Scaling UP! H2O scalinguph2o.com

Each week, we bring you insights from industry experts to help you scale up your water treatment knowledge and operations. This week, we're thrilled to share strategies for effective customer and employee surveys based on a recent interview with  Brian Katarski, Vice President of Sales and Marketing at AquaPhoenix Scientific. Brian's extensive experience in sales and marketing makes him a valuable source of knowledge on how to gather and use feedback to drive improvement.
How Important is Feedback?
“Feedback plays a very important role in all relationships: employees, coworkers, even your spouse.” - Brian Katarski
Feedback is a cornerstone of growth. It empowers teams to improve by increasing their knowledge and confidence. Brian emphasizes the necessity of not just collecting feedback but using it as a foundation for continuous improvement.
What is Feedback?
“The most important part of feedback is that we have to use it as a basis for improvement. You cannot collect feedback just to ignore it, or justify it away, or pretend like it doesn't exist.” - Brian Katarski
According to Brian, feedback should be actionable. Whether it’s from customers or employees, feedback needs to be addressed constructively. Ignoring or dismissing feedback is counterproductive. Instead, look each other in the eye and commit to acting on the feedback received.
How Do You Build a Healthy Culture of Feedback in Your Company?
“The biggest piece to it is if you want to encourage this long-term over time is you have to respond to the feedback. You can't just ignore it, right? You can't ghost it, or you can't just think it didn't happen. or say. you know. justify it away. You have to respond to it in a way that lets somebody know ‘I heard you. I understand. Here's what we're gonna do with that information now’, right. And that way they and they now know that we care. That we want to hear what they have to say whether it's an employee or a customer. They know that we're going to listen to what they have to say, and they'll be more willing to share that information with us.” - Brian Katarski
Creating a healthy feedback culture starts with demonstrating that feedback is valued and acted upon. Brian highlights the importance of responding to feedback promptly and constructively. When employees or customers see that their input leads to real action, they are more likely to continue providing valuable insights.
“You've got to try some different tactics and different things to try to reach certain people. Sometimes it's a quick paper survey. You know, maybe as you're walking out. Maybe you send an email or a link with your service reports whenever you send those off on Fridays or whenever you do it. Just different ways to do it, maybe put it on an invoice you're sending off, maybe have your marketing team sending those out, but you'll kind of figure out the best ways to gather that information depending on how people do it.” - Brian Katarski
Diverse methods of collecting feedback ensure that you reach a broad audience and gather a variety of perspectives. Whether it's through paper surveys, emails, links in service reports, or even feedback sections on invoices, finding the right approach for your audience is key to building a robust feedback culture.
How Do You Start and Encourage a Feedback Process?
“Build out a plan around what you want to gather feedback on. Start with the end in mind.” - Brian Katarski
Brian advises beginning with a clear plan. Identify what specific feedback you need and how you will use it to drive improvement. By focusing on the end goal, you can design a process that ensures the feedback is both meaningful and actionable.
“It depends on what you want to gather and from who. It's gotta be simple and quick.” - Brian Katarski
To encourage feedback, keep surveys short and straightforward, aiming for 1-5 questions. Use a variety of methods depending on your audience—quick paper surveys, ema

Collaboration: Enhancing Efficiency Through Industry Partnerships
Welcome to this week's edition of Scaling UP! H2O, where we explore the critical role of water treatment in optimizing industrial processes. Today, we are privileged to hear from two distinguished guests: Tony Mormino and Justin Lynch. Tony is Technical Sales and Marketing Director for Insight Partners and host of the The Engineers HVAC Podcast specializing in education, while Justin focuses on cooling tower Reconstruction Specialists. Together, they share invaluable insights into collaborative strategies that ensure the best and most cost-effective solutions for cooling towers and closed loop systems. Their discussion focused on the importance of collaboration, cost efficiency, and proactive maintenance in the field of water treatment. Tony and Justin's insights provide a roadmap for water treaters to enhance client outcomes and operational efficiency through strategic partnerships and informed decision-making.
What Are the Cost and Efficiency Benefits of Proper Water Treatment?
Cost efficiency emerges as a significant topic. Tony Mormino underscores the financial benefits of proper water treatment, citing examples where a modest investment in water treatment can yield substantial savings. "According to the Department of Energy, 40% of a commercial building's energy consumption goes to HVAC systems," explains Tony. "Simply improving water quality can lead to 5-10% savings in energy costs. It's a quick win for green building initiatives."
How Do You Prevent Vibrations in Cooling Towers?
Bad vibrations in cooling towers can be a significant issue if not addressed early. Justin Lynch highlights the importance of monitoring biological buildup and evaporative salts on the fans. "It's very difficult to do that if you don't catch it early. Let's say we go to a facility with an old tower and an old fan—there's going to be a little bit of biology on top, which is not a big deal. You can brush that off, do a light pressure washing, and it’s not going to hurt it," explains Justin. However, the real issue arises when scale develops unevenly on each blade. "At that point, the fan may look horrible, but the tower still operates without vibration. If you clean five out of six blades well but can't get the scale off one blade, you just created a vibration, leading to other issues in the tower." Justin advises that while chemical treatments are effective, they should be done with caution and under professional guidance to avoid exacerbating the problem. This proactive maintenance is less of a concern for newer towers that have had chemical treatment from the start.

