Sustain SustainOSS

Guest

Simon Vansintjan


Panelist

Richard Littauer


Show Notes

In this episode, host Richard Littauer and guest Simon Vansintjan dive into the topic of open-source sustainability in the music industry. Simon, a long-time friend of Richard and a seasoned coder and designer, introduces Mirlo, an innovative online platform he's working on that combines elements of Bandcamp and Patreon to enable direct financial support for musicians. Mirlo, an open-source project built with a full-stack TypeScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React, aims to provide an alternative to traditional music streaming services by focusing on direct artist support and community engagement. Simon discusses the challenges and benefits of building Mirlo as a cooperative, the intricacies of its development and funding model, and the broader implications of open-source principles in creating a more equitable and sustainable ecosystem for musicians. Hit download now to hear more!


[00:01:38] What is Mirlo? Simon explains it’s an online record store where users can buy digital music directly from musicians and provide monthly support, similar to a combination of Bandcamp and Patreon.


[00:02:32] Simon discusses Mirlo’s open source status and its tech stack, which includes TypeScript/JavaScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React.


[00:03:13] Richard inquires about the origins of Mirlo, and Simon describes his work with Resonate, issues with legacy code, and the decision to create Mirlo to explore sustainable business models without venture capital.


[00:04:16] We hear that Spotify isn’t profitable as Simon discusses the challenges streaming service face, which led Mirlo to adopt a different model.


[00:05:04] Simon explains Mirlo’s co-op structure, focusing on worker empowerment and non-hierarchical decision-making, contrasting it with Resonate’s multi-stakeholder co-op model.


[00:08:57] Richard asks about Mirlo’s sustainability model. Simon describes Mirlo’s revenue model, which includes taking a small cut from each sale, user contributions that cover server costs, and plans for grants and a Kickstarter campaign.


[00:10:23] Simon explains the complexities of starting as a nonprofit and the decision to form an LLC for greater flexibility.


[00:11:03] Richard questions the distinction between artists and worker owners. Simon discusses the different models for including musicians as co-owners, ongoing experimentation with the co-op structure, and the importance of recognizing musicians’ contributions to Mirlo.


[00:13:07] The conversation turns to contributors to the GitHub codebase, and Richard mentions a couple of contributors and wonders if they have equal shares as worker owners. Simon explains that neither contributor is a worker owner, and he talks about the challenges in tracking contributions for co-ownership.


[00:16:28] Simon highlights the slow process of building trust and the challenges posed by financial constraints, emphasizing the need for time and money.


[00:18:29] Richard shifts focus to the codebase and notes the absence of contributing docs, asking about the onboarding process for new contributors. Simon explains their use of a Discord server for feedback and onboarding.


[00:20:18] Richard questions the benefits of being open source for Mirlo, and Simon emphasizes all the significant benefits of being open source.


[00:21:30] Mirlo’s competitive space is brought up and Simon acknowledges the moral aspect and mentions Mirlo’s near feature parity with Bandcamp, excluding merch and label support. He explains the Mirlo isn’t necessarily trying to compete directly with major platforms but aims to create a diverse, open, and transparent internet space.


[00:23:52] Simon explains the Kickstarter rewards, including a compilation album and merch, and when it ends.


[00:25:31] Richard praises Mirlo’s intentional cooperative approach and its efforts to maintain and grow the platform susta

Guest

Dr. Carlotta A. Berry


Panelist

Richard Littauer


Show Notes

In this episode, host Richard Littauer engages in a conversation with Dr. Carlotta Berry, a Professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology and a passionate advocate for diversity in STEM. Carlotta shares her journey from an undergraduate student rarely seeing diversity in her field to becoming an engineering professor determined to change that narrative. She discusses her work at the Children's Museum of Indianapolis, emphasizing the importance of making STEM accessible and exciting for all, especially girls and underrepresented minorities. She also dives into her motivations behind founding two nonprofits, Black in Engineering and Black in Robotics, highlighting their roles during the racial reckoning and the importance of maintaining momentum in diversity efforts amidst societal backlashes. Additionally, Carlotta touches upon her engagement with open source communities, particularly in robotics, to further democratize STEM education. The discussion also covers her unique approaches to connecting with younger audiences through hip hop slam poetry on TikTok and the significance of representation in every aspect of STEM, from academia to community initiatives. Press download now to hear more!


