of human well-being. Parents are questioning the effects of social media on their children, communities are demanding more control over decisions that affect them, and governments are slowly responding. When asked why people should still have hope, Dyson offers a simple answer: “because we’re still fighting.” For Dyson, progress isn’t about reaching a perfect future where every problem has been solved. It’s about doing useful work, making things better for other people, and passing that work along to the next generation. No individual can fix everything, but everyone can contribute to something worthwhile. In this episode of Keep Going, we talk about AI, cryptocurrency, inequality, public service, the value of human connection, and why the effort to improve the world matters more than any promise of a perfect future. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Why should we still have hope? “Because we’re still fighting.”
  3. Sep 28

    Perseverance pays

    What happens when a product takes ten years to become an overnight success? On this week’s Keep Going, I talk with Reid Robinson, founder of Robinson Exotech Corp. and creator of the X Leg, a wearable exoskeleton designed as a hands-free alternative to crutches. The idea came out of Robinson’s own recovery after a serious car crash in 2015 shattered his lower leg and ankle. Over the next two and a half years, he went through 13 surgeries while doctors tried to save his leg. Between surgeries, Robinson started wondering why there wasn’t a better way to remain mobile without putting weight on an injured leg. He sketched an idea, searched for an existing product and, when he couldn’t find one, decided to build it himself. The first X Leg was made in his garage from cut-up crutches, Home Depot aluminum, leather belts and an IKEA cutting board. It looked rough, but it allowed Robinson to cross the street and play soccer with his kids while his injured leg still couldn’t support even five pounds. That prototype turned into five years of research and development. Robinson tested five versions, worked with local patients and eventually secured patents in several countries. X Leg began selling in 2021, but Robinson continued working his IT job while running the company during evenings, weekends and lunch breaks. Until May of this year, he describes himself as effectively working three jobs: being a father, working in IT and building X Leg. This is the part of entrepreneurship that we don’t talk about enough. There is a popular idea that persistence is automatically admirable, but sometimes continuing with a company that isn’t working is simply wasting another year. I’ve talked to thousands of entrepreneurs, and after a decade of slow progress I would normally tell someone to seriously consider whether it is time to stop. Robinson’s story is different because there are signs that the underlying product works for at least some customers. People actively search it out after other mobility devices haven’t worked for them, and Robinson says customer messages about what they were able to do while using X Leg have kept him going during difficult periods. One customer told him the device allowed him to attend his daughter’s wedding in Europe. The problem is getting the product into the existing medical system. X Leg is still relatively expensive, isn’t automatically covered by insurance and needs more clinical evidence before Robinson can pursue the kind of dedicated insurance coverage that could make it easier for patients to obtain. Studies are underway or being planned in the US, Chile and Canada, and Robinson hopes those results will eventually help move X Leg toward standard care. Robinson has spent ten years trying to turn something he built for himself into something other people can use. There is still no guarantee that X Leg becomes a large company, and Robinson is very clear that the device doesn’t work for every injury. But there is an important distinction between blindly refusing to quit and continuing because customers keep giving you evidence that the thing you built solves a real problem. That’s what makes Robinson’s story interesting. Perseverance only pays when there is something worth persevering for. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Perseverance pays
  4. Sep 21

    From a little red suitcase to a billion-dollar company

    What happens when you finally get everything you thought you wanted, and realize you want something else? Joe Spector came to America from the Soviet Union at ten years old. His family arrived with $100 each. Joe had a red suitcase. He studied his way into Berkeley, finished in three years, and landed a job at JP Morgan. It was the kind of secure, prestigious career his younger self thought meant he had made it. Then he realized he didn’t care about it. Joe left finance, moved into startups, and eventually helped build Hims, taking an idea around hair loss and sexual health and turning it into a public company. Then he left again. During COVID, a $2,000 emergency vet bill for his dog made him start asking questions about veterinary care. He took what he had learned building Hims and started Dutch, a pet telehealth company aimed at making veterinary care easier and less expensive. But one of Joe’s first lessons at Dutch was that past success does not give you a perfect playbook for the next company. He initially tried to copy the Hims model. It didn’t work. Pet care was different. So he changed the model and kept building. Joe’s story is about more than startups. It’s about refusing to confuse security with purpose. Sometimes the thing you worked years to reach turns out to be a place you need to leave. On this episode of Keep Going, Joe and I talk about immigration, Wall Street, building Hims, starting over with Dutch, getting things wrong, and why being an outsider can make taking risks a little easier. And we return to that ten-year-old boy carrying a red suitcase into a new country. What would Joe tell him today? Give yourself the freedom to look beyond what you think you need right now. There may be a much bigger life outside the path you can currently see. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    From a little red suitcase to a billion-dollar company
  5. Sep 14

