18 episodes

Powerful Conversations that Question What It Means to be Educated in the 21st Century

Q-Ed Up With Ziz & Pam Q-Ed Up with Ziz & Pam

    • Education

Powerful Conversations that Question What It Means to be Educated in the 21st Century

    Ep. 18: Preparing for the Shift in Higher Education, part 2

    Ep. 18: Preparing for the Shift in Higher Education, part 2

    In this episode, Ziz and Pam, revisit the subject of our ever-changing economy and the need for a shift in higher education. Students entering the workforce in the shrinking corporate world will also need to look for opportunities in the gig or sharing economy. This is the future of work. Most companies are outsourcing and relying on freelance workers to meet their needs. Technology is changing so fast that many degrees are being rendered obsolete. Instead, certificate programs through MOOCs or corporations are available to get people up to speed. What can schools and families do to support our children in this environment? Teach kids to be agile. Focus on soft skills and building networks. According to LinkedIn, 85% of jobs are found through networking. Teach kids how to get a job but also how to create a job. By allowing our children the opportunity to explore, experience, and find their way, we are creating the best possible environment for them to flourish.




    Scott Galloway, NYU

    60-year curriculum


    David Deming STEM majors

    Jim Goodnight, CEO of SAS 

    Western Governors University


    Pam: "The college degree is not preparing (students) for the literal agility they need to be able to move between the different economies at different times."

    Pam: "Somehow we've associated education with the school building. And that's a new construct, an industrialized construct when we were preparing for compliance and conformity, to work in factories, and to work in institutions where you had to fit in. That is no longer the case."

    Pam: "This whole idea of being agile in an uncertain environment, having to figure out, having to navigate, we need to prepare our kids for that."

    Pam: "That's the hindrance of a system that was built for the 20th-century institutional economy. We've shifted to this entrepreneurial networking economy and the skill sets are different. So in fact, the way we're teaching devalues the human being and their worthiness and the individual by standardizing them based on their age."

    Pam: "In the past when we've gone through shifts in arrows, from agriculture to industrial and industrial to the information age, it's been a kind of a longer spread, a hundred years. Now in 20 to 30 years, boom, complete shift. It's because technology builds on technology. This whole idea of machine learning, where they can all connect and learn from each other on a greater level, completely reshaping what's happening, what we do, but also creating tremendous opportunity."

    Ziz: "What we're saying is a major paradigm shift is underway. As you already know, if not: attention, attention, the paradigm shift is happening. It's happening in higher education. We have clearly identified the full-time/corporate job, gig, and sharing economy."

    Ziz: "Our jobs will be found through another human being through a network. Open up your networks, figure out who's in your network. Understand who's in your network, which also means you have to understand who you are and what you have to offer."

    Pam: "As community members, as parents reaching out with other parents with businesses to say, it's all our jobs to create the environments that allow these kids to explore, experience, et cetera. That is critical. We have a big job ahead of us in this next century, not in defining them, but in creating the environments that allow them to flourish." 

    • 23 min
    Ep. 17: Preparing for the Shift in Higher Education

    Ep. 17: Preparing for the Shift in Higher Education

    In this episode, Ziz and Pam discuss the shift that is happening in higher education as our economy changes and technology evolves.  As the corporate economy gives way to the gig and sharing economy, we need to better prepare our children for the future of work. The four-year degree is no longer the "golden ticket" when you consider the debt load and job outcomes upon graduation for most students.  Instead, alternative education and training models have emerged, providing students with real-world experience and lifelong learning. Our current education system is not designed to teach collaboration, creativity, agility and the soft skills employers require above all else. The result of our schools' emphasis on compliance, conformity, and rote memorization, is a generation of students who are discouraged, frustrated, and ill-equipped to handle the demands of the fourth industrial revolution. 


    Daniel Pink, Drive

    R.E.A.D. Framework

    Viktor Frankl

    Napoleon Hill

    Modern Parenting: The Downside of a One-sided Balance Sheet

    Ep. 15: Why Soft Skills are Critical in the 21st Century


    Pam: "We're seeing the diminishing value of the (college) degree, especially with the cost of not only money but time and emotional energy that we've taken away from these kids. But we say because it worked for us, it's going to work for our kids."

