The Fundamental Molecule

Burnt Island Ventures

Welcome to The Fundamental Molecule. This show explores the intersection of water, technology and entrepreneurship. Each week, Tom Ferguson, Managing Partner of Burnt Island Ventures, interviews innovators, experts, entrepreneurs and investors in the world of water, to help us understand where this trillion dollar industry is headed. These are the stories of the people building the future of the world’s most valuable and fundamental resource. Explore all of our episodes and learn more at https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule

  1. 13h ago

    Mike Ting - Building a World-Class Physical Product

    I am a big fan of Cala Systems. They've set a completely new standard for the heat pump water heater and water heaters in general. What was initially an afterthought from large manufacturers - essentially a marketing ploy that really didn't make much of a difference to overall water heater performance - Cala is a step-change in its $14 billion annually non-discretionary market. When you need a water heater, you need it regardless of what's going on in the economy. We talked to Co-founder and CEO Michael Rigney in Episode 24. It's great - check it out - but we wanted to do a TMF first and have a product lead on. Mike Ting is the Co-founder and CTO of Cala and has overseen the creation of a world-class product, up to and including setting up an entire factory twice. He's a super guy, and this is an insight-laden masterclass in building and scaling a product. Please enjoy my product-first conversation with Mike Ting. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Mike Ting is the Co-founder and CTO of Cala, where he builds intelligent heat pump water heaters that act as grid-interactive thermal batteries. Before Cala, Mike spent ten years developing consumer hardware at Bose and SharkNinja. He worked in the headphone group at Bose and led product teams at SharkNinja, shipping high-volume electronics globally. Today he scales hardware from proof-of-concept to mass production at Cala’s Wilmington, MA factory. Mike earned a mechanical engineering degree from McGill University and is a dual U.S.-Canadian citizen. 00:00 - Introduction 02:01 - What Actually Makes a Good Product 07:10 - Building the World's First Intelligent Water Heater 16:24 - Scaling From Prototype to Manufacturing 26:30 - Blending Hardware, Software, and Customer Experience 33:59 - Why Installers Are the Real Customer 39:27 - The Future of Smart Water Heating 45:05 - Startup Lessons on Building Products That Last Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Mike Ting Cala Systems SM Material Key Takeaways: “The biggest thing for me has always been delivering real value to the customers.” “The best products that you can use are the ones that you don't have to think about.” “At Bose, we used to talk about building products that nobody could have ever thought about before, but once they use them, they could never think about living without them.” “Never assume that you, as the product designers, the engineers, marketers, whatever, know better than what the consumers do.” “If you build something that's way too futuristic, it's a product people already aren't thinking about, it's generally going to scare them away.” “There just aren't contract manufacturers who know how to build water heaters.” “You have to be really resilient and really scrappy. Accept the circumstances and say, ‘Okay, here are the problems I'm going to go solve today.’”

    Mike Ting - Building a World-Class Physical Product
  2. Aug 5

    Jinal Surti - Bringing Visibility to Global Supply Chains

    The world’s biggest supply chains - cocoa, coffee, palm, soy, timber, beef, rubber - all begin in the same place: a farm, often a smallholder, almost always invisible to the companies that depend on it. That first mile is where deforestation happens, where emissions accrue, and where water stress bites hardest. Until recently, nobody could give large companies the ability to understand what was and could be going on at the foundations of their supply chains. Jinal Surti is changing that. After building his career at the forefront of crypto with Egnyte, Ripple, and Menai, Jinal co-founded Epoch in London in 2023 to generate location-linked intelligence - deforestation status, emissions, water stress, and of course, biodiversity risk - compliance for every farm, plantation, and processing facility feeding global commodity supply chains. It’s been such a thrill to work with him on a project of this magnitude, and as you will hear, he thinks as clearly about company creation, value defensibility, and the practical implications and opportunities of AI as anyone I have ever met. Please enjoy my conversation with Jinal Surti. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Jinal Surti is the co-founder and CEO of Epoch, an environmental monitoring, reporting, and insetting platform for the agriculture and forestry sectors. Global commodity producers use Epoch to manage nearly 3 million farms and plantations worldwide. Before starting the company, Jinal spent his career enabling global payments in emerging markets as an early employee at Ripple and a founding executive at Menai. Jinal holds an engineering degree from the University of Waterloo and an MBA from Harvard Business School. 00:00 - Introduction 02:27 - Why Supply Chain Visibility Is Critical 09:55 - How AI Replaces Traditional Supply Chain Audits 16:57 - Why Water Risk Is Reshaping Global Business 20:26 - How Geospatial AI Maps Supply Chain Risk 24:54 - Building a Defensible AI Business 31:54 - How AI Is Transforming Startup Growth 38:50 - Crypto's Real-World Future Beyond Hype 40:49 - First Principles for Building Great Companies Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Jinal Surti Epoch Key Takeaways: "Cleaning up corporate supply chains is the biggest driver that we have not just for climate, but for human rights, for biodiversity, for water, for income inequality." "Just because a product is certified by some certification body doesn’t really evidence any difference... certifications just can’t be enough. You have to show the data." "Self-reported questionnaires are, by the way, also a huge pain point." "What really wins is context. The more customers you serve, the more context you have, and the more context you can use to utilize those models and make your product better." "You almost want people who can delegate the best and manage the best, because that’s what prompting really is, rather than somebody who’s really, really good at doing one thing."