    Scott Jordan built a brand and a million dollar business on a whim

    Note: The video portion of the interview failed so this is an old-fashioned audio podcast. Scott is a great guy so I wanted to share this regardless. What does success look like after 25 years in business? On this episode of Keep Going, I talk with Scott Jordan, founder of SCOTTeVEST and self-described “Chief Pocket Scientist,” about building a clothing company around a simple idea: people carrying a growing pile of technology needed somewhere to put it. Long before the iPhone, Scott was making vests for people hauling around Palm Pilots, Discmen, phones, and other gadgets. But the past 25 years haven’t been a straight line up. Scott talks about watching sales grind to a halt after September 11, betting heavily on publicity that failed to produce sales, losing millions during a bad stretch of television advertising, fighting legal battles, and facing moments when financing nearly disappeared. Through all of it, he kept returning to one basic rule: the company had to make money. Instead of chasing investors, he focused on profitability and built from there. Today, SCOTTeVEST is a multimillion-dollar company that Scott says operates with zero traditional employees. He and his wife Laura have moved much of the company’s work to contractors and outside specialists, creating a very different business from the one he started 25 years ago. We also talk about why starting a company may be harder today. Scott once built SCOTTeVEST through personal relationships, press coverage, word of mouth, and some wonderfully shameless PR. Now the company can spend around $2,500 a day on Facebook advertising just to generate roughly the same amount in immediate sales. Most important, Scott talks about giving up the idea that every founder needs to build the next billion-dollar company. After years of thinking about patents, investors, exits, and massive growth, he came to value something simpler: build a profitable company, do the work well, treat customers well, and create a life you actually want to live. As Scott puts it, sometimes success really is changing the world one pocket at a time. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    Scott Jordan built a brand and a million dollar business on a whim
  6. Sep 9

    How to build something as successful as the Apple Store

    Ron Johnson built the Apple Store, then watched the world copy it for two decades. In this episode of Keep Going, he walks through how that happened, starting with a choice he made early on: learn retail from the ground up, not from a spreadsheet. After Harvard Business School, he went to unload trucks in a Mervyn’s store, then rose through Target during its big 1990s run, where he helped push “design for all.” Ron is the author of an upcoming book, Shop Different, which is in pre-orders now. We got to talk to him before the book launch and I can’t begin to describe how cool it was to talk to someone like him for the pod. Back to his story. The Apple story turns on one conversation with Steve Jobs. Jobs thought stores could double Apple’s market share from five to ten percent. Johnson told him that was the wrong target. He pointed to the bigger opening, the half of Americans who had never bought a computer, and the fear of technology that kept them out of the category. That changed the entire store strategy. Put the stores where people already shop, in malls, make them big enough to feel like a major brand, and use the space for experiences, not shelves. The front half introduces people to technology, the back half deepens the relationship with support and learning. No commissions, because you cannot teach someone while you are trying to pick their pocket. Johnson also shares what it looked like when Apple was close to the bottom. In 2002, he says the company hit a point where it was trading at cash value, and Jobs was carrying the weight of a risky transition to Intel, OS X, new apps, and the early store rollout, all at once. He tells a scene from the morning the Soho store opened, when Jobs saw a small line and thought nobody cared anymore. A few hours later the store filled, and Jobs stayed for seven hours, talking to customers and watching the place work. Johnson describes it as a turning point, a moment where the “green shoots” mattered more than the quarterly numbers, and where Jobs doubled down on the stores as a core product, not just a sales channel. Then it gets harder. Johnson does not dodge JCPenney. He calls it his failure. He explains the vision, a “mall within a mall” with smaller branded shops, a town square feel, and simpler pricing. The mistake, he says, was speed and process. They changed pricing almost immediately, without time to communicate it or bring employees into the build. He contrasts that with Apple, where he could hire the team, shape the culture, and let the model mature. At JCPenney, he never had the internal support needed to make the change stick, and eighteen months later it was over. This episode is a clean reminder that “great strategy” is not enough. Execution is people, timing, and trust. You can be right about the idea and still lose if the team is not with you and the change moves faster than the organisation can absorb. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

  7. Sep 8

    How psychedelics changed my life

    This one is personal. I started working on Shroomies in 2018, after my dad died and I entered one of the darkest periods of my life. I was depressed. I was taking SSRIs. I was very close to self-harm. I didn’t feel like myself, and I didn’t know how to get back. Then a friend invited me to a psychedelic mushroom session. I thought it sounded ridiculous. I’m not a Burning Man guy. I’m not a hippie. I don’t like the Grateful Dead. I definitely don’t like Phish. But I went. What happened over the next six hours started a much longer process of figuring out what was happening inside my own head. I eventually had a few more experiences. Things changed. Some changes were good. Some were difficult. But I came out of that period knowing myself better. Most importantly, I’m still here. Book Party Fun! Are you in New York? I’ll be holding a book party in Brooklyn on September 24 and I need a rough headcount so please RSVP here! That experience also made me curious. What were these substances actually doing? Why were people using them for depression, PTSD, end of life care, relationships, and creativity? Why had something dismissed for decades suddenly become the subject of serious medical research? So I started reporting. The result is Shroomies, a book about psychedelic mushrooms, the people using them, the people studying them, and the strange cultural shift happening around them. It isn’t an argument that everyone should take mushrooms. Psychedelics carry real risks, and I would never recommend experimenting with them alone. It’s a book about what happens when people who have run out of answers start looking somewhere else. That feels very close to what Keep Going has always been about. Failure doesn’t always arrive as a failed company or a lost job. Sometimes it is much more subtle. Sometimes is that the status quo stops working for you, that your biggest enemy becomes yourself. Then you have to figure out what comes next. You don’t have to try mushrooms but please try my book. Shroomies is out today, September 8, in hardcover and on Kindle. If you’re a journalist or simply review books anywhere, I’m happy to send you a copy. Just drop me a line at john@biggs.cc. I hope you read it. As always, thank you for listening and supporting me. It means the world. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.keepgoingpod.com/subscribe

    How psychedelics changed my life

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
7 Ratings

About

When you're going through Hell, keep going." This is a podcast about failure and how it breeds success. Every week, we will talk to amazing people who have done amazing things yet, at some point, experienced failure. By exploring their experiences, we can learn how to build, succeed, and stay humble. It is hosted by author and former New York Times journalist John Biggs. Our theme music is by Policy, AKA Mark Buchwald. (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/policy/) www.keepgoingpod.com

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