How Does Air in Closed Loop Chilled Water Systems Affect Performance?
Tony Mormino highlights a critical yet often overlooked issue in water treatment: Air in closed loop chilled water systems. This issue not only leads to rust and oxidation but also significantly impacts the system efficiency and longevity. Studies and practical examples underscore the importance of air removal systems:
Removing air from the chill water system can result in substantial benefits:
Increase in Tonnage Output: Youngstown State University reported a 16% increase in tonnage output, equivalent to 400 additional tons. Improvement in Delta T: From 8.5-10°, enhancing heat transfer efficiency across chiller barrels. Enhanced Building Discharge Air Temperatures: Temperatures improved from 65° to 55°, optimizing HVAC system performance. Reduction in Pump Energy Consumption: A notable 37% reduction in annual KWH requirements due to cleaner water and improved system operation. Moreover, practical cases like at Waukesha Memorial Hospital in Wisconsin showed a 22% reduction in Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) speed, leading to an 85% decrease in corrosion preventative chemical usage. These examples illustrate the direct correlation between air removal and energy savings, reinforcing the significant impact of proper water treat

Our lab partner today is Jed Harris, owner of Puretec Industrial Water with over 25 years of experience in the water industry, to delve into the world of Reverse Osmosis (RO) systems. Jed’s extensive experience and deep understanding of high-purity water solutions provided a wealth of knowledge, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to scale up their water treatment expertise. Below, we highlight some of the best insights Jed shared, aimed at making the complex world of RO systems more accessible and intriguing.
Reverse Osmosis: The Industry Workhorse
Jed describes reverse osmosis as the workhorse of water treatment, efficiently removing up to 99% of dissolved solids, organics, bacteria, and viruses. This process involves using a high-pressure pump to force water through a semi-permeable membrane, reversing natural osmotic pressure. Whether you're  in power generation, food and beverage, or pharmaceuticals, understanding RO systems is crucial as they play a pivotal role in ensuring water purity.
Common RO Applications and Challenges
RO systems are ubiquitous across various industries. Jed emphasizes their versatility but also highlights the complexities involved in managing them. He notes that the feedwater chemistry can vary, making it essential for operators to understand and monitor their systems to maintain optimal performance. This is particularly critical as the industry pushes for higher recovery rates, often pushing RO systems to their limits.
Key Metrics for Monitoring RO Systems
Trace Blackmore posed a crucial question; “What are some of the key things that we should be looking at to tell what's going on within the RO?”. Jed Harris provided valuable insights; “You want to look at your flows, your qualities, your pressures, and last but not least, the feedwater temperature—which has a huge effect on all this stuff. You want to look at your permeate flow, your concentrate flow, your feed pressure, your concentrate pressure, and your permeate pressure if available. And then the qualities would be your feed conductivity and your permeate conductivity.”
Practical Tips for RO System Maintenance
Jed shared several practical tips for maintaining RO systems. He advises partnering with a company that can conduct water analysis and projection to set the system up correctly. Regularly collecting data—ideally daily—and using normalization software to interpret this data is crucial. He also cautioned against the impact of temperature changes, noting that a decrease in feedwater temperature can lead to a significant drop in permeate flow, potentially misleading operators to think there’s a problem when there isn’t.
Normalizing Data for Accurate Analysis
One of the most insightful parts of the discussion was on the importance of data normalization. Jed explained, “By normalizing the data, what you’re doing is essentially taking data when you start up the RO system, and then, as you go into the future, you’re comparing the current performance to how it should be at the baseline.” This helps accurately assess the system’s performance, especially when dealing with variables like temperature fluctuations that can significantly impact the RO system’s output.
Temperature's Effect on RO
Jed Harris explains the critical impact of temperature on RO systems: "Temperature has such a huge effect on the amount of water that will go through a membrane. RO membranes are like the Miami Dolphins; they don't do well in cold weather. The rule of thumb is for every one-degree Fahrenheit drop in water temperature, you're going to lose about 1.5% in permeate flow. You might notice a decrease in permeate flow and think, 'Hey, these membranes are dirty. They're plugged. We need to clean; something's wrong.' But in reality, nothing's wrong. It's just that the feedwater temperature has dropped."
Pre-Treatment is Key
Jed Harris emphasizes the crucial role of proper pretreatment for RO systems:

