It Gets Late Early: Ageism in the Workplace

Maureen Wiley Clough
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Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

  1. AUG 19

    The 10% Rule: Why a Little More Vulnerability Can Change Everything With Will Greenblatt

    Why is it terrifying to present to just four people? According to Will Greenblatt, it's because our brains still think the tribe might "club us over the head" if they don't like what we say. Will's journey from Canadian child actor (yes, a self-proclaimed "nepo baby") to sought-after corporate speaking coach is anything but typical. After working with Anne Bancroft as a kid and nearly getting swept up in the Hollywood machine, a family tragedy and toxic theater school experience led him to completely reinvent himself. But here's what makes this episode essential listening: Will discovered that the same skills that make great actors also create breakthrough leaders. The difference? It's not about performing—it's about finding emotional truth and connecting authentically with your audience. The game-changing insight: When Will's clients embrace just 10% more vulnerability in meetings, they see measurable career improvements—better performance reviews, more influence, and stronger professional relationships. Because while everyone else is playing it safe, that small dose of authenticity makes you unforgettable. We dive deep into why mentorship is broken in today's workplace, how to spot genuine people in interviews, and Will's three-act framework for storytelling that builds instant trust. Plus, he shares the uncomfortable truth about why taking career risks, like leaving acting or corporate, might be the safest move you can make. “You give somebody the opportunity to destroy you, and you hope that they won't, and they might. But you can't love without that risk. And it's the same kind of thing when you tell your boss what you really think.”  ~ Will Greenblatt In This Episode: -The real difference between performing and authentic communication -Why our fear of public speaking is literally prehistoric  -The 10% vulnerability rule that transforms careers  -How to build trust through authentic storytelling  -Will's childhood-to-adult-choice framework for connection  -Why the "speaker-writer-coach-creator" career is the future  -How to network without being transactional  And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -Supercharge Your Speaking Skills by Will Greenblatt - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2esQpzqZUUYD8Nxp9lKe05K1aYMpsNwU Connect with Will Greenblatt: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willgreenblatt/ -Website: https://www.skool.com/speakingheroes/about Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    51 min

  2. AUG 5

    Fired and Diagnosed With Cancer: How Daniel Incandela Rebuilt His Life

    Losing a job is never easy, but what if it led to a more fulfilling path? Daniel Incandela, former CMO, opens up about the painful yet transformative experience of being fired in his 50s. In this episode, he shares the emotional toll it took, how he navigated the challenges, and the powerful lessons he learned along the way. Today, I sit down with my good friend, Daniel Incandela, who, like many of us, faced the harsh reality of burnout and being let go. His story is one of resilience and transformation. Despite the painful blow of being fired, Daniel reflects on how the experience helped him realign his priorities, focusing on family, health, and ultimately finding his path forward through consulting and creative work. We discuss the importance of reflection and accountability, even in the most challenging moments. Daniel’s journey sheds light on how career paths don’t always go as planned, and how the pressure to “do it all” can weigh heavily on us. From navigating ageism in a competitive job market to embracing AI as a necessary tool for today’s workforce, Daniel discusses how he’s finding purpose in his new role and working towards a future that aligns more with his values. If you’ve ever felt like your career took an unexpected turn, this episode is for you. Daniel’s story is a powerful reminder that we can find clarity even in moments of doubt. “I've been on this journey that I think I really needed in life, and it has helped me awaken from things I did not see.”  ~ Daniel Incandela In This Episode: -Daniel’s transition from CMO to consultant -Embracing change and realizing what really matters -Leadership in the time of AI -The reality of getting fired in your 50s -Experiencing the immense benefits of slowing down -Looking ahead: the future of work in a gig economy -Why learning how to use AI is no longer optional And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -The Gen X Career Meltdown - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/28/style/gen-x-creative-work.html Connect with Daniel Incandela: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielincandela/ -Substack:https://substack.com/@danielincandela -Newsletter by Daniel Incandela - https://danielincandela.substack.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.instagram.com/maureenwclough/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    40 min