    Pam: "The economy has changed. We've entered a new era. It operates globally, in smaller bites of change, so agility is required."

    Pam: "In order to have meaning and discover meaning in life, you need to have freedom of choice. You need to have responsibility and agency. You need to be propelled towards something that is bigger than you and know that it's not just about you."

    Pam: "The entire fundamental structures of our education system is exactly the opposite of collaboration, agility, problem-solving, critical thinking." 

    Pam: "We need to help less, empower more. Allow students to go and figure it out. Embrace the uncertainty."

    Ziz: "As a mentor and parent, one thing I started to do better is listen and stay curious. They are discovering themselves and it is important for me to allow that to happen."

    Ziz: "If we talk about the benefits of inclusivity, it means I'm aware of the different skills and talents of individuals inside my network, outside my network, and I can bring them in to benefit my small corporation. So being racists or prejudiced isn't going to help me. It's going to hurt me in the long run."

    Pam: "You can't program soft skill into somebody's brain. It is who they are and how they connect with the outside world. We are parents, educators, and communities cannot mold, shape, paint the canvas of them. We have to empower them to discover it."

    Pam: "Now we have a multitude of pathways. We want our children to think, to be agile, to have soft skills. College is an 'if' and 'when' proposition. They have to know who they are and what they're interested in before we spend that kind of time and money."

    • 33 min
    Ep. 16: Mentor Up

    Ep. 16: Mentor Up

    In this episode, Ziz and Pam talk about the value of mentorship for today's youth. Formal or informal, mentorship is the future. As educations shifts away from the "sage on the stage" model, new pathways for experiential learning are emerging. They provide opportunities for child-directed, interest-based development. Instead of telling kids what to think, we need to teach them how to think and show them what it looks like to be creative, innovative, and collaborative. Modeling is an important part of mentorship. Helping kids understand that uncertainty is a reality prepares them for a future where their worthiness is not based on outcomes.  Fulfillment comes from discovering your meaning and answering life's call.

    How to #mentorup? Volunteer, job shadow, interview people, take a part-time job.


    Pam Roy Blog, What Now?

    David Brooks, The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake

    Jo Boaler, Youcubed.org 

    Steven Leavitt, Freakonomics Season 9, Ep. 12: America's Math Curriculum Doesn't Add Up

    Tim Salau, Guide

    Viktor Frankl, The Tragic Triad: guilt, suffering, and death.

    Tim Bilyeu, Impact Theory

    David Brooks, commencement address, "The theory of maximum taste says that each person’s mind is defined by its upper limit—the best that it habitually consumes and is capable of consuming."

    Jim Rohn: "You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, including yourself!"

    Lenore Skenazy

    • 28 min
    Ep. 15: Why Soft Skills are Critical in the 21st Century

    Ep. 15: Why Soft Skills are Critical in the 21st Century

    Show notes here.

    In this episode, Ziz and Pam talk about the importance of soft skills in the new economy, not just for getting a job, but for navigating a successful life. These are human, interpersonal, relationship skills. How are these skills developed? It's about creating experiences, relationship and mentorship opportunities, and embracing our humanness.

    The rise of automation means job candidates will need these uniquely human skills. Employers are looking for agile, critical thinkers. One study found that 51% of human resource managers said that education systems have done little to help address the soft skills shortage in the workplace. As we shift from teacher/institution directed learning to learner-centered engagement, we will provide the type of environment that fosters creativity, communication, and innovation. 

    Parents can advocate for their children, protect their time and space, and co-own the process with teachers and students. But it starts with the learner, honoring their individuality and humanness.


    Ziz: "The top missing soft skills are problem-solving, critical thinking, innovation, creativity, the ability to deal with complexity and ambiguity, and--the big one--communication."

    Pam: "Innovation requires so much diversity of perspective, thought culture, to be able to break out of that river of thinking. So diversity is innovation and we are not allowing that in our school system."

    Ziz: "Diversity isn't necessarily about a gender or a color. It's perspective."

