Positioning with April Dunford April Dunford

In today’s episode, I talk with a technology entrepreneur about lessons related to his product initially being mispositioned in the market and also the challenges of positioning both free and paid versions of software solutions. 
Joining me is Abhinav Asthana, founder and CEO of Postman, an API platform for software developers to build and use APIs.
In today’s episode: 
* How Postman's positioning evolved from a product-focused approach to a platform-focused approach, with different positioning for end-users and executives.
* Building Postman with the conviction that modern software is built on APIs, and evangelizing (positioning) this idea to investors.
* Why top-down positioning needs to align with company strategy. 
* The value of working with analysts to understand customer needs and improve products.
* Positioning software in terms of satisfying customer needs.
* The importance of staying ahead of competitors in the enterprise software market.
* The challenges of competing with free products and prioritizing user experience.
* Abhinav advises talking to 50-100 customers per year to gain insights and build conviction in product decisions.
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If you want to skip ahead: 
(2:24) Origin story of Postman. 
(7:19) Postman's growth, fundraising, and positioning challenges. 
(12:57) API platform growth and top-down sales strategies. 
(18:03) Taking an API-first approach in software development and marketing strategies. 
(28:19) Scaling velocity, competitors, and customer engagement in the enterprise software space. 
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Connect with Abhinav Asthana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhinavasthana/ 
Learn about Postman’s API platform: https://www.postman.com/ 

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Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: 
Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact 
April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ 
April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 
April’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 
April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford 
April’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@positioningshow

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Mentioned in this episode: 
“Breaking Changes,” a podcast where Postman Chief Evangelist Kin Lane and guests talk about the API universe: https://www.postman.com/events/breaking-changes/
“The API-First Transformation,” a book by Kin Lane with a foreword by Abhinav Asthana: https://amzn.to/3PZzEOy 

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Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: 
“Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”
“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”
Amazon US: a...

Welcome to Season 2! In today’s episode, I explore why positioning fails to make the jump from marketing to sales in many companies, and what common misconceptions and mistakes in positioning work should be avoided.
You will learn: 
* Why sales teams often lack a deep understanding of positioning and its importance in the sales process.
* Communicating value and positioning product consistently across all sales calls, even for new sales reps.
* What happens when marketing creates positioning without consulting sales, leading to disconnect between the two teams.
* The disconnect between sales teams and marketing teams, as marketing decks often don't account for the need for discovery and objection handling during sales calls.
* Two common unspoken objections in sales pitches: pricing and change management.
* Common challenges in transitioning positioning from marketing to sales, including inadequate decks. 
* In enterprise and B2B deals, multiple stakeholders involved in a deal can lead to multiple pitch decks, making the process more complicated.
* Customizing pitch decks for the champion, with a focus on resonating with their needs and concerns, rather than trying to address the objections of other stakeholders in the deal.
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If you want to skip ahead: 
(0:01) Positioning in B2B marketing and sales. 
(4:25) Sales strategy and customer understanding. 
(8:55) Why marketing and sales positioning often doesn't align. 
(13:18) Sales pitches and unspoken objections. 
(18:00) B2B purchase process and positioning for sales. 
(23:24) Customizing sales pitch decks for different personas. 
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Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: 
Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact 
April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ 
April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 
April’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 
April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford 
April’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@positioningshow
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Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: 
“Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It”
“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win”
Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY 
Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt 
Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ
Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSz
Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=%22April%20Dunford%22&c=books 
Barnes & Noble: a href="https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/%22April%20Dunford%22" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

Today, I’m going to discuss how to have consistent positioning and messaging across sales and marketing using tactics from my book Sales Pitch. You will learn: 


Why marketers at B2B companies should start with the sales pitch first
An overview of buyer’s guides and the components of the best ones
How to create an explainer video using the sales pitch structure
Why all content should target the proper persona 
Examples of graphics used to educate buyers 
Other types of content that can be structured around the sales pitch 



You'll also hear that this is the final episode of Season 1, as I'm excited to take a break from podcasting for the rest of the year. Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast, and I look forward to recording more content next year!



