70 episodes

This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion.

Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice.

"The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change.

The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.

The Way Out Is In Plum Village

    • Religion & Spirituality
    • 4.9 • 928 Ratings

This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion.

Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice.

"The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change.

The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.

    Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)

    Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)

    Welcome to episode 67 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    This inaugural live recording of the podcast was made in London, England, on April 5th, 2024, before a sold-out audience of more than 400 people. For the first half of this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore what it means to step into freedom in the light of Buddhist teachings, drawing on insights from the life and teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh, and including much needed practical steps which can be applied to our daily lives. Their conversation touches upon the pressure of perfection; layers of freedom; the best time to make a decision; experiencing gratitude; true happiness; vulnerability as an expression of love; working with the feeling of ‘not enough’; and much more.The second half of the episode consists of a live question-and-answer session, with questions from the audience covering a wide range of topics: ways to embrace suffering; compassionate sharing; ending wars by cultivating peace; the joy of missing out; cultivating aspirations; empathy and mindfulness; and more.  



    And this time you can even enjoy two short meditations guided by Brother Phap Huu.Thank you for listening! 







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing 



    Stepping into Freedom: An Introduction to Monastic Buddhist Traininghttps://plumvillage.org/books/stepping-into-freedom 



    ‘Cong Phu Journal – Everything You Need to Know About the Practice Notebook’ https://plumvillage.app/cong-phu-journal-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-practice-notebook/



    Old Path White Clouds: Walking in the Footsteps of the Buddha https://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2 



    Rains Retreathttps://plumvillage.org/articles/now-we-have-a-path-2023-24-autumn-winter-rains-retreat 



    Christiana Figuereshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiana_Figueres 



    Dalai Lamahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama 



    World Wildlife Fundhttps://www.worldwildlife.org/







    Quotes



    “We’re all looking to feel free, to be ourselves, to find happiness, to be recognized, to love and be loved. It’s at the core of our deepest aspiration in life. And yet, oftentimes, we don’t feel like that. We feel disturbed in our mind; we suffer from anger or frustration; we’re too busy; we have many obligations in our lives; we’re constantly bombarded with news and social media. And so we experience a dissonance between this wish to be free and our everyday lives.”



    “Practicing mindfulness is, first, a practice of mere recognition, to call our habits by their name and to recognize the sources of energy that emerge in us. That, already, is the first step towards freedom. And freedom is a continuous energy and a continuous insight that we are cultivating. Thich Nhat Hanh was very firm when he said we all have the ability to have freedom, but here freedom doesn’t come from outside in, but is what we cultivate from the inside.” 



    “Thay wasn’t ever using the war to affirm who he was. He was free from that. And that is something that I still aspire to walk towards. And when we talk about cultivating, it is very practical; it’s not just a mindset. Mindset is like a will – but, for us, aspiration has to go alongside action. So, very concretely, in the Plum Village tradition of Buddhist practice, in all of our Dharma, we have to engage in everyday life.” 



    “Thich Nhat Hanh was once asked, ‘Wh

    • 2 hr 4 min
    The Practice of Gratitude (Episode #66)

    The Practice of Gratitude (Episode #66)

    Welcome to episode 66 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    This time, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino talk about the practice of gratitude and its power to shine a light in even the darkest circumstances. Their conversation touches on many aspects of gratitude, from the way it has been viewed in Buddhism since the days of the Buddha, to gratitude for life, gratitude as a gift and a rebalancer, and gratitude even when things don’t go well.  



    Brother Phap Huu further talks about nourishing our deep connection to interbeing; opening our hearts to suffering; loneliness in the monastic community;  gratitude for the Earth, all living beings, and (even) minerals; the feeling of ‘enough’; the Cong Phu Sheet; and more. And why is gratitude a such a difficult practice, even when there are many opportunities to apply it?



    Jo delves into daily practices of gratitude; coming back into balance; Christmas presents and meaninglessness; approaches to economic development in Bhutan; and more. 



    The episode ends with a short meditation on gratitude guided by Brother Phap Huu.