    Pam: "Diversity is the human complexity that each of us brings to the table, based on our experiences."

    Pam: "Allow kids the time to play, to be bored, to pursue things that are of interest...Encourage them to look at themselves and what they can give to the world, not what the world is going to give to them."

    Pam: "We start with the human being. When you hear 'learner-centered', think 'human being centered'. That is the future of education."

    Pam: "There's not one school that fits all children, or all family circumstances and needs."

    Pam: "Human beings are open systems. We need to engage with others in different environments. So when we put ourselves in these closed silos, it leads to a lot of distress. We have to break down the school walls and give experiences, expand the multigenerational relationships, mentor-up as businesses and parents. We have to inspire each other to co-own the learning and education that can happen in museums, libraries, businesses, and different types of collaborative, online learning."


    Duncan Wardle - Diversity is Innovation

    Viktor Frankl

    Emerson Collectives QX Super school

    Getting Smart with Tom Vander Ark

    Place-Based Education

    No Time to Lose: We Must Broaden Our Children’s Exposure to the Real World

    Education Re-imagined - LEARNERS AT THE CENTER. #BuiltForThis

    FinTech (financial technology) Nexus Degrees

    In An Automated World, Our Humanness Is The Advantage

    The Five C’s to Success in the New World of Work

    • 28 min
    Ep. 14: What is Lifelong Learning?

    Ep. 14: What is Lifelong Learning?

    Show notes here.

    In this episode, Ziz and Pam discuss what it means to be a lifelong learner. Given the rapid pace of technological change in our world, students need to R.E.A.D. The 'R' stands for responsibility. It is the student's responsibility to upskill and continually learn new ways of doing things so that they can adapt to changing environments. The role of parents and teachers is to step back and facilitate their learning. We no longer follow the 3-part model of school, work, retire. Lifelong learning is about teaching students how to learn, not what to learn. Students need to be agile and gain the employable skills needed to withstand the test of time.


    Our Children Need to R.E.A.D to Succeed in the 21st Century

    R.E.A.D. Framework

    David Deming - Harvard study of STEM majors and the importance of upskilling.

    Jim Link, Randstad's chief human resources officer, Hiring and Developing Digital Leaders whitepaper.pdf Skills required by employers: adaptability, problem, solving creativity, influence drive, empathy, and collaboration.

    Viktor Frankl: Freedom

    Dr. Ai, Iceberg model - knowledge, life skills, mindset

    What If No Summer Job or Internship is an Opportunity?

    To Gap or Not to Gap

    Tim Salau and Mike Gates GUIDES


    Pam: "The struggle is growth. We only grow during times when we're really struggling, struggling to push forward. And it's what propels us forward."

    Pam: "You can do college in many ways now. In different places, parents, educators, and businesses are creating these environments where kids can go and explore while they're in high school and begin to get those experiences so that they don't have to take a gap year. They figure this out during their teenage years by working part-time jobs by doing internships. Particularly with disadvantaged students, we've got to mentor up, create the umbrella of mentorship and guides that they can tap into."

    Pam: "I just believe so strongly in honoring the unique individual, honoring their ability to do R.E.A.D. and discover their meaning. Our job is to create diverse, multigenerational, and experiential environments that allow them to do that."

    • 20 min
    Ep. 13: Grace in the Learning Process

    Ep. 13: Grace in the Learning Process


    In this episode, Ziz and Pam talk about giving grace to students, parents, and teachers in the learning process. For the last several decades, we have perpetuated a culture of sameness and moved our children through an antiquated system that no longer works for all. But now we know better! As we examine some updated approaches to education, we are inspired by those models of learning that value individuality and promote collaboration and exploration. Let's give each other grace because we are all in this together!


    New York Times, Parenting During the Coronavirus: 'I Have Given Up' 

    Daniel Pink

    The 7-20-10 Rule for Leadership Development

    Dr. Ai, Classroom Without Walls

    Pam Roy's Changing the Culture of Sameness: A Track for Everyone

    A New Way Forward Education Summit #anewwayforward

    Maya Green https://youtu.be/X5ZSwqxTD5E?t=212



    • 23 min

Top Podcasts In Education