Unlearn

Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn
Unlearn

Digital transformation has changed the way businesses buy. But the direct marketing and sales playbooks that are decades old are still in use. On Unlearn, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn talk to leaders who are unlearning old motions and innovating in how they Go-To-Market. We take a deep dive into community, partnerships and ecosystems, dark social, customer centricity, market incentives, and new tactics none of us have heard of yet but are already working.

  1. DEC 2

    Ep 32 | Shaping the Future of Design: Exploring Canva’s Ecosystem with Anwar Haneef

    In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn chat with Anwar Haneef, Head of Ecosystem at Canva, about the company's innovative approach to empowering developers. Anwar explores Canva's ecosystem, showcasing tools like the Apps SDK and Connect API, which enable seamless integrations across platforms. He shares insights on Canva’s expansive reach, partnerships with industry giants like Meta and Salesforce, and how the $50 million Developer Innovation Fund supports sustainable ecosystem growth. Tune in for a look at how Canva is shaping the future of design, collaboration, and developer success. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:19 - Canva's Developer Ecosystem and Infrastructure 06:39 - Examples of Canva's Developer Integrations 12:56 - Diversity of Canva's Ecosystem and User Community 19:48 - Monetization Strategy for Canva's Developer Ecosystem 31:25 - Canva's Innovation Fund and Long-Term Sustainability 33:00 - Go-to-Market Strategies with Partners 39:14 - Team Structure and Organizational Design 54:12 - Final Thoughts and Future Plans Final Thoughts and Future Plans Anwar shared that Canva is focused on enhancing functionality and support for developers, including introducing new integrations and tools. He also mentioned a selective approach to onboarding new partners for the premium app program, prioritizing quality and user value.  Key Takeaways -  Developing a sustainable monetization model for a developer ecosystem is crucial, beyond just relying on fixed funding sources. Encouraging a freemium approach and revenue sharing can create a self-sustaining economy. Aligning deeper go-to-market relationships between partnerships, product, and sales teams can be challenging, but is important to provide a cohesive experience for customers and partners. Organizing teams around "super groups" or pods that have cross-functional autonomy can foster faster innovation and better integration between different disciplines like product, engineering, and partnerships. Empowering teams to focus on "doing the work" rather than rigid hierarchies and titles can promote a more collaborative and nimble culture Designing the business model and user experience upfront, before extensive development, can lead to better outcomes than a "build first, design later" approach. Key Quotes -  "Before we start anything, we usually spend a lot of time designing it first. This creates a much better experience because it ensures everything is well-articulated and users are properly guided. When you focus on design upfront, you can build faster, as many of the issues that arise from building first and designing later are avoided." - Asher Mathew "We want Canva to be wherever there is an intention for design. Whether it's creating a QBR, designing a t-shirt, or planning team swag, we aim to be available anytime, anywhere, for any user with design needs." - Anwar Haneef "Many platforms say, 'We've made ourselves extensible—come build on us,' but Canva has gone beyond that. Not only has it made itself extensible, but it has also made it incredibly easy to embed Canva into other products. This allows users to access Canva seamlessly within those products, maintaining a consistent experience." - Kelly Sarabyn