[00:01:05] Carlotta tells us about the Children’s Museum of Indianapolis and describes it as one of the largest children’s museums in the world, detailing its features and her role there in STEM and robotics activities.


[00:02:00] Richard comments on Carlotta’s extensive education and asks about her journey from PHD to her current position. She explains her motivation for pursuing a PhD was to become an engineering professor and to represent diversity in the field.


[00:02:59] Carlotta recounts that her PhD experience was relatively smooth compared to her undergrad challenges, highlighting the focus on subjects she loved.


[00:04:57] The conversation turns to Carlotta’s involvement with nonprofits, particularly ‘Black in Engineering’ and ‘Black in Robotics’, and she shares the origin of these groups. She talks about the purpose of ‘Black in Engineering’ and its relevance in the current political climate.


[00:08:26] Richard inquires how Carlotta stays motivated amid setbacks in civil rights progress. Carlotta cites the resilience of past civil rights leaders as inspiration and emphasizes the role of true allies.


[00:10:41] The discussion shifts to open source, and Carlotta outlines her work in STEM communication and her involvement with open source hardware through her robots, the ‘flower bots’. Also, she acknowledges she has built a community primarily through social media engagement.


[00:15:16] Carlotta explains Rose Bot’s origin, related to her school’s mascot, and its connection with various STEM outreach and education initiatives, such as Rosie, Lily, and Daisy bots. She celebrates the success of her program in increasing enrollment and diversity in computer science and software engineering, as well as her own department.


[00:17:50] Richard inquires about Carlotta’s day-to-day activities and how she manages everything. She clarifies she’s a workaholic with a high teaching lead at a teaching-focused school and does not balance well, yet she is passionate about her work, and she details her daily schedule.


[00:20:25] What is Carlotta’s mentoring approach for young women in STEM? She emphasizes honesty and support for her students, sharing her own struggles and the importance of community and resources to navigate the difficulties in engineering education.


[00:23:46] Richard asks Carlotta what changes she would suggest for the broader open source community to increase diversity and representation in STEM. Carlotta advises against working in silos, stressing the importance of education about open source, reaching beyond typical recruitment space

Guest

Susan Kennedy


Panelists

Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox


Show Notes

In this episode, hosts Richard Littauer and Eriol Fox chat with Susan Kennedy, a program manager at the Open Technology Fund (OTF), to explore the intricacies of sustaining open source technologies. OTF, a nonprofit organization, plays a vital role in promoting internet freedom in oppressive regimes by supporting the development of anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies. Funded by the U.S. Congress but operating independently, OTF aids in navigating the challenges attached to open source project sustainability and maintenance. Susan outlines OTF's fund mechanism, highlighting its commitment to supporting open source projects that are pivotal for internet freedom. Also, the episode shines a light on the newly initiated FOSS Sustainability Fund by OTF, designed to specifically address the financial and logistical hurdles facing open source technologies today. Press download to hear more!


[00:01:41] Susan explains the OTF’s role as a non-profit promoting internet freedom through anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies, mainly funded by the U.S. government but operates independently.


[00:02:37] There’s a comparison of OTF to Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, emphasizing differences in funding despite both being government funded.


[00:03:51] There’s a discussion on how OTF funds projects like Signal despite potential congressional controversies.


[00:04:15] Susan introduces the FOSS Sustainability Fund aimed at supporting open source technologies for internet freedom.


[00:06:15] Susan gives details on the scale of the FOSS Sustainability Fund, mentioning financial contributions from other private donors alongside U.S. government funds.


[00:07:34] We find out the details of eligibility criteria for FOSS Sustainability Fund applicants, as Susan emphasizes projects with a track record and active community engagement.


[00:09:00] Susan discusses the outcomes from the pilot funding round, focusing on the importance of community meetings and interaction. Also, she talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project.


[00:13:17] Susan talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project.