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    The Way Out Is In live recordinghttps://wakeuplondon.org/thewayoutisin/ 



    Bodhicittahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta 



    Old Path White Clouds https://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2 



    Anandahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80nanda 



    Shariputrahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śāriputra 



    Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing 



    Bhutanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan 



    The Alchemisthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alchemist_(novel) 



    Dharma Talks: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation or the Three Dharma Seals’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-three-doors-of-liberation-or-the-three-dharma-seals-sr-chan-duc-italian-retreat-2018-05-04‘Cong Phi Journal – Everything You Need to Know About the Practice Notebook’ https://plumvillage.app/cong-phu-journal-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-practice-notebook/



    Maudgalyayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudgalyayana 



    ‘A Teacher Looking for His Student’https://plumvillage.org/poems 



    Brother Bao Tang (Brother Treasure)https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-bao-tang



    Gratitude for the Four Elements (short audio meditation by Brother Phap Dung) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWQlmyXF7fc







    Quotes



    “When we really touch the present moment with the deep insight that ‘what I have here is enough’, we start to touch freedom. But a lot of us are afraid to come home to ourselves. And the whole art of meditation is learning to come home.”



    “Gratitude is a practice and a muscle that we need to develop. Because if we have a practice of gratitude, then being grateful is going to flow much more easily.”



    “There is a lot of suffering today, but if we focus solely on that suffering, we may also lose the light. Therefore, gratitude becomes a light that we want to protect, to give us hope, to help us know why we are doing what we’re doing, for the activists to know what they are protecting, for the people who are calling out injustice to be grateful that, as human beings, we can use our voices to speak about suffering.”

    • 1 hr 24 min
    Taming Our Survival Instinct (Episode #65)

    Taming Our Survival Instinct (Episode #65)

    Welcome to episode 65 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    This episode is the second to be recorded live in front of an audience, in the Still Water Meditation Hall of Upper Hamlet, Plum Village, France.



    This time, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by frequent guest Sister True Dedication (Sister Hien Nghiem). Together, they discuss ‘manas’: in Buddhism, “an aspect of the mind that wants to believe we’re separate, wants to crave after all the pleasures of life, wants to avoid suffering, and does not like the idea of moderation.” 



    The two monastics begin by defining manas and their larger context, as well as sharing relevant examples from their lives and the community, to support a better understanding of these concepts. The live discussion touches upon topics such as right diligence, watering the right seeds in us, Buddhist psychology, understanding how the mind works, the laws of moderation, reality checks, the importance of community in taming manas, the seven characteristics of manas, and much more.



    The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.Enjoy!







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    Sister True Dedicationhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem 



    The Way Out Is In: ‘Understanding How Our Mind Works (Episode #28)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/understanding-how-our-mind-works-episode-28 



    Sister Lang Nghiemhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem 



    Yogacharahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara 



    The Way Out Is In: ‘Shining Light (Episode #63)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/shining-light-episode-63 



    Dharma Talks: ‘Manas Consciousness, Teachings on Buddhist Psychology Retreat, 1997’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/manas-consciousness-thich-nhat-hanh-teachings-on-buddhist-psychology-retreat-1997 



    Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing 



    Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana 



    ‘51 Mental Formations’https://plumvillage.org/transcriptions/51-mental-formation 



    Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path



    Classes: ‘(Class #13) Right Diligence’https://plumvillage.org/library/classes/class-13-right-diligence







    Quotes



    “Mindfulness has to be a verb. Compassion has to be a verb. We have to practise compassion for ourselves.”



    “If you want a child to stop playing with something, you have to give him something else to play with.”



    “Mindfulness is always to be mindful of something. The energy of mindfulness is like a light that we are able to generate, and we can shine that light towards ourself.” 



    “Our manas is what keeps us alive, and we take care of it with nonviolence, with compassion, and with the insight of interbeing and nondiscrimination. Thay is known for his worldly or political nondiscrimination, but his insights on nondiscrimination extend to our whole being, our whole mind, and what it means to be human. And there’s so much compassion and nonviolence in that.” 



    “We always say understanding – true, real understanding, right understanding – will generate compassion. And compassion is one of the elements of true love for oneself and for others.” 



    “In the path that Thay has opened up for us, we are allowed to show up with our whole self, including all our shortcomings, and it’s such a special feeling to be accepted for who you

    • 1 hr 49 min
    Ripening Moment by Moment (Episode #64)

    Ripening Moment by Moment (Episode #64)

    Welcome to episode 64 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    This episode is the first to be recorded live in front of an audience, in the Still Water Meditation Hall of Plum Village, France, during a retreat, rather than in Thay’s Sitting Still hut. 