    55 min
  2. NOV 22

    Ep 31 | Untangling the Digital Maze With Partnerships

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn connect with Eron Sunando, Asana's Head of Channels & Alliances. Fresh from Asana's Partner Summit, Eron brings a unique perspective on how partnerships can simplify the increasingly complex world of business technology. Drawing from his globe-trotting career that spans from UBS to Salesforce, Eron unpacks the challenges facing today's businesses – from overwhelmed SMB owners to sales teams juggling multiple tools. He shares an insider's look at Asana's fresh approach to partnerships, including their new partner program and the game-changing AI Studio. Join us for a practical conversation about reducing tech complexity, building meaningful partnerships, and finding the sweet spot between AI automation and the human touch in partner management. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction and Eron’s career journey 04:20 - Complexity of modern tech stacks 10:00 - Reducing Complexities for SMBs 16:00 - Asana's Partner Summit and Program Relaunch 22:00 - Partnerships with MasterCard and Other Ecosystem Players 28:00 - Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Partner Programs 34:00 - Asana's Use of AI and the Launch of AI Studio 40:00 - Managing Partner Relationships with Asana's Internal Tools 45:00 - AI and Partner Management 50:00 - Asana's AI Studio and the Shift Towards Customizable AI Workflows 52:00 - Evolving Partner Program Structure Key Takeaways -  Complexity of Modern Tech Stacks: Customers, especially SMBs, are overwhelmed by the growing number of applications and tools they need to manage, highlighting the need for partners to simplify and integrate these solutions. Asana's Flexible Partner Program: Asana is launching a new partner program with distinct paths for different partner types (solution, services, tech, referral), allowing for a more tailored approach to partner engagement. Leveraging AI for Partner Management: While AI can automate certain partner management tasks, the human touch remains crucial for building strategic relationships and providing customized support. Asana's AI Studio offers a flexible, customizable platform for partners to create AI-driven workflows. Centralized Partner Relationship Management: Asana uses its own collaborative work management platform to facilitate communication, task tracking, and coordination with its partner ecosystem, providing a unified system for managing partner activities. Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Models: Asana opted for a competency-based partner program structure, citing the complexity of implementing an outcome-based model that would require sophisticated backend systems and processes. Key Quotes -  "I was excited to talk with you because, traditionally, a partnership leader’s worst nightmare is working with a CRO. Few people have experienced both roles firsthand, but you’ve done exactly that." - Asher Mathew "What's top of mind for me is that, as you know, AI is everywhere. But what I often hear from our customers is that their tech stack has become very complex." - Eron Sunando

    53 min
  3. OCT 21

    Ep 30 | Navigating the Future of Partnerships

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn welcome Rich Gardner, a partnership maven with a knack for turning industry insights into actionable strategies. Fresh from events like Catalyst and Dreamforce, Rich shares his take on peer-to-peer learning and aligning partnerships with the big picture. Drawing from his time at Klaviyo, Rich dives into the nitty-gritty of being a true partnership operator. Join us for a candid conversation about where partnerships are headed and how to keep everyone – from your team to your partners – rowing in the same direction. It's a down-to-earth look at the future of business collaboration, sprinkled with Rich's real-world wisdom. Chapters -  00:00 - Introduction 03:14 - Reflections on Catalyst and Peer-to-Peer Learning 09:47 - CEO Involvement and Partnership Strategy 14:02 - Challenges in Measuring Partnership Impact 20:23 - Operator Mindset 29:01 - The Future of Partnerships and Marketplaces 39:38 - Challenges in Collaboration with Product Teams 47:41 - The Evolution of Partnerships and Future Opportunities 50:55 - Closing Remarks Key Takeaways -  Partnerships leaders need to better communicate the value of partnerships to CEOs by understanding the CEO's priorities and speaking their language in terms of business metrics and growth. Measuring and attributing partnership impact is a complex challenge that requires rigor and instrumentation, which partnership leaders need to focus on. Product teams can be resistant to co-building or allowing third-party integrations, so partnership leaders need to frame partnerships as a way to help product teams achieve their goals faster. Partnership leaders need to adopt an operator mindset, understanding the entire business and being able to translate partnerships' value across different functions. The rise of platforms, marketplaces, and the democratization of integration/development due to AI presents both challenges and opportunities for partnership leaders to navigate. Key Quotes -  “Now is the perfect time to claim a seat at the table, given the shifts in the market. The key for leaders is to focus on being effective operators” - Asher Mathew "To succeed as a partnerships leader, regardless of your title, you must understand your product, customer success, sales, and what matters to finance. You need to grasp it all—essentially acting as a mini-CEO." - Rich Gardner "It's complex to map out these dynamics. Crossbeam has attempted to visualize the cloud, but when you consider hyperscalers and their marketplaces, they're now incorporating business software, not just IT and dev tools. This creates layers of ecosystems within ecosystems. Even hyperscalers are part of others' ecosystems, so no one is just a platform anymore—everyone is both a participant and a platform." - Kelly Sarabyn