  3. JUL 22

    What No One Tells You About Personal Branding at Work With Danielle Hughes

    Let’s face it, whether you're looking for a new job, trying to stand out in your current role, or considering a career pivot, building a personality brand is a real game-changer (you read that right. A personality brand, not a personal one). In today’s landscape, you need more than just experience; you need a personality that resonates. In this episode, Danielle Hughes, Chief Personality Officer at More Than Words Marketing, joins me to chat about why creating a personality brand isn’t just about ‘selling’ yourself. Danielle shares tips on how to confidently showcase your authentic self in your professional persona, particularly on platforms like LinkedIn. She emphasizes the importance of not just telling your story but showing it through real examples and personal achievements.  Whether you're pivoting careers or leveling up in your current role, branding is more important than ever. Tune in to hear how you can use your personality to stand out in the competitive job market and connect authentically with others. And just in case you're interested in working from beautiful homes all over the world, Danielle shares how she makes it happen. “Why is it a personality brand and not personal? Personal means private, so I never understand why we tell people to have a personal brand. Personality is who we are, and that's how we foster connection...with other people.”  ~ Danielle Hughes In This Episode: -Danielle's elevator pitch  -Why personality branding is crucial in today’s world -How to connect your career story with your brand -Developing your personality brand on LinkedIn -Advice for people contemplating a career shift or facing layoffs -The need for an optimized LinkedIn profile -How to differentiate yourself in an oversaturated job market -An interesting story about Danielle -Danielle's approach to helping clients craft their personality brand -Final thoughts on using personality branding to stand out And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide -Swap Homes and Unlock the World - https://www.homeexchange.com/ Connect with Danielle Hughes: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellehughes/ -Website: https://www.morethanwordscopy.com/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    39 min

  4. JUL 8

    The AI Industry Is Lying to You — And This Founder’s Calling It Out at Age 66

    Is AI living up to the hype, or is it just another overblown bubble that’s gonna pop? In this episode, Stephen Klein, a 66-year-old AI founder who is challenging the status quo in the world of artificial intelligence, joins me to expose what he believes is the truth about AI, from inflated promises to the real potential it holds for augmenting human intelligence. Trust me, this is what you won’t be hearing in the headlines about AI.  We jump into the much-hyped world of AI, and Stephen shares his no-holds-barred views on what’s happening (and why speaking out is making him enemies in Silicon Valley). We discuss how many companies are rushing to market with products that aren’t actually as groundbreaking as they claim, and how the industry itself often misleads us about AI’s capabilities for their own benefit, leading with scary headlines about how all of us are being laid off because of AI. Stephen doesn’t just talk about AI; he’s actively shaping its future. But he’s not just creating another automation tool. He’s building AI that truly augments human intelligence, and that’s where it gets interesting. Stephen’s company, Curiouser.AI, is different. It focuses on creating AI that enhances our creativity and critical thinking, things that the industry is currently sidelining in favor of quick fixes and efficiency. He challenges the corporate culture surrounding AI and explains how the industry needs to move away from pure automation and toward true collaboration between humans and machines. We also jump into the wild world of LinkedIn, where Stephen’s satirical posts challenge the hype surrounding AI and expose the industry’s biggest players.  If you’ve been confused about what this AI thing is all about or what to do, swept up in the AI frenzy or have doubts about where the industry is headed, this conversation will give you some powerful insights into what’s really going on behind the scenes that you’re unlikely to find in the typical media coverage. If you want to hear more from Stephen, check out his LinkedIn for more satirical insights and join the conversation on the future of AI! “I think that artificial intelligence is the single greatest innovation–invention–in the history of humanity, and I couldn't be more optimistic about where it's going.”  ~ Stephen Klein In This Episode: -An AI founder at 66 -Creating AI that augments human intelligence -The misconceptions around ageism in tech -The impact of curiosity-driven AI on human creativity -Why people should be careful when using AI -AI's role in the future of work  -How to deal with fear -The future of AI in business and ethics -The power of LinkedIn as a platform for your cause And much more! Resources: -Free Guide to LinkedIn Job Hunting for the 40+ Crew - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/job-guide Connect with Stephen Klein: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenbklein/ -Website: https://curiouser.ai/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: a href="https://www.itgetslateearly.com/" rel="noopener...