“If you're calling it news. It has to be true.” - Scott Slade
In our latest episode of the Scaling UP! H2O podcast, host Trace Blackmore sits down with renowned journalist Scott Slade to delve into the critical role media plays in elections. With over 30 years of experience as the host of Atlanta Morning News on WSB Radio, and inducted into the Georgia Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame, Scott brings unparalleled expertise and insight into the influence, accuracy, and bias of media as we approach the upcoming presidential election.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
The Importance of Accuracy in Journalism
Scott Slade emphasizes that journalism is the first draft of history, highlighting the paramount importance of accuracy in traditional media. "It's your job to tell a balanced story, "He states, underscoring the responsibility of journalists to provide truthful and comprehensive coverage.
Diversifying News Sources
Slade advises against relying on a single news source, advocating for a well-rounded media diet. He champions the legitimacy and depth provided by local newspapers and stresses the need to consume news from multiple outlets to avoid the echo chamber effect.
Scott advises, "Read a strong daily newspaper or two every day, even if it's online. Listen to more than one radio and TV station, and don't get caught in the echo chamber of ideas."
The Dangers of Soundbites
In today's fast-paced media landscape, soundbites can easily be taken out of context when there's a sensational sound bite. Scott recommends a thorough approach: "You should try to understand the who, the what, the when, the where, and the how of where that soundbite came from and why it's being used in the story.” He warns against the sensationalism that can arise from these snippets and encourages listeners to seek out the full story to grasp the context and nuances behind the headlines, and reminds us that “It's up to the journalist to make sure you (the audience) understand the context.
Social Media as a News Source
While social media can be a convenient way to stay informed, Slade cautions against using it as a primary news source due to its potential for inaccuracy. He suggests prioritizing more reliable and vetted sources for critical information.
Scott notes, "If I had to give up something, as far as being in the know about what's really going on, I think social media would be the first thing I’d give up. It has great entertainment value but when it comes to making decisions about things where you need to really rely on what's truthful and accurate. It can come up lacking."
Factors that Drive Newsworthiness
Slade outlines five key news values that attract the most attention: locality, universality, celebrity involvement, conflict, and oddity. Stories that meet these criteria are more likely to engage and inform the public. Scott shares, "If your story can fill one, or even better, more of those slots, it's usually a good one."
Media’s Influence on Elections

The Power of Perception
Media has a substantial influence on shaping public perception during elections. Scott explains, "Media can present a perception of someone by what they include and what they leave out." By choosing what to include and what to omit, media outlets can significantly impact voters' views. 
Upholding the Founding Fathers’ Intent
In a thought-provoking discussion, Slade and Blackmore touch on whether modern media upholds the First Amendment's intent. While media's role has evolved, the core responsibility of seeking and reporting truth remains unchanged.
Scott remarks, "The society of professional journalists begins with seeking truth and reporting it."
Advice for First-Time Voters
For first-time voters feeling overwhelmed, Slade offers practical advice: "Preparation is the best remedy for stage fright. Knowledge is power." He encourages young voters to research candidates based on what matters most to them and to avoid the pitfalls of

"Be curious, maintain an open mind, and maintain your high standards." - Lee Bainbrigge
Our water treatment community is a close-knit brotherhood and sisterhood, regardless of where we live. We face similar challenges and share a common goal: to grow and learn from each other. Our latest podcast episode features a conversation that delves into the differences and similarities in Legionella control practices and regulations between the United States and the United Kingdom. This insightful episode features Lee Bainbrigge, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer of SMS Environmental Ltd as our charming lab partner. 
 