    54 min
  4. JUL 31

    Ep 29 | The Ripple Effects of Social Media: Understanding Impacts and Driving Positive Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn engage in a compelling discussion on the impacts of social media. They are joined by author Tobias Rose-Stockwell, known for his book "Outrage Machine,"  Tobias, a seasoned researcher in technology's societal impacts, shares insights gathered over a decade of study. His expertise sheds light on how platforms like Slack can disrupt workplace dynamics and productivity.  The episode delves into the complexities of social media's influence, exploring themes of workplace disruption, productivity challenges, and strategies for enhancing online trust and fact-checking. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating the evolving landscape of social media and its broader implications. Chapters -  00:00 - Social media's impact on workplace productivity and interpersonal relationships.  7:56 - How digital communication changes social dynamics in the workplace.  12:38 - How social media impacts moral emotions and mental health.  16:32 - Social media companies' ethical issues and how they prioritize engagement over morality.  21:03 - LinkedIn's algorithm and its impact on content visibility and toxicity. 27:51 - LinkedIn algorithm and content optimization.  31:50 - Creating and managing online communities, with a focus on engagement and outcomes.  35:30 - Content moderation challenges in social media platforms.  39:19 - Improving social media fact-checking through community-driven, AI-augmented platforms.  43:35 - Building trust in social media with a focus on verification engines and trust and safety teams.  Key Takeaways -  Social media platforms like Slack can negatively impact workplace productivity and creativity due to constant distractions and performance-based interactions Writing text removes non-verbal cues and context, making online communication more open to misinterpretation compared to in-person interactions  Prioritizing engagement alone can incentivize the spread of misinformation over truthful information on social media Community-driven fact-checking and citations from reputable sources can help combat viral misinformation spread on social media platforms The concept of building a "market for trust" by prioritizing validated information over viral hits in the long run could create more value for social media platforms Key Quotes - "I feel like LinkedIn is really changing. When I first started using it, it was a straightforward network where people had small circles. Now it seems like there are ccircles within circles. Different content is shown to different people, even in different countries. There was this creative explosion initially, but now every week I hear people frustrated because their reach and impressions are down. It feels like we've fallen into the situation you're describing."  - Asher Mathew "There's some really interesting research and history regarding LinkedIn's efforts to make its feed less toxic. Back in the day, most social media platforms didn't even have a news feed. When LinkedIn started, it was more about who you were connected to rather than having a feed. They implemented a feed early on, but then they actually turned it off due to spikes in garbage content, spam, and other issues typical of user-generated content networks. After a hiatus, they restarted the feed, around 2017 if I remember correctly, in a read-only format. They also selected specific influencers who could post to the feed, aiming for global reach with a small number of chosen influencers in the early days." - Tobias Rose-Stockwell "I do think Wikipedia is a great example. People perceive it as very neutral, right? I've never heard anyone say, 'Wikipedia has a liberal bias' or something like that. It just comes across as neutral. I think it's hopeful that this neutrality can be embedded into social networks."  - Kelly Sarabyn

    52 min
  5. JUL 20

    Ep 28 | Evolving Partnership Models: Insights on Transforming Programs at Hyper Growth Scale

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Ritu Khanna, Vice President of Partnerships at Shopify. Under Ritu's leadership, Shopify has unified previously segmented partner functions, generating new synergies that drive the company's continued hypergrowth. With a proven track record in transforming traditional models to thrive amidst digital disruption, Ritu offers valuable insights into connecting ecosystems, embracing disruption, and guiding partners through an era of profound change. Tune in as we explore Ritu's firsthand perspectives on navigating partnership transformations in today's dynamic business landscape. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and product extensibility at Shopify.  06:24 - Partner types and their evolution in software companies.  10:53 - Partnerships and alignment in product development.  16:55 - Transforming Shopify's partner program to accommodate more complex market segments while still supporting SMB partners.  21:34 - Partnering with ISVs and ISPs to offer complementary products and services.  27:52 - Reselling and bundling software products on marketplaces.  33:13 - Leveraging partnerships for growth in the ecosystem.  40:55 - Partnering and leadership in a rapidly changing business landscape. Key Takeaways - Partnerships need to evolve over time to stay aligned with changing products and business needs. Regular communication and flexibility are important. Connecting different partner types (e.g. SMB and enterprise partners) and blurring boundaries can create synergies and new opportunities for growth. Leadership plays a key role in navigating major transformations while keeping partners motivated through recognition, highlighting progress, and embracing change. Co-selling and building complementary value propositions together is generally more effective than direct reselling of other companies' products. Marketplaces are enabling more bundled and efficient partner/ISV relationships through low transaction fees and discoverability compared to traditional channels. Key Quotes - "I think some of the biggest opportunities lie in connecting dots across the different areas that exist in the world of partnerships, whether that's across different partner types or the same partner types serving different segments. The goal is to create a fully functional and operationally efficient engine. While there may not be 100% overlap, there's certainly a Venn diagram of creativity worth exploring that will deliver strong results."  - Ritu Khanna "The efficiency would be if another company's sales rep sells your product instead of your own. That's what most revenue leaders aim for. However, integrating Shopify with another product for resale can be quite complicated, as we discussed."  - Asher Mathew "I think ours is more focused on what I would call mid-market and on-market versus enterprise. But it is interesting listening to what you're saying, because that is a huge transformation. You still have all your SMB customers, right? And you still have all your SMB partners. So, is your program incredibly complex now because it accommodates these different partners for different customers? I assume they're still key to the Shopify portfolio as well." - Kelly Sarabyn

