The Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast Anabaptist World and The Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition

Sarah and guest “answerers” Mark Charles and Phil Fox continue the conversation from the last episode. Questions include:


Settlers are often told to seek relationship with local Native people. But what if Native folks don’t seem to want this? What does it really mean to build right relationship with Native people?
I have grown up and lived most of my life with an understanding of human progress, that each successive generation lived better than the generation prior. Our medical treatments improve; our scientific knowledge advances; our technology gets better and better. For a variety of reasons, I am now questioning this view. Please comment on the idea of human progress. In particular, please share your thoughts on the idea of human progress in the area of morality. Dr. King famously said “The arc of the moral universe is long, but leans towards justice.“ But as I learn more about Indigenous societies, I am no longer confident that our modern society is more just than certain societies many centuries ago.
Mark also returns to the first question asked in our last podcast episode: How can you practice Christianity and your own Indigenous spirituality at the same time? Can you be true to yourself and your Indigenous identity and be a Christian at the same time?


Please consider signing the "I Support the Sacred" petition to show your support for Apache Stronghold's legal case to protect Oak Flat. Resolution Copper, a subsidiary of British and Australian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP, proposes to completely destroy this sacred site and contaminate the surrounding land, water and air. Preserving the religious liberty of Apache peoples is essential to preserving our own. We must all join together to protect sacred land from the forces of destruction.


Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here. We are also publishing a Substack with the same title based on the theme found in our book — ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and where we find hope for our future. We’re excited about this Substack because it’s a more personal, unfiltered space in which we can share our thoughts and writings. Please contact Sheri at sheri@dismantlediscovery.org if you can’t afford the price and would like a complimentary subscription.


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook.

In this recurring episode, Sarah answers questions from listeners. This time, she is joined by Native friends Mark Charles and Phil Fox. Questions include:
How can you practice Christianity and your own Indigenous spirituality at the same time? Can you be true to yourself and your Indigenous identity and be a Christian at the same time?
The Bible is pretty clear that men shouldn’t have long hair. What do you think about having long hair? (This was actually a topic at the church in which Sarah grew up.)
As a member of a church that is trying to be more than superficial about acknowledging that we occupy land that was illegitimately taken from natives, how can we respond in an honest way?


We want your questions, especially those you might feel too embarrassed to ask “out loud.” Please submit any questions to Sheri at sheri@dismantlediscovery.org. You can even do so anonymously, if you wish.


Please consider signing the "I Support the Sacred" petition to show your support for Apache Stronghold's legal case to protect Oak Flat. Resolution Copper, a subsidiary of British and Australian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP, proposes to completely destroy this sacred site and contaminate the surrounding land, water and air. Preserving the religious liberty of Apache peoples is essential to preserving our own. We must all join together to protect sacred land from the forces of destruction.


Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here. We are also publishing a Substack with the same title based on the theme found in our book — ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and where we find hope for our future. We’re excited about this Substack because it’s a more personal, unfiltered space in which we can share our thoughts and writings. Please contact Sheri at sheri@dismantlediscovery.org if you can’t afford the price and would like a complimentary subscription.


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook.

In this episode, we talk to Patrick Bell, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Eastern Oregon. His Diocese, which is a member of the Coalition’s Repair Network, has gone above and beyond in repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery. They started, first, with land rematriartion and then later came up with a repudiation statement. Patrick talks about how this “action-first” repudiation happened, what motivates him in this work, and why guilt isn’t an effective motivator for white people. Patrick was also willing to share vulnerably about being the father of Indigenous children in this interview – which opened up a space for all three of us to share intimately. In the end, we know only by changing systems of oppression may we create the conditions for all children to thrive.


The lament used at the Episcopal Diocese’s meeting can be found here.


Please consider signing the "I Support the Sacred" petition to show your support for Apache Stronghold's legal case to protect Oak Flat. Resolution Copper, a subsidiary of British and Australian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP, proposes to completely destroy this sacred site and contaminate the surrounding land, water and air. Preserving the religious liberty of Apache peoples is essential to preserving our own. We must all join together to protect sacred land from the forces of destruction.


Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here. We are also publishing a Substack with the same title based on the theme found in our book — ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and where we find hope for our future. We’re excited about this Substack because it’s a more personal, unfiltered space in which we can share our thoughts and writings.


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook.

In this episode, we talk to Basil Brave Heart and Hilary Giovale. This was an amazing conversation about forgiveness – forgiving our oppressors, how true healing and repair happen given the reality of historical harms, how white settlers need to forgive themselves as part of the work of reparation. Basil also shares deeply from his tradition in ways that Sarah and Sheri found very moving.


Basil Brave Heart is an Oglala Lakota Elder who lives in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. He is a Catholic boarding school survivor, retired school administrator, addiction counselor, and Korean War combat veteran who served as a paratrooper in the 1950s. As a young child in the 1930s, Basil’s Grandma Lucy told him about the 1890 Wounded Knee massacre. She counseled him to forgive the soldiers who perpetrated the massacre. A dream of his Grandma later guided Basil to change the name of a peak in the Black Hills. In 2016, it was renamed “Black Elk Peak” at the federal level. Basil studies how quantum physics corroborates the wisdom woven throughout the Lakota language and other Indigenous languages. Over the last decade, he has been facilitating truth, healing, and forgiveness across historical divides.


Hilary Giovale is a mother, writer, and community organizer who lives in Flagstaff, Arizona. A ninth-generation American settler, she is descended from Celtic, Germanic, Nordic, and Indigenous peoples of Ancient Europe. An active reparationist, her work is guided by intuition, love, and relationships. Hilary seeks to follow Indigenous and Black leadership in support of human rights, environmental justice, and equitable futures. She is the author of Becoming a Good Relative: Calling White Settlers Toward Truth, Healing, and Repair (Green Writers Press, April 2024). Since 2019, Basil and Hilary have been collaborating on healing work, focused on repairing the harm that has been wrought by the Doctrine of Discovery.


You can read more about their relationship in this two-part interview. Learn more about Hilary’s work at goodrelative.com.


Please consider signing the "I Support the Sacred" petition to show your support for Apache Stronghold's legal case to protect Oak Flat. Resolution Copper, a subsidiary of British and Australian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP, proposes to completely destroy this sacred site and contaminate the surrounding land, water and air. Preserving the religious liberty of Apache peoples is essential to preserving our own. We must all join together to protect sacred land from the forces of destruction.


Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about _So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis _here. We are also publishing a Substack with the same title based on the theme found in our book — ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and where we find hope for our future. We’re excited about this Substack because it’s a more personal, unfiltered space in which we can share our thoughts and writings.


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook.

In this episode, we talk with Kaitlin Curtice, author, poet, storyteller, public speaker and an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi nation. Her most recent book is Living Resistance: An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day. She also authored the 2020 award-winning book Native: Identity, Belonging and Rediscovering God. Katilin also has a children’s book coming out this fall called Winter’s _Gifts: An Indigenous Celebration of Nature _– just in time for the holidays!


Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here.


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

In this episode, Sarah and Sheri reflect on the Richard Heinberg interview as it relates to the message of their new book So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis. We discuss why we are hopeful despite the polycrisis described in both our new book and in the interview with Richard. We also talk about why conspiracy theories like QAnon are onto something true and why it is important to be in kinship and solidarity with the working-class and poor people who believe these theories.


Note: At the beginning of this episode, we refer to a segment of the interview with Richard that wasn’t included in the previous episode. It’s a segment where he talks about the work of complexity scientist Peter Turchin. If you want to listen to that 7-minute segment – shameless plug alert! – you can do so by subscribing to Sarah’s and my new Substack, where you will get a quite personal weekly reflection on ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and hope for our future. We’ll begin posting Nov. 30.


We refer to this podcast episode, “Insects – A Silent Extinction” on Nate Hagens’ “The Great Simplification.”


You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)