Spiritual Life and Leadership Markus Watson

Claude Alexander is senior pastor of The Park Church in Charlotte, North Carolina and the author of Becoming the Church: God’s People in Purpose and Power.

The church has never been perfect.

It has always been filled broken people, sinful people, silly people, selfish people, violent people, manipulative people, mistaken people, intrusive people, rough-around-the edges people.

All kinds of people. Including good people, kind people, compassionate people, people of justice.

The church, we might say, is made of a “becoming” people.

That’s what Bishop Claude Alexander and Markus Watson discuss in this episode, focusing on what it means to be a people who, not only are the church, but who are continuing to become the church in all the fullness of who the church is meant to be.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:
Bishop Claude Alexander is senior pastor of The Park Church in Charlotte, North Carolina and the author of Becoming the Church: God’s People in Purpose and Power.Claude Alexander suggests there is a tendency to separate Jesus from the church.  But you can’t separate them.We need to temper our expectation that the church is a perfect product.The Church is essentially a people in the process of becoming.Claude Alexander describes Peter and Thomas as being “dechurched” after the death of Jesus.Churches need to do a better job of discipling people before they become dechurched.Many churches feel marginalized and decentered in Western society today.  But that is not a new experience for churches composed of racial and ethnic minorities.Our call in Christ, according to Claude Alexander, calls us to each other in the complexity of our diversity.Claude Alexander discusses the ways the apostles had to adapt in the early church, focusing especially on Acts 6.It was because of their obedience to what they knew that the apostles were able to seize later opportunities that God had for them.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:
Claude Alexander:www.claudealexanderministries.orgwww.theparkministries.orgTwitter - @bishopcrajrBooks mentioned:Becoming the Church: God’s People in Purpose and Power, by Claude AlexanderAnonymous: Jesus’ Hidden Years…and Yours, by Alicia Britt CholeLearn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.

On this episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the issue of power and the church's love affair with it, which is exceedingly harmful, especially considering our faith's cornerstone, the Suffering Servant.

Tod and Markus emphasize the importance of adopting a leadership model that is reflective of Jesus and prioritizes shared leadership. They also highlight the struggle for power and control that often comes with leadership, but Jesus's life and teachings resist the idea of lording over others in a leadership position.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Chuck DeGroat in Episode 82: Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership.

"There’s been this strange collusion and love affair with power that the church has had in general—which is interesting given that our faith is centered on the Crucified One, the Suffering Servant."

Ep. 82 is a conversation about Chuck DeGroat's book, When Narcissism Comes to Church.


TIMESTAMPS:
[00:01:31] Leadership is not about lording over others; even Jesus' closest disciples struggled with this temptation.

[00:03:12] Leadership should reflect Jesus and not be built on desires for power and control. Bad leaders are the problem and good shepherds are needed.

[00:06:27] Text summary: Chuck de Grote comments on the church's love affair with power despite being centered on the suffering servant.


Q&A:
1. What is the "Suffering Servant" leadership style and what does it require?
Answer: The "Suffering Servant" leadership style requires sharing and adaptivity.

2. What is the importance of the concept of power in ministry leadership?
Answer: The topic of power is one of the most deeply rooted challenges of being human, particularly for those in positions of authority, and it is essential for leaders to take it seriously and see it as a lifelong area for personal growth and development. 

3. How does the idea of being like God relate to the desire for power?
Answer: The idea of being like God was the first temptation, according to the Genesis story, and the desire for power is rooted in a deep human awareness of vulnerability.

4. What is Chuck DeGroat's quote about the church's relationship with power?
Answer: Chuck DeGroat notes that the church has a "love affair" with power, which is interesting given that faith is centered on the Suffering Servant.

5. What is Jesus' view on lording over others in leadership roles?
Answer: Jesus spoke out against the idea of lording over others in leadership roles and emphasized the importance of servant leadership.
Learn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.

David Zahl is founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries and the author of Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself).

One of the hardest lessons I’ve had to learn is that people are not always going to look out for what’s best for one another--or for me.  In fact, sometimes people are going to outright try to tear each other down. 