    49 min
  6. JUL 12

    Ep 27 | Transforming Partnerships in a Digital World: Evolving Strategies, Aligning Teams and Staying Focused Through Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher and Kelly connect with Louise McEvoy, Vice President of US Channel Sales at Trend Micro. Louise shares her insights on building channel programs while balancing a demanding career with her passion for mountain climbing. The discussion covers topics such as obtaining executive buy-in for new models, modernizing competencies for channel leaders, and prioritizing tasks as a busy executive. The speakers explore adapting to changing market conditions, rethinking success metrics, and focusing on revenue growth, program development, and team support amid industry transformations. This conversation provides valuable perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing partnership executives in today's digital landscape.   Chapters -  00:00 - Balancing demanding career and non-career pursuits with a mountaineer. 06:20 - Transforming a channel through relationships and ecosystems. 10:06 - Unlearning traditional channel models and adopting new strategies for value creation. 15:55 - Transforming business models in the tech industry. 20:34 - Partner strategy, executive buy-in, and market shifts. 26:26 - Leveraging marketplaces for ISVs to resell products without embedding another ISV's product. 31:21 - Marketplaces, bundling, and corporate sponsorship. 38:06 - Modern partnership leadership competencies and evolution of roles. 46:40 - Prioritizing tasks and staying informed in a busy work environment. Key Takeaways -  In transforming business models, obtaining executive buy-in is crucial to mitigate disruptions across departments that may not align with the new direction. The evolution of partnership leadership roles now includes a broader spectrum of competencies, including influence, relationship building, and staying abreast of emerging market trends and tools. Effective strategies were discussed for achieving work-life balance by leveraging employer support, such as flexible time off and a culture of trust in employees. In modernizing channel models, speakers highlighted the effectiveness of combining traditional, transformational, and blue ocean strategies to adapt to evolving market conditions. Insightful techniques were shared for executives to prioritize tasks, focusing on areas such as revenue growth, program development, and team support. Key Quotes- “It's crucial to prioritize collaboration with finance teams and ensure they're well-informed. Finance teams can benefit from a deeper understanding of our business operations. Taking an operational approach and working closely with them to clarify processes is essential for seamless workflow. This clarity helps prevent future support challenges and enhances overall efficiency."  - Asher Mathew "Regarding ISVs, I see the value in integrating with their ecosystems. Take Trend Micro, for instance. We offer a unified platform with various modules and services. For customers using platforms that lack certain security aspects, our integrations with ISVs provide seamless extensions rather than requiring a complete overhaul. This approach avoids the complexity of enabling multiple products and ensures efficient integration that simply works." - Louise McEvoy

