The VBAC Link Meagan Heaton

Meagan has a new co-host today! Rebecca, a pelvic floor physical therapist and a VBAC Link doula located in Georgia joins Meagan while our friend Hannah from North Carolina shares her birth stories. 

This episode stresses again the true importance of not just a supportive provider, but of a supportive practice including hospital policies, the team of rotating providers, and the nurses. Hannah shows how her borderline preeclamptic symptoms were treated very differently between her first and second births. Her first practice had many red flags she didn’t notice until her second practice showed green flag after green flag throughout her entire journey. 

Rebecca also shares her expertise surrounding pelvic floor PT– who needs it and how it can impact birth outcomes. She also debunks myths about small pelvises and talks in depth about scar tissue. 

Both women share such valuable tips that we know you will love!

Real Food for Pregnancy by Lily Nichols
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

03:11 Review of the Week
05:13 Hannah’s stories
08:17 Higher blood pressure readings and induction
10:26 Induction due to high blood pressure readings
11:52 Interventions and not being able to move during labor
16:50 Hannah’s C-section
19:36 Rebecca’s thoughts about pelvic bone structure
22:42 Second pregnancy
29:01 A medically necessary induction
33:27 Ending the first full day of induction
38:03 Pushing for 20 minutes
39:59 Hannah’s advice to listeners - provider support and nutrition
44:17 Small pelvises and scar tissue
50:13 Other scar tissue that can affect positioning


Meagan: Hey, hey Women of Strength. It is Meagan and guess what? We have a cohost today, a new cohost who has never been with us and we are so excited that she is joining us. We have Rebecca Goldberg on our podcast today. Hello, Rebecca. 

Rebecca: Hello. 

Meagan: Thank you for taking the time and being with us. 

Rebecca: Yeah. I really love the resources and the community and I’m just thrilled to be here. 

Meagan: Well, we are excited and for anyone wondering who Rebecca is, she is an amazing human being. She actually does a lot in pelvic PT and is one of our VBAC-certified doulas. She’s in Georgia. 

Rebecca: Yep. I’m in Atlanta, the Decatur area. 

Meagan: Decatur area. Is that where you serve mainly? 

Rebecca: Yeah. I have people who come to me from all over. Some people are traveling up to an hour or an hour and a half, but I actually can go to people’s homes who are directly in my area. So, people who are post-C-section, I can come to you as early as the day you are discharged. I can work with you deal with pain, make sure you know what needs to happen, and help you do all of the things. That’s where my passion really lies. 

Meagan: I love that. I love that and for VBAC, how early for pelvic floor and stuff? How early can you start working with them? 

Rebecca: As soon as they have gotten home. If they are planning on getting pregnant again, we can start building that into what our plans are so that we are starting that process earlier rather than later and you’re more likely to have results that when you are ready to get pregnant, you can just get pregnant. 

Meagan: Love it. Awesome. Well, thank you, thank you for being here. 

03:11 Review of the Week
Meagan: You guys, as usual, we have a Review of the Week. You don’t have to listen to me stumble upon the review. Rebecca will read it. I’m sure she will do a lot better than I normally do. 

Rebecca: Well, this review is from Apple Podcasts and it’s from semicrunchyyogi. I love that name. The review says, “My personal VBAC journey was actually directly influenced by Meagan Heaton, one of the hosts on this podcast. She was my doula with my second baby, my 10-pound VBAC baby.” Whoa. 

Meagan: Woo, yeah. 

Rebecca: “When she started this podcast, I knew it would be something special. I will a

It can be difficult to find VBAC support with gestational diabetes and most who are supportive of VBAC highly recommend a 39-week induction. Heidi’s first pregnancy/birth included gestational diabetes with daily insulin injections, a 39-week induction, Penicillin during labor for GBS, pushing for five hours, and a C-section for arrest of descent due to OP presentation. 

Heidi wasn’t sure if she wanted to go through another birth after her first traumatic experience, but she found a very supportive practice that made her feel safe to go for it again. Though many practices would have risked her out of going for a VBAC due to her age and subsequent gestational diabetes diagnosis, her new practice was so reassuring, calm, and supportive of how Heidi wanted to birth. 

