So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

FIRE
  • 4.6 (202)
  • POLITICS
  • UPDATED SEMIMONTHLY

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

  1. Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech

    OCT 30

    Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech

    We tackle ten common arguments against free speech. FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen are the co-authors of the new book, "War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail."   Timestamps:  00:00 Intro  01:18 Book's origins 04:25 Argument #1: Words are violence 20:27 Argument #2: Words are dangerous 25:09 Argument #3: Hate speech isn't free speech 31:06 Argument #4: About shoutdowns 37:18 Argument #5: Free speech is outdated 45:41 Argument #6 Free speech is right-wing 50:14 Argument #7: About that crowded theater and marketplace of ideas 59:27 Argument #9: Misinformation and disinformation 01:03:53 Argument #8: Free speech protects power 01:09:30 Argument #10: About the Holocaust and Rwandan genocide 01:13:35 Outro Get the Book: Purchase War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail. Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/) and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

    1h 14m
  2. Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy

    OCT 15

    Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy

    FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, "Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech."  Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID's impact for international students' speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk 36:52 Sarah's free speech inspirations: literature and people About the Guest: Learn more about Sarah McLaughlin and her work. Get the Book: Purchase Authoritarians in the Academy here.  Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-transcript-authoritarians-academy Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today (https://www.thefire.org/) and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

    40 min
  3. Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?

    SEP 30

    Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?

    What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel's jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" to their stations. Joining us: Anna Gomez, FCC Commissioner  Ronnie London, FIRE General Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps:  00:00 Intro  04:46 What's the FCC? 07:35 What's the "public interest" standard? 14:20 What is the "fairness doctrine"? 25:21 What is the "broadcast hoax" rule? 28:55 What is "news distortion"? 35:31 Role of network affiliates 41:15 What happens now? Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-what-going-fcc Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

    48 min
  4. Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?

    SEP 16

    Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?

    FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech" 02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"? 05:42 How have "hate speech" laws played out overseas? 07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's "hate speech" remarks 08:50 Are "fighting words," "incitement," and "true threats" free speech? 11:22 What about doxxing? 15:15 Is it free speech to celebrate or condone the assassination of Charlie Kirk? 21:52 The termination of k-12 and university faculty in response to their commentary on Kirk's assassination 28:40 Is there a law that might implicate the Discord users who had reason to be aware of malicious intentions the shooter had towards Kirk ahead of the assassination? 30:05 The agency of speakers and those hearing their speech under the incitement standard 31:14 What are the differences between the free speech rights of citizens and non-citizens? 36:20 Does a court filing by President Trump as an individual in the New York Times lawsuit open him up to being deposed about a wide range of behaviors and actions? 37:40 What is the Trump's administration's legal strategy with the New York Times lawsuit? 39:24 What is FIRE doing about private employees being fired for their political commentary? 46:50 What is Charlie Kirk's legacy on free speech? 50:04 What is the difference between the academic protections enjoyed by tenured and non-tenured faculty members? 52:05 Does FIRE trust the Supreme Court to protect free speech? 56:12 How can we prevent capitulation from The New York Times? 59:20 How can ordinary people safely express their opinions on social media and promote civil discourse? Joining us: Ronnie London, general counsel Sarah McLaughlin, senior scholar, global expression Aaron Terr, director of public advocacy

    1h 5m
  5. Ep. 252: America's first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798

    SEP 15

    Ep. 252: America's first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798

    We're joined by award-winning author, Charles (Charlie) Slack, to discuss his book, Liberty's First Crisis: Adams, Jefferson and the Misfits Who Saved Free Speech.  Slack focuses on the infamous Sedition Act of 1798, which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk) 03:59 Book origins 12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts? 16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications 25:35 Free speech during the Revolutionary era 28:14 Adams' perspective on the Sedition Act 46:02 Was Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase a partisan hack? 53:57 Sedition Act fallout 01:01:02 Outro Read the transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-americas-first-free-speech-crisis-sedition-act-1798 Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

    1h 8m
  6. Ep. 251: Free speech and 'the executive power' with Advisory Opinions

    SEP 4

    Ep. 251: Free speech and 'the executive power' with Advisory Opinions

    What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump's TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president David French go on his first date? French and Sarah Isgur of the popular legal podcast "Advisory Opinions" join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE. Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 02:18 Origin story of "Advisory Opinions" 08:15 Disagreements between FIRE and AO 15:04 Why FIRE doesn't editorialize on the content of speech 24:27 Limits of presidential power 43:30 Free speech, the dread of tyrants 51:01 The prosecution of political figures 58:01 Cracker Barrel 01:00:09 State of the conservative legal movement Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

    1h 13m
  7. Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment

    AUG 28

    Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment

    We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech? University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, "How American Civil Rights Groups Defeated Hate Speech Laws." Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 04:04 "The Birth of a Nation" movie controversy 12:44 Henry Ford's anti-Semitic "Dearborn Independent" 22:41 American Jewish Committee's "quarantining" solution 28:41 ACLU's Eleanor Holmes Norton defending a racist in court 33:42 Racist Senate candidate J.B. Stoner 37:28 Neo-Nazis and Skokie 47:20 Why are college students afraid of saying "the wrong thing?" 52:31 Barbas' favorite free speech literature 53:15 Barbas' free speech hero Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-civil-rights-hate-speech-and-first-amendment.  Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: Morris Ernst, free speech renegade (Barbas' previous So to Speak appearance, July 29, 2021) Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) via FIRE

    57 min
  8. Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers

    AUG 12

    Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers

    2025 has not been kind to Harvard. To date, the Trump administration has revoked nearly $3 billion in research funding to the university, demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard filed a lawsuit, raising First Amendment claims.  Helping us unpack all things Harvard are: Larry Summers, President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE) Greg Lukianoff, President & CEO (FIRE) Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 02:32 Harvard's disputes with the Trump administration 08:29 The need for internal reforms at Harvard 42:50 Institutional neutrality debate 46:16 IHRA definition of anti-Semitism 01:01:28 Latest update on potential Harvard-Trump administration settlement Read the transcript here: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-fire-reacts-where-does-harvard-go-here-larry-summers Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack's paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—and Why They Fail by Greg Lukianoff & Nadine Strossen (2025)

    1h 9m
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4.6
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So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

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