    Together, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore the Buddhist concept of ripening, or the Fourth Dharma Seal of Plum Village: the understanding that the care, love, attention, and commitment we put into what’s important in life take time to ripen, and that we shouldn’t expect instant results.



    Brother Phap Huu starts off by introducing the first Three Dharma Seals and why Thay created them, before digging deeper into the Fourth Dharma Seal, the main theme of this episode; the process of ripening; the life journey of the practice; and much more.



    Jo brings examples of lifelong journeys of forgiveness, and explores trust versus control, dharma rain, and more.And: how can we all apply this practice of ripening to our own lives?



    The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. 







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    The Way Out Is In – Live recording informationhttps://wakeuplondon.org/thewayoutisin/



    ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village 



    Sutras: ‘Discourse on the Dharma Seal & the Three Doors of Liberation’https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-the-dharma-seal-the-three-doors-of-liberationInterbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterbeingThe Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18 



    Dharma Talks: ‘Three Doors of Liberation’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/three-doors-of-liberation-br-phap-khi-italian-retreat-2018-05-01/



    ‘The Doors of Liberation’https://www.lionsroar.com/the-doors-of-liberation-may-2014/ 



    Mahayanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahayanaDharma Talks: ‘Right View: Understanding the Roots of Our True Happiness’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/right-view-understanding-the-roots-of-our-true-happiness 



    Old Path White Cloudshttps://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2



    Fragrant Palm Leaves https://plumvillage.org/books/1998-neo-ve-cua-y-fragrant-palm-leaves



    Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongSister Lang Nghiemhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem 



    Sister True Dedicationhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem







    Quotes



    “When we practice meditation and mindfulness to come home to the here and now, we start to discover that the present moment is the only moment in which we can be alive. And the present moment embraces the past as well as creating the future.”



    “If we don’t have darkness, the light won’t have a chance to appear.”



    “It is impossible to physically go back to the past, but I can bring the past into the here and now, and heal it by being right here, right now. By this present moment, I am creating a new path.”



    “The world is created by our mind.” 



    “The insight of ripening allows us to understand that the path of practice is a wonderful journey, and that it takes time and space for things to mature, for things to transform, for things to heal. When we hear about ripening, we may think of a tree – say, an orange tree. It takes time for the seed to be planted. For the roots to de

    • 1 hr 40 min
    Shining Light (Episode #63)

    Shining Light (Episode #63)

    Welcome to episode 63 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino explore ‘shining light’. This deep-looking practice, established in the Plum Village community, allows monastics to share and receive feedback, so that they can learn and grow together, and better understand each other.



    Fresh from a shining light session, Brother Phap Huu offers insights into the practice and its evolution over the years, while Jo brings insights from feedback systems in the lay communities. Their conversation touches upon radical transparency, power dynamics, generating joy and happiness in the sangha, the practice of gratitude, the importance of language in the process of growth, bringing this shining light into the everyday, and much more. 



    Enjoy!







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    ‘Shining the Light’https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/shining-the-light/ 



    ‘The Practice of Gratitude’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-practice-of-gratitude 



    Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing



    Sutras: ‘Discourse on the Dharma Seal & the Three Doors of Liberation’https://plumvillage.org/library/sutras/discourse-on-the-dharma-seal-the-three-doors-of-liberation



    ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village 



    Bhikkhuhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhikkhu 







    Quotes



    “Meditation on offering guidance. Lord Buddha and teachers over many generations, today we have a chance to practice offering guidance to our brothers, sisters, and friends. We know that in spirit, we are all part of one sangha, that our flesh and bones are also part of one sangha. Therefore, we are aware that offering guidance to another is offering guidance to ourselves. We vow to use all of our love and understanding in order to practice offering guidance. We promise that every word we speak will come from the good intention of wanting to have a correct view about the person to whom guidance is being offered. We vow not to let our anger, sadness, and prejudice wrongly influence our opinion. We promise that every word we speak will come from love, because offering guidance to one is also offering guidance to many. We are aware that this practice will offer benefits to each of us. Dear Buddha and ancestral teachers, please support us in our wholehearted effort to successfully offer guidance today.” 