Heidi knew she wanted to go into spontaneous labor and try for an unmedicated VBAC. With the safety and support of her team, she was able to do just that. At just over 40 weeks, Heidi went into labor spontaneously and labored beautifully. Instead of pushing for over five hours, Heidi only pushed for 30 minutes! It was exactly the dreamy birth she hoped it would be. 

Thrombocytopenia
Real Food for Gestational Diabetes by Lily Nichols
Informed Pregnancy Plus 
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

05:50 Review of the Week
08:04 Heidi’s first pregnancy with gestational diabetes
12:05 Taking insulin
18:08 39-week induction 
20:59 Pushing 
24:29 Arrest of descent and opting for a C-section
27:06 Researching providers before second pregnancy
38:04 Discussions around induction
41:45 NSTs twice a week
47:10 Testing for preeclampsia
54:53 Spontaneous labor
57:43 Going to the hospital
1:02:03 Laboring in the tub
1:06:22 Pushing for 30 minutes


Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is Meagan and we have a friend from New Hampshire. Her name is Heidi. Hello, how are you? 

Heidi: I’m doing great. How are you?

Meagan: I am so great. I’m excited to record this story today because there are so many times in The VBAC Link Community on Facebook where we see people commenting about gestational diabetes and for a really long time on the podcast, we didn’t have any stories about gestational diabetes. Just recently, this year really, we’ve had some gestational diabetes stories. I just love it because I think a lot of the time in the system, there is doubt placed with the ability to give birth with gestational diabetes or there is the whole will induce or won’t induce type thing, and with gestational diabetes, you have to have a baby by 39 weeks if they won’t induce you and it just goes. 

So I love hearing these stories and Heidi’s story today– she actually had gestational diabetes with both so with her C-section and with her VBAC. It was controlled. It was amazing. That’s another thing that I love hearing is that it is possible to control. We love Lily Nichols and the book about gestational diabetes and pregnancy. We will make sure to have it in the link, but it is so good to know that it doesn’t have to be a big, overwhelming thing. It can be controlled and it doesn’t have to be too crazy. Right? Did you find that along the way? 

Heidi: Yes. Yes, definitely. The first one was pretty scary, but then the second one, you know what you are doing and you can control it and you can keep advocating for yourself. 

Meagan: Absolutely. And then in addition to gestational diabetes, she had advanced maternal age barely with her second, but that is something that also gets thrown out. A lot of the time, we have providers saying, “We shouldn’t have a vaginal birth. We should have a C-section by this time,” so that’s another thing. If you are an advanced-maternal-age mama, listen up because here is another story for you as well. We don’t have a lot of those on the podcast. We are so excited to welcome Heidi to the show. 

05:50 Review of the Week
Meagan: Of course, we are going

Today we welcome Jayne Havens, the founder of the Snooze Fest sleep training course and The Center for Pediatric Sleep Management™ sleep consultant certification program. Just like how Meagan’s birth experiences led her to become a doula and VBAC advocate, Jayne talks about how the knowledge she gained by teaching healthy sleep habits to her own children helped her create a passionate career.

Jayne answers Meagan’s questions about sleep consulting in general, how to help children feel safe in their bedrooms, ways to effectively communicate, developmental milestones in both babies and children that can affect sleep, how to become a sleep consultant, where to find them, and even earning potential from a career as a sleep consultant!

Jayne's Course - Use code VBACLINK for a discount!
Becoming a Sleep Consultant Facebook Group
Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

02:24 Review of the Week
05:35 Jayne’s journey to sleep consulting
13:35 How can a sleep consultant help?
19:43 What to do when a child feels unsafe in their room
21:08 The life of a sleep consultant
25:17 Sleep consultant qualifications
30:36 Ages covered in Jayne’s course
36:00 How to find a sleep consultant
40:59 Cost to hire a sleep consultant and potential earnings as a sleep consultant
46:57 Where to find “Becoming a Sleep Consultant” 

Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is Meagan and we have my friend, Jayne Havens on the podcast today. Hello, Jayne. 