But our expectation is often that people would be good--an expectation that David Zahl says is rooted in a high anthropology.

But maybe what we need is a low anthropology—a way of understanding humanity as being essentially limited and broken and focused on their own good.

That sounds depressing. But David Zahl makes the case that a low anthropology actually helps us lead in a way that is more gracious and brings about more healing for people who are broken—including ourselves.


THIS EPISODES'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:
David Zahl is founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries and the author of Low Anthropology: The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others (and Yourself).One’s anthropology refers essentially to one’s view of human nature.According to David Zahl, a high anthropology views human beings as prone to doing great things and bringing about positive transformation.  Low anthropology views humanity as inherently limited, compromised, and is perhaps a more sober view of humanity.A high anthropology tends to breed a sense of entitlement in people.A low anthropology puts everyone on a level playing field.  We are all broken.David Zahl believes a low anthropology is a doorway to talking about grace.The three pillars of a low anthropology are:Limitation – There is a God and it’s not you.Doubleness – We are a bundle of competing motivations.Self-centeredness – We often want what’s bad for us or what comes at a cost for other people.David Zahl reflects on the ways that limitation, doubleness, and self-centeredness are experienced in churches.Ultimately, a low anthropology is a biblical anthropology.A low anthropology, according to David Zahl, says that people are fundamentally in need of help from other people and from God.A low anthropology allows us to encourage people in their giftings.A low anthropology goes hand in hand with a high Christology.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:
David Zahl:Mockingbird website - https://mbird.com/Mockingcast podcast - https://mbird.com/category/the-mockingcast/Books mentioned:Low Anthropology, by David ZahlSeculosity, by David ZahlLearn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Michael MacKenzie in Episode 122: Burned Out and Broken.

“Success is more dangerous for the human soul than failure.”

Ep. 122 is a conversation about Michael MacKenzie's book, Don't Blow Up Your Ministry.
Learn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.

What do you do when you’re set up to be the successor of the lead pastor of one of the biggest and most well-known churches in the world and suddenly everything comes crashing down? 

What do you do when it becomes clear that the beloved pastor you were meant to follow has been found to be abusive toward women—and the church’s leadership fails to take responsibility for the systems that allowed that?
What do you do?
This is exactly the situation that Steve Carter faced.  Steve was set to succeed Bill Hybels at Willow Creek Church in Chicago.  And when news broke of the things Hybels had done, Steve had to make a decision. 

Would he stay and become complicit in the system that made Hybels’ abuse possible?  Or would he step away and let go of everything that to this point had given him a sense of value and meaning?

Today, Steve Carter is the pastor of Forest City Church outside Chicago And the author of The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It).


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:
Steve Carter and Markus Watson walked the Camino de Santiago together in October 2022 as part of the Journey Home cohort led by Jon Huckins.Steve Carter met Bill Hybels while interning with Rob Bell.Steve joined the staff of Willow Creek Church and was soon tapped to succeed Bill Hybels as pastor of the church.Eventually, Steve found out (from his book editor!) that a story was going to come out about Bill Hybels.Ultimately, Steve resigned from Willow Creek because the story of Bill Hybels’ history of abuse was being mishandled by the leadership.  Steve felt that by staying he would have been complicit.Leaving Willow Creek was incredibly difficult and painful for Steve.It was while walking the Camino de Santiago that Steve Carter was finally able to say, “I love Bill Hybels.”Markus Watson shares about his experience of healing and transformation and healing while on the Camino de Santiago.According to Steve Carter, we need to respond to the reality of suffering in three ways:Past:  Practice forgiveness for what has happened.Present:  Rely on your core values—because you’re not going to make everyone happy.Future:  Prepare and practice for what may come.
RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:
Steve Carter:Forest City ChurchCraft and Character podcastBooks mentioned:The Thing Beneath the Thing, by Steve CarterJourney Home: A Pilgrimmage for MenLearn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Ian Morgan Cron in Episode 121: The Story of You.

"All transformation begins with story transformation."

Ep. 121 is a conversation about Ian Morgan Cron's book, The Story of You.
Learn how to lead your church into ministry that matters. Check out my online course, Engaging God's Mission.