    51 min
  7. JUN 15

    Ep 26 | Leading Through Change

    On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, we discuss leadership with Rachel Skaff, Managing Director of North America Partner Sales at AWS. At AWS, she oversees the channel sales organization for North America, focused on accelerating growth through partners.  Joined by hosts Asher and Kelly, Rachel shares insights from her diverse career path and transforming AWS's partner model. The conversation explores challenges of work-life balance, especially for female executives, and offers advice for navigating careers amidst disruption. Emphasizing lifelong learning and adaptability, this episode provides valuable perspectives for partnership and sales professionals navigating organizational transformation. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and leadership with Amazon Web Services executive 05:31 - Parenting, leadership, and experience 10:52 - Work-life balance, leadership, and prioritizing people over processes 19:06 - Modern partnership leadership and sales strategies 25:12 - Leadership, decision-making, and adapting to change 32:55 - Leadership, reinvention, and presence in a rapidly changing environment 38:01 - Transforming organizations and leading sales initiatives 44:33 - Customer centricity and leadership principles for executives 51:07 - Partner roles and carrying quotas in business Key Takeaways -  Leaders need to continuously reinvent themselves and be open to change as industries evolve rapidly with new technologies. It's important to spend significant time externally with customers and partners to understand their needs and challenges. Balancing work and personal life, especially parenting, is very challenging but important to discuss openly. Carrying quotas or incentives in some form is important for partner roles to focus on generating business value. Surrounding oneself with diverse networks of peers and mentors is crucial for guidance in transforming organizations. Key Quotes -  "If you wake up every day and it's not a - Hell yeah!. Go find something else!” - Rachel Skaff

    55 min
  8. JUN 13

    Ep 25 | Driving Partnership Success from the C-Suite

    In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Mekaela Davis, Chief Partner Officer at Trintech.  With experience at both Big 4 consulting firms and enterprise software companies, Mekaela shares her unconventional journey to becoming a CPO. She discusses the diverse skills required and the importance of executive-level accountability. Mekaela also offers insights into building a partner-first culture, optimizing ISV partnerships, and translating qualitative partnership impacts into compelling narratives. Mekaela is also recognized within the VISTA Equity portfolio as a trailblazer in the CPO role, responsible for scaling partnerships across her organization. Chapters -  00:00 - Partnerships and alliances in scaling companies 04:40 - Career paths, including engineering, surgery, and partner operations 08:39 - Path to Chief Partnership Officer role 13:54 - Partnerships and integrations between tech companies 20:15 - Partner management challenges and solutions 26:52 - Partnerships, strategy, and becoming a Chief Partner Officer 31:00 - Partnerships, alliances, and 360-degree relationships in professional services 34:58 - Career progression and leadership role evolution 39:52 - Changes in role from SVP to CPO, including new responsibilities and expectations 44:37 - Leadership roles in partner programs, challenges faced by SVPs, and benefits of becoming a Chief Partner Officer 48:37 - Importance of CEO buy-in for partnership success 52:33 - Partner management and culture with a CEO and their team Key Takeaways -  Having a dedicated Chief Partner Officer (CPO) role is crucial for leading partnerships at an executive level and ensuring proper focus, allocation of resources, and accountability. To be effective in the role of CPO, one needs diverse experiences encompassing roles in accounting, marketing, business development, and other areas. It's essential to cultivate a partner-friendly culture within the organization, starting from the ground up with a strong commitment from the CEO and consistent reinforcement. In addition to quantitative metrics, it's important to convey qualitative narratives about partnerships to boards and stakeholders, highlighting their significance beyond just key performance indicators (KPIs). Optimizing partnerships between technology companies holds strategic importance in enhancing customer experiences and overall outcomes. Key Quotes- “Companies that get funded, say, here's a use case, and go sell it to one department, meaning one person. Then they go find other departments or other people in the same company and sell the same use case. So that's one way to build your business. The other way to build your business is you find a persona, and then you do everything for that person and make them look like a hero.” - Asher Mathew "Building a truly partner-first culture requires constant reinforcement from the top down. As CPO, I work closely with our CEO to ensure partners are part of every communication, from company-wide emails to press interviews. It's about repetition so that partner-focus becomes second nature for our entire organization." - Mekaela Davis "As someone who has worked at both startups and larger enterprises, I've seen it work both ways depending on the situation. At a young startup, focusing intensely on a niche persona is often the best strategy to quickly gain traction. But for a more established company, expanding into new use cases once the core product is established can also drive significant growth. It really comes down to understanding your unique market and customers at each stage of the business." - Kelly Sarabyn

    59 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
4 Ratings

About

Digital transformation has changed the way businesses buy. But the direct marketing and sales playbooks that are decades old are still in use. On Unlearn, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn talk to leaders who are unlearning old motions and innovating in how they Go-To-Market. We take a deep dive into community, partnerships and ecosystems, dark social, customer centricity, market incentives, and new tactics none of us have heard of yet but are already working.

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