    1h 8m

  5. JUN 24

    Kelly Stonelake Tried to Protect Kids at Meta. They Fired Her Instead

    Have you ever felt trapped in a system that’s supposed to empower you but instead chips away at your well-being? In today’s episode, I’m sitting down with Kelly Stonelake, a former Meta executive who’s blowing the whistle on what’s happening behind the scenes at one of the world’s most powerful tech giants.  From battling toxic corporate culture to confronting racial issues in virtual spaces, Kelly’s story isn’t just about one woman standing up - it’s about exposing the systemic issues that hold women back in the corporate workplace and getting all of us to fight for a safer, more accountable tech industry. If you’ve ever felt the weight of corporate silence or been pushed to the brink in a system that’s more about profit than people, this conversation serves as an eye-opener. Kelly opens up about her time at Meta and the deeply toxic corporate culture she experienced, which led to her risking it all by taking on the company with a high-profile lawsuit. She reveals her fight to hold Meta accountable for the harm done, particularly to vulnerable users. As a former senior executive, Kelly sheds light on the urgent need for corporate accountability in an environment that prioritizes growth over people’s well-being, and how her treatment after speaking out about racial and cultural issues within Meta eventually led to her whistleblowing. If you're interested in the human side of big tech and how systems of power perpetuate harm, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear Kelly’s remarkable journey and discover how she’s taking a stand for change, even when it comes at great personal cost. Two small corrections from Kelly: "After listening back, two quick clarifications to my comments in the spirit of accuracy. I said it is illegal for companies to collect data on children. Clarification: it's illegal to collect data on children without parental consent. Also, I said I was 21 when I was first sexually assaulted by my boss, but I misspoke. I was 23 years old."   “It's a great privilege to be able to tell the truth.”  ~ Kelly Stonelake In This Episode: -The challenges of working with Horizon Worlds -The role of senior leadership in perpetuating corporate culture -The impact of being laid off, especially for neurodivergent individuals -Meta’s disregard for product safety and how that impacts children -Embracing the privilege of being able to tell the truth -Kelly’s reflections on DEI and corporate accountability -The emotional impact of being a whistleblower -Discrimination and ageism in the tech industry And much more! Resources: -Stonelake v. Meta - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kellystonelake_stonelake-v-meta-activity-7292542424248135681-wJi_/ -The Autistic Burnout Workbook by Dr. Megan Anna Neff - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1507223064 Connect with Kelly Stonelake: -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellystonelake/ -Substack: https://overturned.substack.com/ and https://substack.com/@kellystonelake Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: a...

    1h 14m

  6. JUN 10

    How to Fix Your Dumpster Fire Interview Process With Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates

    Let’s get real: hiring today is a mess. I’ve been there both as a candidate and as the interviewer who wasn’t properly trained. So, when I discovered Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates, two women who are revolutionizing the corporate interviewing landscape, I knew we had to have them on the show. In this episode, we dive into the shocking state of interviews today - from the mundane but outdated, biased questions that are still being asked to the absolute trainwreck moments that are happening at the table. Like a hiring manager who thought it was a good idea to ask a candidate to sell a dirty old shoe, sort of a creative take on that age-old sales question, “sell me this pen.” Yeah, you’ll want to hear this story. But it’s not all doom and gloom! Lorna and Victoria share how they transitioned from the corporate world into entrepreneurship, using their combined expertise to help businesses and hiring managers learn how to conduct effective interviews without inadvertently violating the law (yes, asking about holiday plans to try to figure out if a candidate is a parent is illegal). They’ve been able to show incredible results for their clients, underscoring how getting the interview process right brings a massive, lasting impact. They’ve been there, and they’re showing others how to do it right. Of course, we can’t talk about interviewing without touching on ageism, something that has been a problem for both older and younger candidates. We discuss how unconscious bias shows up in interviews and how companies need to adopt a broader perspective. Spoiler alert: it’s not just about hiring people you can grab beers with. And the best part? They share their golden rule of interviewing, and trust me, if companies started following it, it would completely shift the hiring process. It’s about respect, balance, and ensuring you’re bringing in the right person, not just the most convenient one. Listen to the episode and let’s make the hiring process better, together. The future of work depends on it! “If it would be weird if a candidate did it to you, don't do it to them.”  ~ Lorna Erickson (The Golden Rule of Interviewing) In This Episode: -Worst interview stories and candidate experiences   -Training hiring managers to interview better   -How Lorna and Victoria grew their online following -Unconscious bias and ageism during an interview -The golden rule for interviewers and the future of work -Fixing company culture, one hire at a time   And much more! Resources: -Expert Interviewers Training Services: https://expert-interviewers.mykajabi.com/training-services Connect with Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates: -Website: https://expertinterviewers.com/ -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/expertinterviewers/ -TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@expertinterviewers -Lorna Erickson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lornaerickson/ -Victoria Gates LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vpreston/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: a...