[00:15:19] Richard questions the approach of funding projects that are charismatic and grant-savvy, instead of focusing on lesser-known but critical projects, questioning the open application process. Susan defends the open application process of the Internet Freedom Fund, explaining it allows for a broader reach and inclusivity, ensuring opportunities for lesser-known projects to apply.


[00:17:06] Richard asks if a small, unrelated project like ‘right pad’ used by major projects can apply, leading to a broader discussion on the relevance of small projects within significant tools. Susan responds by focusing on the end-users’ needs, emphasizing the importance of even small projects if they are critical to larger tools like Tails.


[00:18:51] Susan highlights the two-phase application process designed to guide applicants efficiently, providing feedback and advice on project fit and impact, and she describes the iterative application process.


[00:19:51] Eriol discusses the advisory aspect of OTF’s application process, noting the interaction and intention of their approach which aids applicants in refining their proposals. They raise concerns about projects using sustainability funds to tackle debt and asks how OTF views the alignment of tech debt resolution with user-centric sustainability.


[00:21:34] Susan elaborates on distinguishing between tech debt and sustainability, advocating for a balanced approach that includes both technical fixes and enhancements in user engageme

Guest

Velda Kiara


Panelist

Richard Littauer


Show Notes

Today, host Richard has a conversation with guest Velda Kiara, a passionate open source developer. Velda discusses how open source has helped businesses, how it benefits both coders and non-coders, and how it can lead to career growth. She also talks about the challenges of open source, particularly in terms of finances and the sustainability of projects. The discussion also turns to Velda’s attendance at OSCA fest in Lagos, Nigeria, and her involvement with Black Python Devs. Velda shares her personal journey of contributing to Django and other Python projects and tells us about her experience joining programs like Djangonaut Space and contributing to projects like Novu. Press download now to hear more!


[00:00:10] The episode opens with Velda highlighting the ins and outs of open source, acknowledging that it allows for the use of software that businesses can monetize. She appreciates the good that comes from open source despite the criticism of some corporations. She acknowledges the pros and cons of open source, expressing hope that the pros will eventually outweigh the cons.


[00:02:21] Richard introduces Velda and praises her answer and asks if she’d like to change her initial statement. Velda stands by her answer, expressing willingness to continue the discussion for further insights on open source.


[00:03:31] Velda confirms her attendance at OSCA fest, mentioning he talk on building APIs with Django, DRF, and Open API, and discusses the importance of sustainability in growing the open source community in Africa.


[00:04:34] Richard inquires about Velda’s involvement with Black Panther Devs, and she explains the inception, its objectives, and activities like workshops and meetups that support the community.


[00:07:12] The conversation shifts to encouraging newcomers to join open source, emphasizing roles beyond coding, such as project management and writing.


[00:09:08] Richard and Velda discuss the challenges designers face in open source and the potential career benefits of contributing to open source, even for non-developers. Velda shares how open source helped her gain experience and improve skills, which is beneficial at any career level, and she discusses the “level up” aspect of open source and the learning opportunities it provides.


[00:12:00] Richard explores into the sustainability of open source for late-stage careers and the challenges maintainers face. Velda suggests using open source for mentorship and ensuring project continuity by engaging contributors and sharing maintenance responsibilities.


[00:14:02] What currently excites Velda about open source? She expresses her excitement about contributing to Django after building many websites with it and her positive experience at DjangoCon US, which she found to be an inclusive community. Also, she discusses Djangonaut Space, an eight-week program designed to assist new contributors like her in contributing to the Django framework or third-party packages.


[00:16:28] Velda mentions her contributions to other Python projects, such as Novu, and her new experiences working with SDKs. She reflects on the learning process in open source and shares her excitement for exploring various Python projects and talks about how she started a newsletter called, “The Storytellers by Tales.”


Quotes

[00:12:36] “If you eventually want to not let the project die, you could easily use open source as a way to mentor another person who’s going to help you maintain for a while if you want to retire or stop writing code in general.”