Key Insights from Lee Bainbrigge on Legionella Control:
Differences in Legionella Management and Documentation
In both countries, the primary Legionella control methods are keeping water moving and using temperature control. However, the UK places a stronger emphasis on documentation and compliance systems to record control measures. "The types of control you are using, you need to record it, you need to write it down in a compliance system," Lee explained. If a system tests positive for Legionella, it is crucial to effectively and clearly communicate to the client, "There's Legionella in the system. Let's look at doing something about it." In the UK, these communications are meticulously documented and kept as digital records for future reference.
Crafting Effective Legionella Legislation
When discussing what lawmakers should consider when writing Legionella legislation, Lee advised caution and balance. He noted that the guidance in the USA is relatively proportionate and effective when in the right hands. "Effectively, the guidance you've got in the USA is relatively proportionate... In the right hands, you're going to do a good job with the guidance that you've got," he noted. In contrast, the UK's approach can sometimes be overly prescriptive. Lee suggests a middle ground, advocating for guidance that is neither too relaxed nor too stringent, ensuring efforts and resources truly reduce risk. "I think the most reasonable guidance you could come up with is somewhere in between the two. There are pros and cons on both sides," Lee mentioned.
ASHRAE 188 and Its Direction in the USA
Lee affirmed that the USA is on the right track with ASHRAE 188 for Legionella control. "Yes, absolutely!" he responded when asked if the US is heading in the right direction. He highlighted the importance of competent professionals conducting Legionella risk assessments to ensure effective control measures. "Make sure that the people that are carrying out your Legionella risk assessment are competent and you're actually getting good advice at the beginning of your control scheme," he advised.
Challenges and Technology Opportunities in the UK
In the UK, current challenges include maintaining competency and training within the industry, adapting to novel systems like heat pumps, and dealing with reduced water flow in buildings. Lee mentioned the potential of new technologies, such as the Internet of Things (IoT) and remote monitoring, which could revolutionize Legionella control, although current guidance has yet to fully incorporate these advancements. "We have got challenges with... new novel systems coming into our domestic hot and cold water systems. The use of heat pumps and different ways of sourcing energy and reducing water flow are all having an impact on Legionella control," Lee explained.
Building a Global Culture of Learning
Lee is a strong advocate for collaboration within the industry. He believes in learning from each other and sharing best practices, which can greatly benefit organizations and improve public health protection. "I’m a big believer of us being collaborative in this industry," Lee shared. "When we see what somebody else is doing and establish what’s working for organizations, that is just so great to see."
Professional Standards and Certifications
Lee discussed the significance of the Certifie

“Sales is never a quick process. The only way you can have a lasting sales relationship is to be honest, have a positive attitude, and hustle.” - Fred Shurtz
Discover the Roadmap to New Business Success!
In our latest episode of Scaling UP! H2O, host Trace Blackmore sits down with Fred Shurtz, owner of Precision Chemical, to explore the intricate roadmap of acquiring new business. Fred, a seasoned expert in the water treatment industry, shares his journey, challenges, and strategies that have led to his success. Here’s a sneak peek into some of the valuable insights Fred offers in this must-listen interview.
From Engineer to Entrepreneur: Fred's Career Journey
Fred’s journey began with an engineering degree and a pivotal role at NALCO in 1988. He emphasizes the unique advantage of a sales career: controlling your destiny. “When there’s no ceiling, you can earn a lot of money if you treat people right and do the right thing,” Fred explains. He also highlights the importance of being a leader, stating, “You’ve got to be the person that people want to follow.”
Sales: It’s a Crockpot, not a Microwave
Sales, according to Fred, is a long-term process that requires honesty, a positive attitude, and hustle. “It’s never a quick process,” he notes, emphasizing that lasting sales relationships are built on these principles. The right technology also plays a crucial role in this equation.
Earning Trust to Gain New Business
Building trust is paramount. Fred listens attentively to his customers, understanding their needs through both words and body language. “If you are genuine with people and they have a need for what you have, then you’ll make sales,” he explains.
Fred stresses the importance of persistence, patience, and viewing every person at a facility as a potential door-opener. “If it’s not a win-win, it’s not worth doing,” he asserts.
Client Surveys: Building Trust from the Start
Fred emphasizes the importance of asking good questions, listening, and being attentive to clients' needs. Acting as an advocate and helper is essential in building trust with new clients.
Crafting Proposals that Resonate
Proposals should clearly demonstrate the benefits for the client. Fred believes in interactive presentations, using pen and paper to draw things out. “Hard selling doesn’t work; you need to be a soft seller,” he advises, focusing on building partnerships rather than just making sales.
Sustaining Client Relationships Over the Years
Continuous engagement and feedback are essential. Fred emphasizes fulfilling promises and regularly checking in with clients to ensure their needs are being met. “It's all about the hustle,” he says, advocating for a proactive approach to client relations.
Tune in to our latest episode to gain more insights from Fred Shurtz on building and sustaining a successful business in the water treatment industry. Don’t miss out on this wealth of knowledge!
Stay connected with us for more expert insights and strategies to scale up your water treatment business.
 
Timestamps
01:00 - Trace Blackmore reminds you about this day in history and being a kid in love with NASA’s space program
05:00 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals 
07:00 - Interview with Fred Shurtz, owner of Precision Chemical
50:40 - Lightning Round Questions
01:00:00 - Drop by Drop With James McDonald 
 
Quotes
“Sales is never a quick process. The only way you can have a lasting sales relationship is to be honest, have a positive attitude, and hustle.” - Fred Shurtz
“When they say “no” they are saying I don’t need you yet, but you stay with them because you never know when they will need some help. You need to stay persistent, patient, and keep calling.” - Fred Shurtz
“You need to find out what's important to them. You need to ask good questions and listen. You need to be attentive to their needs.” - Fred Shurtz
“You have to be the