    “The essence of this [practice] lies in real friendship or in real relationships. According to my understanding and experience of relationships, they require the time and space to acknowledge the flowers, as well as to support one another when we see a particular negative habit or tendency. This may be a viewpoint, or a recurring action. And if you don’t fix it, or if you don’t support the other person to change it, it will grow.”



    “When you hear something as simple as, ‘When you smile, brother, you make the whole room smile’, that’s a wonderful quality [to be told that you have]. I received this [complement] when I was a young novice. And I’d never experienced that before: being acknowledged for a simple action that can help brighten the room. And that became one of the threads in the fabric of who I am, and I always remember that [complement] when I smile. So shining light can water the seed that helps the wonderful characteristics of a human being grow and develop.” 



    “Freedom is freedom from something

    • 1 hr 32 min
    The Heart of Meditation – Part Two (Episode #62)

    The Heart of Meditation – Part Two (Episode #62)

    Welcome to episode 62 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



    In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino continue their discussion with Sister True Dedication (Sister Hien Nghiem) about the 16 exercises of mindful breathing which are at the heart of the teachings offered by Thich Nhat Hanh and the Plum Village community. 



    This episode, the second of a two-part special, explains and breaks down the practice of breathing exercises nine to 16. It includes the exercises’ traditional texts, revised versions, and variations and adaptations, with extensive explanations given by the two monastics about how to apply each to our daily lives. The first eight exercises are also briefly recapped, along with a description of the Three Doors of Liberation.



    Also, where do the 16 exercises come from? How do we gladden the mind? What is true strength? What about authenticity? Why is it important to name the mental formations? What does liberation feel like? And how do we integrate the 16 exercises into a busy life? These and many other questions are answered in this installment of the podcast.Enjoy.







    Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



    And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



    With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/







    List of resources 



    Sister True Dedication https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem/ 



    Songs: ‘The 16 Exercises of Mindful Breathing’https://plumvillage.org/library/songs/the-16-exercises-of-mindful-breathing 



    Thay’s Poetry: ‘Please Call Me by My True Names (Song & Poem)’https://plumvillage.org/articles/please-call-me-by-my-true-names-song-poem 



    Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing 



    Sister Jinahttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dieu-nghiem 



    ‘51 Mental Formations’https://plumvillage.org/transcriptions/51-mental-formation 



    Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’ https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path



    The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18 



    The Art of Living https://plumvillage.org/books/the-art-of-living 



    Chinese Buddhist canonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_canon



    Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Remembrances’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-remembrances-sr-thuan-nghiem-spring-retreat-2018-05-17



    ‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village 



    Master Tang Hoihttps://plumvillage.org/books/master-tang-hoiNagarjunahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarjuna 



    Yogacharahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara 







    Quotes



    “‘What is going on in my mind?’ This phrase is a mental formation. And, especially in our tradition of Buddhism, we love this term ‘formation’; it means that everything is made of everything, is composite. Even our happiness, our sorrow, or our depression is made of lots and lots of different elements. There are many threads to them, and that insight, simply the word ‘formation’, can help us to not be so scared or overwhelmed by our feelings. There’s an inquiry here, an investigation: ‘What is going on in my mind? What has come to be, what has formed in my mind at this moment?’”



    “In terms of Buddhist psychology, because our mind has different layers and different depths, we can be carrying a feeling in it without knowing that we’re carrying it. And I would say my loneliness is a feeling. It’s partly in the body, but largely in the mind, because o

    • 1 hr 59 min

Customer Reviews

4.9 out of 5
928 Ratings

928 Ratings

marketpop ,

Great live episode

I was pleasantly surprised at how Jo and Phap Phu stuck compassionately to the subject. Live audiences seem to have an odd sense of what’s funny, however. Loved it!

farimah b ,

Beautiful

This is a very calming and wonderful podcast to listen too all the time . I just love it that it is so easy to follow. Thank you

piamalouisa ,

Grounding, insightful and a source of calm

I deeply appreciate this podcast. Brother Phap Huu, Jo Comfino and their frequent and dynamic guest Sister True Dedication share such honest, clear wisdom that always helps me center myself and is a reminder of the power of simplicity. I use the 5 min meditations at the end of the sessions as daily centering exercises. Truly wonderful.

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