Jayne: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. 

Meagan: Thank you. Me too. We actually just met this year, 2024 in January and we met at a business doula retreat. Jayne is actually not a doula. She is a mom and a successful business owner. When we connected, I just felt so much that our stories related in different ways but very much in the same ways and I was like, “I want you on the podcast.” So today, we’re not sharing a VBAC birth story, but we’re sharing a business birth story and some tips on sleep and how to help your babies sleep because we know as mamas with newborn babies, we don’t get a lot of that sometimes and it doesn’t have to be that way. 

I’m so excited to have Jayne Havens who is a certified sleep consultant and runs her own sleep consulting practice, Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and you also have a podcast. 

Jayne: I do. It’s called Becoming a Sleep Consultant. 

Meagan: Becoming a Sleep Consultant. As a new parent overwhelmed by exhaustion like I just said we all have with a newborn, Jayne found herself reading everything she could find in order to get her own son to sleep through the night. Now, if you are driving, don’t raise your hand because keep your hands on the wheel, but you can nod if you understand that sentence right there. I definitely was that with my son and my daughter and my first. I’ve had three and we have to figure it out and every baby is different. 

So friends, quickly after she mastered this, started asking her, “Help, please!” She started doing that and helping all of these moms and babies sleep better, feel better, and just live better. Jayne’s children were both fabulous sleepers and they began coming to her for that help because they saw it. 

We are so excited to have Jayne today. 

02:24 Review of the Week
Meagan: I do think that a Review of the Week is needed so I”m going to hurry and share a Review of the Week and then we will dive right into this amazing episode. 

Okay, so this review is from sarahgb and it says, “Full of knowledge, fun, and strength-filled stories.” It says, “First off, I would like to say that I am 16 years old and a doula in training and lover of anything pregnancy, birth, and baby related. This podcast is literally exactly what I have been looking for and wanting. I have been listening for a long time and cannot stop. I think I’ve listened to four or f

“If you don’t know your options, you don’t have any!”

April is Cesarean Awareness Month and we hope this month is one of information, empowerment, and love from us here at The VBAC Link to you. Referring to the amazing resources provided by the International Cesarean Awareness Network (ICAN), Meagan and Julie break down the mission of Cesarean Awareness Month. 

Whether you are a first-time mom, VBAC mom, CBAC, or RCS mom, there is space for all of you! This month is meant to not only reduce Cesarean rates overall. It is also meant to inform everyone about birthing options, hospital rights, and ways to make Cesarean births better. We need all of our experiences to make positive changes in the birthing world for future generations! 

ICAN's Website
Cesarean Awareness Month Toolkit
Infant Mortality Statistics from 2022
Informed Pregnancy Plus
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

07:03 Review of the Week
09:29 Why we need Cesarean Awareness Month
13:12 ICAN’s Cesarean Awareness Month toolkit
16:00 Ways to make Cesarean births better
21:20 Common reasons for Cesareans
25:59 Your hospital rights
32:10 The safety of home birth
36:52 Lower Cesarean rates = lower infant/maternal mortality rates
40:38 A message to the CBAC community

Meagan: Hello, hello everybody. It is Meagan and I have Julie with us today. I always get so happy. 

Julie: Hello, hello. 

Meagan: We are going to be talking about International Cesarean Awareness Month. Now, this is sensitive. It’s sensitive. It can be sensitive. It’s a month, a whole 30 days or 29 days. I don’t actually know how long April is. 

Julie: April is not 29 days you crazy. That’s just February once every four years. 

Meagan: That’s just February. Maybe 30, maybe 31. I don’t know. 

Julie: April is 30 days always every year. 

Meagan: Is it? I don’t know my months apparently. 

Julie: Apparently. 

Meagan: It can be a long month for people and we’re going to talk a little bit more about that. But it stands for International Cesarean Awareness Month and it is a month that is truly just brought to create awareness around unnecessary Cesareans, around advocating for vaginal births after Cesarean, improving Cesarean recovery after, and really just spreading the word and getting the information out there because as someone who has been in the VBAC world before, we have been told many times that VBAC isn’t possible and Cesarean is a must. 