    49 min

  7. MAY 27

    Are We All Screwed? A Millennial and Gen Xer Weigh In With Bradley Richardson of Advanced Adulting

    I’m not gonna lie–this episode hit deep. Bradley Richardson and I recorded this one for both our audiences, and it turned into the realest talk I’ve had in a while. We peeled back the polish and got straight into the messy middle of work, life, and what we all do to survive this stage of midlife. If you've ever been laid off, cut off by your work “family,” or fed up with the BS around personal branding, you’re in good company. Bradley and I unpack what really happens behind hiring decisions (spoiler: hard work doesn’t always pay off), how social media is frying our nervous systems, and why entrepreneurship isn't all beach retreats and flowy bathrobes. We also get vulnerable about adult friendships – the kind that fade, the ones that surprise you, and the painful truth that growth sometimes means outgrowing people. Bradley shares a brutally honest moment with his son that I won’t forget, and I talk about finally taking off the mask after decades of trying to do things “right.” So if you’re feeling behind, off-track, or just bone-tired of pretending you’ve got it all figured out, this one's for you. Come hang with us, and let’s say the quiet part out loud. Listen now, and send that text to a friend you miss. If this episode resonates, send it to them too! “I think the greatest cure for loneliness for people in midlife is actually getting out of your comfort zone, as uncomfortable as it is, and making that first move.”  ~ Bradley Richardson In This Episode: -Why job loyalty is a myth and what really happens behind closed doors -How ageism shows up in hiring and the subtle ways older workers get sidelined -What the future of work actually looks like -Why adult friendships are so hard (and so vital) -How to stop living by someone else’s rulebook And much more! Resources: -The Great Man's Lady - a 1941 film starring Barbara Stanwyck. It tells the story of the 100-year-old Hannah recalling her past, allowing for a reflection on the aging process and the accumulation of memories and experiences. Connect with Bradley Richardson: -Website: https://www.imbradleyrichardson.com/ -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/imbradleyrichardson/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1 -Facebook: a href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100088694515585"...

    1h 52m

  8. MAY 13

    Did You Know You Could Have a 'Second Fifty' Years? Dr. Debra Whitman Explains!

    What has more to do with longevity: your zip code or your genetic code? The answer might just surprise you.  In this episode, I’m thrilled to have Dr. Debra Whitman, Chief Public Policy Officer at AARP and author of “The Second Fifty: Answers to the 7 Big Questions of Midlife and Beyond” join me to discuss the changing narrative of aging.  Deb’s journey into this field began at a young age; growing up living with her grandmother, who had schizophrenia, shaped her deep passion for improving the lives of older adults. Her book, “The Second Fifty,” is a profound exploration of the reality of aging in America, highlighting the disparities in life expectancy, healthcare, and the retirement crisis many face, while also offering actionable steps for improving how we live, work, and age.  From the big questions in our second half of life to the importance of intergenerational teams, this conversation will change the way you think about aging and help you embrace it with purpose and intention. This episode is a call to action to adopt a more positive view of aging and to build systems that support healthy, vibrant aging for everyone - not just a select few. Instead of dreading birthdays, why not embrace them with gratitude and start planning your next big adventure? Who knows - your second 50 might just be your best 50! Listen now to hear Deb’s inspiring insights, learn about AARP’s important work on behalf of older adults, and hear how we can shift the mentality around aging in our society. “If you think more positively about your future, then that's the best health behavior you can have.”  ~ Dr. Debra Whitman In This Episode: -The need for authenticity in aging and why it’s time to embrace The Second 50 -How positive aging and mindset shifts can add years to your life -Why multigenerational teams are essential for business success -How older workers are critical for driving economic growth and innovation And much more! Resources: -The Second 50 by Dr. Debra Whitman: https://www.aarp.org/entertainment/books/bookstore/money-work-retirement/info-2023/the-second-fifty.html Connect with Dr. Debra Whitman: -Website: https://www.aarp.org/ -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-whitman/ Connect with Maureen Clough: -LinkedIn: maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/ -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/ -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/ -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a...

    44 min
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About

Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

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