Excess Returns

Excess Returns

Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more. Subscribe to learn along with us.

  1. 23小时前

    The Risks of the Rise of Passive Investing | Mike Green

    In this episode of Excess Returns, Mike Green returns to dissect the structural transformation underway in public markets due to the rise of passive investing. He explains why “there’s no such thing as a passive investor,” how inelastic flows distort prices, and what it means for valuation, volatility, and the long-term sustainability of equity markets. From the math behind market multipliers to the policy distortions driving mega-cap dominance, Mike walks through the macro, micro, and behavioral implications of passive flows — and what investors and policymakers need to do about it. 🔍 Topics Covered: Why passive investing isn’t truly passive The origins and impact of the inelastic market hypothesis How passive flows distort price discovery The shift from mean reversion to mean expansion in markets Multipliers and the mechanics of how flows drive prices Why market efficiency is breaking down at scale The hidden risks of passive-dominant market structure Target date funds and their unintended consequences The fragility of valuations under passive dominance The problem with IPO scarcity and capital misallocation Options strategies for convex tails and market drift Why the Fed and regulators may act — and what could trigger it Bitcoin and private markets as new flow-driven regimes How policy and tax advantages have reshaped capitalism ⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 – "There’s no such thing as a passive investor" 01:05 – The origins of Mike’s work on passive flows 03:00 – Bill Sharpe vs. Lasse Pedersen on passive flaws 06:00 – Index rebalancing and the illusion of passivity 07:00 – The rise of flow-based (demand-side) asset pricing 10:00 – Why EMH broke down under scale 12:00 – The human layer markets forgot 14:30 – The math behind price multipliers (5x to 25x) 17:00 – Market efficiency vs. market distortion 20:00 – Meta, index drift, and fake efficiency 23:00 – What individual investors should do 25:00 – The Mag 7 and extreme multiplier effects 27:00 – Options and convex tail risk management 29:00 – Mike’s 2016 survey on marginal buying behavior 31:00 – The shift from mean reversion to mean expansion 33:30 – When the music stops: wealth-to-income dynamics 35:00 – Theoretical crash under net withdrawals 36:00 – Why the boomer selloff thesis is flawed 39:00 – The overlooked risk: wealthy investors exiting actives 41:00 – Public vs. private equity concentration 43:00 – Why policy response is likely (and how it may look) 46:00 – Political power vs. market dominance 49:00 – Bitcoin, passive ETFs, and flow-driven pricing 52:00 – Private equity in 401(k)s — implications and risks 57:00 – The unintended outcomes of inflated valuations 59:00 – The hollowing out of the public equity bid 1:01:00 – How Vanguard’s 2015 rebalancing moved the market 1:04:00 – Valuation opacity and future withdrawals 1:07:00 – What Mike is working on now and next steps

    1 小时 23 分钟
  2. 4天前

    You’re Misreading the Rally | Liz Ann Sonders on What is Really Driving Market Returns

    📉 What the Market Is Getting Wrong | Liz Ann Sonders on Debt, Tariffs, and the Fed In this episode of Excess Returns, we welcome back Liz Ann Sonders, Chief Investment Strategist at Charles Schwab, for an in-depth conversation about what's really driving markets right now. Drawing on her latest research and commentary, we dig into retail trading dynamics, the implications of rising tariffs, the debt burden, inflation pressures, market concentration, and why the Fed might be holding the line. Liz Ann delivers clear, actionable insights—cutting through the noise and helping investors understand what matters most in today’s unstable environment. 📌 Topics Covered: Why high debt levels suppress long-term economic growth and productivity The retail trader “fingerprint” on recent market moves How sentiment extremes created a powerful reversal in April The rising risks around tariffs—and why markets may be complacent What companies are doing about margin pressure vs. passing on inflation The Fed’s “timeout” posture and why the market may be misreading it Liz Ann’s view on Powell’s potential ouster and Fed independence The disconnect between contribution to index returns vs. performance (Mag 7) Broadening market leadership and the role of quality stocks Why utilities and industrials are surprising AI beneficiaries How inflation is shifting from disinflationary to secularly higher The overlooked economic effects of immigration policy What the labor market is hiding beneath the headline numbers Why year-end price targets are a “dumb exercise” for individual investors ⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 – Opening clip: debt, growth, inflation & the Fed 01:00 – Welcome and introduction 02:00 – Retail trader impact on market rally since April 05:25 – Sentiment washout and pain trade dynamics 08:00 – Policy instability and tariff complacency 12:00 – What investors can do in the face of uncertainty 14:50 – Budget deficits, debt burden, and growth implications 18:00 – Inflationary risks embedded in the new spending bill 20:30 – Dissecting inflation: tariffs, goods vs. services, and inequality 23:45 – Inflation vs. margins: where the impact shows first 26:00 – Instability vs. uncertainty: the new investor reality 30:30 – Labor market risks and misleading employment metrics 35:00 – Immigration's hidden macroeconomic effects 38:00 – Fed independence, Powell’s job security, and mispriced rate expectations 42:00 – Why the Fed may not cut—and why that’s bullish 44:20 – Mag 7 myth: contribution vs. true performance 48:00 – Broadening the rally: high-quality vs. low-quality stocks 50:30 – AI's second-order effects and sector-level surprises 55:00 – Liz Ann’s contrarian take: why year-end targets are pointless

    57 分钟
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Excess Returns is dedicated to making you a better long-term investor and making complex investing topics understandable. Join Jack Forehand, Justin Carbonneau and Matt Zeigler as they sit down with some of the most interesting names in finance to discuss topics like macroeconomics, value investing, factor investing, and more. Subscribe to learn along with us.

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