You know, Cesarean isn’t desired by everyone, and a VBAC isn’t desired by everybody, but it’s important to know the options. One of the coolest things is that ICAN which is a nonprofit organization created this mission and I’m just going to read it. Does that sound appropriate? 

“ICAN is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to improve maternal/child health by reducing preventable Cesareans through education, supporting Cesarean recovery, and advocating for vaginal birth after Cesarean for VBAC.” 

We are really grateful for ICAN. They do a lot of amazing things and I know that they were a big part of my journey. I mean, wouldn’t you say yours too, Julie? I think that’s actually where we might have met is an ICAN chapter meeting maybe. 

Julie: Where did we meet? Now I’m going to think. 

Meagan: I feel like I can picture you in a living room in a chair up front. You were very involved with the presenter and I was just there. 

Julie: Wasn’t it at your house? 

Meagan: No. 

Julie: Okay. Yeah, I remember that one. 

Meagan: It was at someone else’s house and anyway, that’s the first day I remember seeing your beautiful face. Crazy, but we love ICAN and we support them. Julie was just looking and they had a t-shirt. One of the things it says is, “You have options.” That is going to be one of the things that we are talking about today. 

Julie: Yeah. That was last year’s theme but they haven’t posted this ye

Hayley joins the show today sharing her breech Cesarean and unmedicated hospital VBAC stories. Meagan and Hayley dive deep into the pros and cons of getting an epidural and why providers tell women so many different things when it comes to epidurals and VBAC!

While Hayley had the dreamiest birth she could have imagined and everything went according to plan, her postpartum experience with prolapse was not something she was prepared for. Hayley shares her symptoms, what she wished she knew, and what she has done since to recover and feel like herself again. 

Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

02:47 Just-in-case epidural
04:16 Dr. McGuire’s insight on epidurals
08:42 Using an epidural as a tool
10:44 Hayley’s first pregnancy and birth
12:00 Doing VBAC research before pregnancy
13:51 Hayley’s second pregnancy
18:15 Labor begins
20:16 Going to the hospital
24:20 Pushing
27:05 Hayley’s prolapse experience
32:01 Symptoms of uterine prolapse
35:29 Prolapse can happen

Meagan: Hello, hello Women of Strength. You guys, I am excited about today’s episode. I love talking about VBAC obviously, but specifically, we are going to talk a little bit about unmedicated versus medicated. Our friend, Hayley, from North Carolina has had a beautiful unmedicated hospital VBAC so I want to also talk about the opposite side of that and talk about medicated VBAC. 

We have so many people in our community that I see type, “I want a VBAC, but I don’t want to go unmedicated and my doctor says I have to. I can’t have an epidural” or the total flipside of that where, “I really want an unmedicated VBAC, but my doctor says I can’t go unmedicated. I have to have the epidural.” Did I just say that correctly, Hayley? 

Hayley: Yes, yeah. 

Meagan: It’s either one or the other. We’ve got providers telling people they can’t have an epidural or they have to have an epidural. So I wanted to just talk a little bit today before we get going on those two topics. 

First of all, let’s talk about unmedicated birth. Hayley and I are living proof today. We are on this episode that unmedicated VBAC is 100% possible, achievable, and safe. A lot of those providers come out and say that they can’t go unmedicated because they say it’s not safe. In the rare chance, we know that uterine rupture happens but it is rare. In the rare chance of a uterine rupture, that is where they say that is not okay. 

Or they will say things like, “But you wouldn’t want to be knocked out for your birth,” which is scary. I don’t want to be knocked out for my birth and I know people have. A lot of the time, it is not the most pleasant experience. Yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about that. 

Unmedicated vaginal birth is unmedicated vaginal birth. That’s what it is. I’m just laying it out there. Yes, we have a slight increase in uterine rupture. Yes. What happens if we have a uterine rupture and we are unmediated? 

A lot of the time, we are noticing that there are signs of uterine rupture. When we get an epidural and a spinal, we go back and have a C-section. Simple as that. 