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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:21) An overview of my consulting work and season 1 finale

(01:11) Why marketing should center their storytelling on what works for sales

(05:30) How and why to use a buyer’s guide with customers 

(09:13) How to incorporate the Sales Pitch structure into explainer videos 

(10:20) Other places pieces of the sales narrative may work well

(11:07) The significance of different personas  

(12:10) Leveraging the sales narrative set up phase for conference talks

(13:30) How graphics can enhance understanding of differentiated value 

(14:09) The graphics Postman created to illustrate its features and capabilities 

(16:20) Gitlab’s infinity graphic

(17:16) Salesforce’s confusing infographic 

(19:30) Other ways to use my Sales Pitch structure

(21:13) Closing thoughts



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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: ⁠https://www.positioning.show/⁠ 

Personal Website: ⁠https://www.aprildunford.com/⁠ 

LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/⁠ 

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/⁠ 

Twitter: ⁠https://twitter.com/aprildunford⁠



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Referenced:

Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021⁠

Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/⁠

What is Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/product/what-is-postman/⁠

The API platform landscape: ⁠https://blog.postman.com/2022-api-platform-landscape-trends-and-challenges/⁠

Gitlab Infinity: ⁠https://gitlab.com/infinity7x⁠

Salesforce Customer 360: ⁠https://www.salesforce.com/ap/blog/what-is-salesforce-customer-360/⁠

Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Obviously-Awesome-Product-Positioning-Customers/dp/1999023005⁠



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Production and marketing by ⁠https://penname.co/

It's frustrating to see the widespread misuse of business terminology in the corporate world. Terms such as strategy, positioning, and vision are frequently interchanged or confused. Today, I'll clarify these terms, discussing when and how to use them. I’ll share with you:


The difference between strategy, vision, and positioning 
Pitching to investors vs. pitching to potential customers
The importance of adapting positioning
An explanation of Geoffrey Moore’s “bowling pin” strategy
Examples of implementing the “bowling pin” strategy earlier in my career
Why you don’t need a story for your strategy
The importance of having a shared vocabulary within your organization

Thanks for listening! 



If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:17) How the book tour is going

(01:02) A brief overview of vision, strategy, and positioning 

(04:02) The difference between pitching to investors and potential customers 

(06:30) How positioning evolves as your strategy progresses

(07:18) How to use the “bowling pin” strategy 

(08:21) “Bowling pin” strategy examples from Janna Systems and Tulip Retail

(13:51) Common pitfalls people make in discussing strategy

(17:24) The importance of clarifying terminology with your team members

(18:55) Closing thoughts



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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

Good Strategy Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986



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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Every business wants to cash in on the latest trend, and for good reason. Trends can be powerful tools to enhance your positioning. However, it's crucial to recognize that not all trends are a universal fit for every company. Blindly adopting trends without thoughtful messaging can lead to disastrous outcomes for your business.

Today, I’m diving deep into the world of trends. You’ll learn the following:


The difference between markets and trends
How trends can be layered on top of your differentiated value
Why it’s a risky move to chase trends that aren't relevant to your business
Real-world examples of companies incorporating trends, both successfully and poorly
An overview of AI technology and how to address it in your business 

Thanks for listening! 

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:27) Information about Sales Pitch and a reader’s review

(01:19) The difference between markets and trends

(04:34) How and when to layer trends on top of your differentiated value

(06:36) The three circle mental model of product, market, and trend 

(07:38) How Redgate Software took advantage of the DevOps trend

(09:50) Trends don’t always align with your product (and why you shouldn’t force them to)

(13:41) Long Island Blockchain: an example of a company latching onto an unrelated trend

(16:39) An overview of AI technology 

(18:28) The right way to address AI if it is relevant to your business and customers

(19:42) Announcements 



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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford



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Referenced:

Pantone: https://www.pantone.com/

Redgate Software: https://www.red-gate.com/

Long Island Iced Tea Soars After Changing Its Name to Long Blockchain: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/crypto-craze-sees-long-island-iced-tea-rename-as-long-blockchain



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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Today, I will talk about how to address your competition, which is commonly mismanaged. Once again, you’ll see it all comes back to positioning and differentiated value. I’ll share with you:


Why it’s almost always a bad idea to name the competition when you’re the market leader
Real-life examples of companies naming their competitors
The benefit you gain from naming and positioning your competitors when you’re small
How to combat lies and negativity from your competitors

Thanks for listening!

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:21) How my book launch went

(01:47) Addressing competition by putting them into buckets

(03:43) Why market leaders should never mention the competition

(05:03) Slack’s letter to Microsoft that named them as a competitor

(09:16) DocuSign's ad mentioning Dropbox

(10:36) Why you might build a custom landing page based on a search query

(11:24) The benefit of naming the competition if you’re small

(13:08) Positioning your competitors

(16:57) Combating negative positioning from competitors

(21:41) Closing thoughts



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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford



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Referenced:

Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021

Slack’s “Dear, Microsoft” letter: https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft



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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/