Links


SustainOSS
SustainOSS Twitter
SustainOSS Discourse
podcast@sustainoss.org
SustainOSS Mastodon
Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
Richard Littauer Socials
Velda Kiara X/Twitter
Velda Kiara LinkedIn
Velda Kiara Website
Black Python Devs
KJay Miller
Djangonaut Space
Novu
Sustain Podcast-Episode 169: Dawn Wages of PSF on organizing c

Guest

Kari L. Jordan


Panelist

Richard Littauer


Show Notes

In this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Dr. Kari L. Jordan, the Executive Director of The Carpentries, to discuss the organization’s mission, challenges, and strategies for fostering an inclusive community that teaches data and coding skills. We explore topics like sustaining open source projects, the importance of teaching open source tools and practices, and how The Carpentries contribute to the ecosystem. The conversation dives into the funding strategies, volunteer engagement, accessibility, and the future goals of The Carpentries, including spreading skills in data science and coding across diverse linguistic and geographical communities. Also, we’ll touch on broader issues such as equity in tech and the potential avenues for increasing participation of underrepresented groups in open source and data science. Press download to hear more!


[00:02:03] Richard asks Kari about The Carpentries work, and she gives her elevator pitch, emphasizing their mission of teaching inclusive data and coding skills.


[00:03:23] Kari discusses how The Carpentries incorporates open source principles in teaching various aspects, including community management and code of conduct. Also, she outlines the adjacent communities to The Carpentries, mentioning rOpenSci and the Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement.


[00:05:15] Richard jokes about The Carpentries being well-funded, and Kari clarifies their actual funding sources and the crucial role of volunteers.


[00:07:15] Kari details how the nine paid staff of The Carpentries structure their work across curricula development, workshops and instruction, and community engagement.


[00:08:59] A question comes up about The Carpentries success metrics, and Kari speaks on their goal to build global capacity in essential data skills for informed decision-making.


[00:11:56] Discussing the ethical use of data, Kari explains The Carpentries alignment with the FAIR Principles to ensure data management is equitable and accessible.


[00:14:47] Kari highlights the importance of recognition and appreciation in open source contributions, and speaks about the diversity in forms of appreciation, from LinkedIn badges to DOIs for contributions, and the necessity of different incentives.


[00:17:34] Kari acknowledges the divide and discusses how individuals in The Carpentries often pick a focus, be it teaching or lesson development, though some do cross over between data and open source contributions.


[00:19:37] Richard probes into the potential contribution of ‘data people’ to the burnout of open source maintainers and whether they should also contribute to the maintenance. Kari agrees on the correlation but suggests it might be a confidence issues and emphasizes the need to educate these individuals on the importance of their contributions.


[00:21:12] Richard seeks a clearer definition of what constitutes a contribution within The Carpentries, and Kari responds by referring to their Code of Conduct which clarifies that contributions are welcome as long as they adhere to it.


[00:22:45] What is Kari’s long-term vision for The Carpentries? She envisions their lessons being taught in hundreds of languages and spreading their educational model without a reliance on strong internet connections and mentions currently having a multilingual open source glossary called Glosario.


[00:25:26] Kari talks about the hardest part of her job, which is that volunteer capacity and revenue generation are current organizational priorities.


[00:28:29] What would Kari focus on in open source if she wasn’t with The Carpentries? She expresses her desire to concentrate efforts on equity and inclusion, specifically increasing the involvement of people of color in open source within the U.S.


[00:31:20] Richard asks Kari what she’s really excited about for the future of The Carpentries. She

Guest

Stephen Okonkwo


Panelist

Richard Littauer


Show Notes

In this episode of Sustain, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more!


[00:01:07] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA.


[00:02:01] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team.


[00:02:55] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain.


[00:03:40] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics.


[00:05:30] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users.


[00:06:37] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality.


[00:08:09] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot.


[00:10:15] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design.


[00:11:02] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design.


[00:12:06] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web.


Quotes

[00:05:19] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.”


[00:05:45] “Research is a very important part of design.”


Links


SustainOSS
SustainOSS Twitter
SustainOSS Discourse
podcast@sustainoss.org
SustainOSS Mastodon
Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
Richard Littauer Mastodon
Richard Littauer Instagram
Steve Okonkwo Twitter
Stephen Okonkwo LinkedIn
Steve Okonkwo Website
Penpot
OSCA
OSCA Festival


Credits


Produced by Richard Littauer
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
Special Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.
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