54 episodes
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies Turpentine
-
- Business
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader.
hrheretics.substack.com
-
How Big Should Your Org Grow?
In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church welcome Michelle Delcambre, an operating partner at Felicis (and formerly of Stripe & Databricks), to discuss company growth trajectories, and strategic HR practices around talent, comp, and exits.
Michelle shares the development of Felicis’ ‘Benchmark Your Org' tool — which you can access here — it’s a free platform utilizing data from 15,000 companies, updated monthly, to help founders benchmark organizational growth. This conversation, which is one of Nolan's favorite episodes of the year, covers common founder mistakes and offers insights around pre-negotiated exit packages, comp strategies, company attrition, and so much more.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
LINKS:Benchmark Your Org: https://www.felicis.com/benchmark
LINKEDIN:Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelledelcambre/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(04:30) Actually useful benchmarks for founders(07:25) What metrics do people care about now?Boomerangs(09:30) Missing people data metrics(10:30) The talent vortex(15:35) Sponsors: WorkVivo | Attio(18:15) The anxiety of the “Regrettable attrition” metric and boomerang employees(23:07) Compensation challenges in startups(25:52) Tender offers and secondary markets(28:13) Innovative solutions for employee equity(38:41) Pre-negotiated severance and employee retention(43:56) Common mistakes founders make(49:36) Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com -
Toxic Managers
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dive into the devastating impact of toxic managers, featuring real stories of burnout, mental health struggles, and even suicide.
They delve into the misconduct of a Baidu executive who displayed horrific behavior towards her employees and the extreme pressures leading to suicides among investment bankers, highlighted by a tragic case at Bank of America.
From recognizing the signs of toxic management to building a strong support network, Kelli and Nolan offer actionable advice on navigating difficult workplaces and prioritizing your well-being.
*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
Related Articles:
* Top exec at Chinese search giant Baidu tells workers ‘I’m not your mom’ — then loses job
* Death of Former Green Beret (IB Associate at BofA)
—
KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
—
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro(00:37) Toxic Managers: Baidu Executive's Shocking Behavior(01:03) Toxic Managers: The Tragic Case of the iBanker(01:34) Kelli's Take on Toxic Management(04:26) Nolan's Perspective on Work-Life Balance(06:40) Sponsor Workvivo | Attio(09:19) The Impact of Fear-Based Leadership(11:15) Balancing Work Expectations and Employee Well-being(13:57) Encouragement and Community Support(16:17) An Element of EQ Is Necessary(19:19) Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com -
The Future of Tech Operators with Casey Woo, Founder of Operators Guild
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Casey Woo, a former public market investor turned 7x high-growth executive (including WeWork). He is now the founder of Operations Guild and General Partner at FOG Ventures. Casey shares eye-opening experiences from his time at WeWork and describes working with Adam Neumann, and the dynamics of rapid business scaling. They also highlight the impact of AI on business operations, the rise of the business operator, and discuss what skill-based ‘‘specialist generalists” do.
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Casey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywoo/
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
—
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(01:14) Casey's journey and WeWork experience
(08:39) Lessons from WeWork
(14:19) Current Climate and Operators Guild
(19:48) Sponsor: WorkVivo | Attio
(20:45) Current pace of AI development
(26:26) The Rise of the Operator
(35:03) Importance of generalists in business
(41:10) Building a Community: Lessons Learned
(44:42) Future of operators and founding businesses
(49:56) Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com -
The Big Stay
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli discuss an article from Business Insider about the ongoing white-collar recession, particularly affecting those earning over $100,000 a year.
They discuss significant changes in the tech job market, including the influence of AI, global competition, and the shift from managerial roles to more individual contributor positions. The episode concludes with insights into personal fulfillment versus financial stability in career choices.
Vanguard data reveals a hiring freeze for six-figure earners, impacting tech and finance. Is this the start of a white-collar recession?
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich
—
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction to the White Collar Recession
00:30 The Dichotomy of Employment Data
00:48 Challenges for High Earners
01:56 The Big Stay and Trapped in Place Economy
02:34 Industry-Specific Impacts
05:21 Global Competition and AI's Role
06:23 The Future of Tech Employment
08:34 Personal Reflections and Career Changes
08:43 Sponsor: Workvivo | Attio
11:12: First-World Work Problems
13:02: Self-Reflection and Assessment
15:34: On Gratitude on Salaries and Roles
16:11 Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com -
A Deep Dive Into Coaching as a Career with Nathan Tanner, author of The Unconquerable Leader
In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli sit down with Nathan Tanner, an executive coach, author of The Unconquerable Leader, and former HR leader at DoorDash, Neighbor, and LinkedIn. Nathan demystifies the black box of coaching as a career path for people leaders, getting into the nitty-gritty of setting up the business, getting clients, and the economics of coaching. They also discuss the fine line between the empathy required of an HR leader, an executive coach, and a therapist.
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
Share this with your friends, forward to your enemies. Hit subscribe now.
This episode is brought to you by AttioAttio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join Replicate, ElevenLabs, Modal and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH NATHAN, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN
Nathan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/
Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(00:58) Nathan’s journey into coaching
(02:53) Impact and philosophy of coaching
(05:25) Navigating the coach, HR leader, and client relationship
(13:08) What makes a great coach?
(15:52) Sponsor: Attio
(16:49) Assessing client’s perspectives
(21:49) Lifecycle of a coaching relationship
(24:29) Balancing revenue and client success
(26:03) Strategies and challenges of building a client base
(30:38) Economics of coaching
(35:33) Maximizing your coaching business
(39:34) Essential tools for success
(42:20) Value of transparency and resilience
(44:13) Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com -
What's the Deal at OpenAI?
Nolan Church breaks down what is happening over at OpenAI and what we know about three developing stories involving exec departures, equity, and transparency. Kelli is on vacation this week. He touches on:
* The departure of Ilya Sutskever, co-founder and chief scientist, along with Jan Lieke
* The journalistic investigation by Vox's Kelsey Piper, who broke the story of OpenAI's practice of requiring departing employees to sign life-long non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreements, threatening the loss of vested equity for breach
* The incident involving Scarlett Johansson being approached to voice OpenAI’s AI, without her consent, raising questions about ethical use of voice likeness in AI technologies
Nolan debriefs with lessons for HR leaders and company founders.
HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.
SPONSOR:
Attio is the next generation of CRM. It’s powerful, flexible, and easily configures to the unique way your startup runs, whatever your go-to-market motion. The next era deserves a better CRM. Join ElevenLabs, Replicate, Modal, and more at https://bit.ly/AttioHRHeretics
KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/
Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(00:47) The Big Departures: OpenAI's Executive Shake-Up
(03:31) OpenAI's Controversial NDAs
(05:12) Sponsors: Attio
(08:21) The Scarlett Johansson Voice Saga
(10:04) The Future of OpenAI and HR Lessons
(10:50) Wrap
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com