Paul Giamatti’s CHINWAG with Stephen Asma Treefort Media

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This Chinwag welcomes Mark Mothersbaugh, DEVO’s co-founder and author of the fascinating new book “Apotropaic Beatnik Graffiti.”

Come along and reminisce about DEVO’s first live appearance on SNL, thanks to the legendary Blues Brothers, Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi. Mark is tickled to learn Paul and Stephen were spooked by DEVO as kids, and Mark explains why he thought rock ‘n’ roll was dead by 1964. Then, the art movements that inspired DEVO, and Mark shares a pivotal moment during the Kent State protests that gives a heartfelt glimpse into DEVO’s roots.

So what is it about DEVO’s unique flair that sets them apart? And is that really Mark as the art teacher on Yo Gabba Gabba!? Things get deep as Mark talks devolution, science vs. religion, early Homo sapien artifacts, and the eerie reasons behind holes in ancient skulls. The conversation then shifts to AI and we’re off to the Chinwag races!

Chin-word of the Week: APOTROPAIC

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

Mark Mothersbaugh is an artist, composer, and co-founder of the influential rock group DEVO. His latest art book titled “Apotropaic Beatnik Graffiti” is a collection of neo-dada streams of conscious visual poetry.

Note: Headshot for this week's cover art is courtesy of Brent Broza 📸

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💄🪞🎪

Paul and Stephen discuss the concept of 'freaks' and freak shows with award-winning portraiture artist, writer, and curator, Riva Lehrer.

What was the societal impact and moral implications surrounding “freak shows” historically? And did you know people with unique physical traits used to invite intellectual elites to observe them as an educational opportunity? Then, Paul, Stephen and Riva chinwag about P.T. Barnum’s notorious exploitation of his exhibits, The Mütter museum (a Chinwag favorite!) and the bond many disabled people feel with museum exhibits of anomalous bodies.

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

Riva Lehrer is an award-winning artist, writer and curator who focuses on the socially challenged body. She is the author of the memoir Golem Girl, and her work has been featured at the Smithsonian’s National Portrait Gallery, Yale University, and The United Nations. For more information, visit rivalehrerart.com.

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🦾🐕‍🦺🦻🏼

On this riveting Chinwag, Paul and Stephen speak to Riva Lehrer, an award-winning artist, writer, and curator with an unconventional approach to portraiture.

Together they explore the nuances of living with a disability, stigma, defining beauty, and the complexities of human interactions. Riva shares the importance of representation and the burden of standing out in a world that often overlooks diversity. Talk then turns to “inspiration porn”, reclaiming narratives, and an overview of what language is pejorative when discussing the disabled population.

In true Chinwag fashion, the conversation moves to Frankenstein, and Riva’s connection with Mary Shelley's monster and the concept of the golem, a protective creature made from clay. And of course, stay tuned for an incredible ghost story from Riva’s haunted school-hood days. We’re Chinwaggin’ over here!

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

Riva Lehrer is an award-winning artist, writer and curator who focuses on the socially challenged body. She is the author of the memoir Golem Girl, and her work has been featured at the Smithsonian’s National Portrait Gallery, Yale University, and The United Nations. For more information, visit rivalehrerart.com.

🦾🐕‍🦺🦻🏼

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📮🍸🎩

It’s back to the WagBag we go again!

This time Paul and Stephen relay a heartfelt letter from listener ERIC about his father Jim, a devout fan of W.C. Fields. As it turns out, Paul’s a huge fan too and wants to bring back the W.C. Fields fan club (or the W.C. Fritos mascot - anyone remember that?). But we’re getting ahead of ourselves!

The letter recounts Eric’s unusual upbringing with a spiritually-inclined dad who was a paranormal-enthusiast with a vast collection of W.C. Fields memorabilia (including a very special martini shaker). There were imaginative attempts at conjuring spirits using Ouija boards and bathroom mirrors, and more than a few illicit calls from a coven of witches. In fact, Jim prepared his son with a secret code to perhaps contact him in the afterlife. What a childhood!

Paul and Stephen then delve into different parenting styles and their effect on children’s openness to fringe beliefs. The Chinwag continues as our hosts reminisce about W.C. Fields’ comedic genius, his contemporary parallels with TikTok, the golden age of early cinema, the Satanic Bible, and Anton LaVey, alchemy, and the Renaissance.

Chin-word of the week: THE NECROMONICON

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

📮🍸🎩

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📰🛸🕵🏼‍♀️

Fortean Times has been bringing weirdness into people’s lives for over 50 years and Paul’s been reading its pages since he was a mere Chin-cub. Now join Paul and Stephen as they meet the man behind the mag, esteemed News Editor, Ian Simmons.

What follows is a mind-bending exploration of the weird and wonderful including a colorful sketch of the life and work of Charles Fort—a guiding spirit of this humble Chinwag podcast. Fort, known for his unique style of collecting and presenting ‘damned data,’ delved into phenomena excluded by mainstream science. Hear Fort’s own words about outcast phenomena and delve into the positivism movement and notable figures like Ken Campbell.

How has a narrow view of science shaped our understanding of the unexplained? Will mysterious occurrences like rains of blood, fish, and frogs ever find a place under the umbrella of respectable sciences? Ball lightning and cryptids also get their time in the sun, as do vomiting pelicans, Bigfoot’s petrified poop, and more and more obscure poltergeist outbreaks. And don’t miss Gef—the talking mongoose—a particular favorite of Paul’s! Plus, we explore Fort’s connection to Jacques Vallee and bizarre outbreaks like the Goblins in Zimbabwe. This Chinwag explores the delicate balance between skepticism and belief, the joy and complexity of embracing strangeness, and all from a Fortean point of view!

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

Ian Simmons is the News Editor of Fortean Times, the world's leading magazine for weird news. He has written for Fortean for over 30 years.

📰🛸🕵🏼‍♀️

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👨🏼‍🏫🍏🕰️

The Professor is in for Chinwag Office Hours! Professor Stephen Asma offers his rarefied time and detours into more of the unusual topics you crave.

This week on Office Hours, Stephen drops his knowledge on the Mothman and the psychology of creepiness. What is the purpose of creepy feelings and eerie sensations? Are they interdimensional beings of energy that exist to warn and protect us? Hear the first sightings of the Mothman, classic stories of Mothman, and question whether this legend is a cryptid or a demon or something else entirely?

Maybe it’s really a creature developed in human imagination, as posited by Fortean author John Keel. And what’s the connection to Jacques Vallee, UFOs and fairies? Are Mothmans just the domain of human thought, products of collective consciousness or ultra terrestrials? Brace yourself for firsthand accounts of Mothman that may make you rethink your skepticism! Or maybe the Mothman is just a Blue Heron…either way, we’re glad you swung by the Chinwag basement for our inaugural Office Hours!

Chin-word of the week: TULPA

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer, and the self-proclaimed Emperor of Neptune. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. He also is the acting Minister of Triton for the Chinwag.

👨🏼‍🏫🍏🕰️

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