Or if it is a true medical emergency, yes, there is that small risk of needing to be put under. Small risk and small risk equal risk of course, but it’s low. 

02:47 Just-in-case epidural
Meagan: What about if we have the just-in-case epidural? I seriously sometimes just want to sock someone who says “Just in case”. We don’t need to be placing an epidural just to have it ready to dose because guess what? In the event that it is a true emergency and we really do need to go in for an immediate Cesarean, it’s the same thing. We get knocked out. 

I know that these words are kind of big and harsh words. We get knocked out, but we get put under general anesthesia if we don’t have anything in our system. 

Now, let’s talk about an epidural. You actually have an epidural placed. It’s runnin

Though Karen did research and took birthing classes before her first baby, she didn’t realize how much advocating for herself could change the course of her birth. She wanted to be the “good” patient and told herself she could do without the things her body told her she needed during labor. Karen ended up pushing for over four hours and consenting to what she was told was an emergency C-section, even though the actual surgery didn’t happen until hours later.

Karen had some serious postpartum symptoms of swelling and difficulty breathing that were dismissed and even laughed at until things came to a point where she knew something was very wrong. She was diagnosed with postpartum cardiomyopathy, admitted to the ICU, and transferred to cardiac care. 

Doctors told Karen very different things about her condition. She went from being told not to have any more children to hearing that VBAC was absolutely safe. Karen discusses how her gestational hypertension came into play with the different advice as well. 

Karen found her voice. She advocated for herself. She knew what her body was saying and what it was capable of. Her labor was so smooth and she WAS able to birth vaginally!

Informed Pregnancy Plus
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

3:46 Review of the Week
06:27 Karen’s stories
08:50 First labor
10:47 Pushing for four hours
15:11 Karen’s C-section
17:43 Postpartum swelling and difficulty breathing
21:03 Fluid in her lungs
23:52 Moving to Florida and getting answers
25:13 Getting pregnant again
29:53 Advocating for a VBAC
32:14 A spiritual dream
34:34 Gestational hypertension
39:36 Signing an AMA
41:31 Going to the hospital
45:20 Pushing for 20 minutes
47:30 White coat syndrome
51:59 Symptoms of hypertension and preeclampsia
54:52 Tips for hypertension and preeclampsia 
56:55 Karen’s final tips

Meagan: Hello, hello. We are getting into almost our 300th episode, you guys. Every single time I’m recording and I’m looking at these numbers, I am blown away. I cannot believe that we have almost put out 300 episodes. Oh my goodness. I am so glad that you are here. 

I have this energy this year. I don’t know what it is. You’ll have to let me know if you notice it, but I have this energy every time I’m recording this podcast. 2024 is vibing. I’m vibing with it. I’m really liking it. 

We have our friend Karen and are you from Florida, Karen? 

Karen: Yep. I’m in Orlando, Florida. 

Meagan: Florida. That’s what I was thinking. So if we have Florida mamas looking for providers, this is definitely an episode. I feel like probably weekly we would get 10 messages asking about providers and Florida is huge so Florida is actually one that is really common where we are getting messages for supportive providers. 

So Karen, along the way, if you feel to name-drop some providers that are supportive, feel free to do so but we are going to get into sharing her story in just one moment because we do have a Review of the Week. 

3:46 Review of the Week 
Meagan: This is from louuuhuuuu. So louuuhuuuu, thank you for your review. They say that this is “very inspirational.” It says, “I knew I wanted a VBAC with my third pregnancy, but I wasn’t sure if it was possible. However, I knew I didn’t feel like being flat-out told, ‘No’ at the first appointment. Listening to the podcast was definitely the start of me really researching birth and looking into my options. I ended up with a successful HBA2C and I definitely don’t think I would have had the courage or believed it was possible without this podcast. Thank you, Meagan, for all of the work that you do to provide this information.” 

I love that review so much. I think that through time in my own research, I was told no. I wasn’t told, “No, no.” I was told, “Sure, probably yeah. You could VBAC,” but I never really got that positive vibe. I feel like this commun