    Jinal Surti - Bringing Visibility to Global Supply Chains
  3. Jul 22

    Blake Anderson - Transforming the World of the Small Utility Operator

    Water systems don't exist in a vacuum. Systems are human endeavors run by operators, and the great majority of America's roughly 90,000 water systems with under 1,000 connections are really small ones run by crews of one, maybe two or three people. Blake Anderson knows that world better than almost anyone. A certified operator who has spent 14 years running water systems, Blake is the founder of Mogollon Water Management, which operates and maintains community water systems across the White Mountains of Northern Arizona. He now also lends that operator's eye to Ziptility, the asset management platform built for small utilities that acquired his platform last year. I loved this conversation. It is a trip into the weeds of what it takes to run a small system and, crucially, how it can be better. He knows what it is like to be responsible for a system and the lives that depend on it, from operating a backhoe to fix a leak in the middle of the night all the way to explaining budget trade-offs to an untrained community system board. This is a view of the heart of our industry we don't get often enough, and Blake is the perfect person to bring the operating practicality to Ziptility's platform that will be transformational to the vast majority of America's water systems. Please enjoy my conversation with the excellent Blake Anderson. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Blake Anderson is Ziptility’s VP of Strategic Operations and Founder of Mogollon Water Management (MWM). A Grade 4 operator with 14 years of experience, Blake professionalizes rural water systems. He built MWM into Northeastern Arizona’s largest O&M provider by rescuing micro-systems and securing capital. Since Ziptility acquired MWM in 2025, he has focused on scaling a nationwide model that pairs local crews with field-first utility software. 00:00 - Introduction 02:32 - What Water System Operators Actually Do 07:07 - How Modern Tech Is Transforming Small Utilities 10:06 - Building a Water Utility Management Business 18:23 - Designing Better Software for Water Operators 22:49 - How to Fix America's Small Water Systems 32:47 - Why Ziptility Acquired Mogollon Water Management 37:14 - Creating the Future Operating System for Utilities 39:13 - Solving the Water Industry's Workforce Crisis 41:28 - Policy Changes That Could Save Small Utilities 44:25 - Customer-First Advice for Water Entrepreneurs Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Blake Anderson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blake-a-0553702b6/ Mogollon Water Management: https://mogollonwater.com/ Ziptility: https://www.Ziptility.com/ Key Takeaways: "A good operator can walk into a room and tell if a pump's been running too long just by the temperature and the smell of the bearings." "Software needs to be driven by your thumbs in a trench with a shovel right next to you. If they won't use it in the field, it doesn't do anything." "If you are crazy about your customer and you really love their problems, you're going to be successful. Seek the welfare of the communities you serve."

    Blake Anderson - Transforming the World of the Small Utility Operator
  4. Jul 8

    Greg Floyd - Serving a Market Bigger than Android & iOS Combined

    Everybody remembers their first. When I was with Imagine H2O, I had the great fortune to meet Greg Floyd, who needed a small check for an early prototype of their shower head, which was crucially different from the litany of shower heads that were coming out at the time. They were all neon and internal drives and control panels and all this crap that totally overlooked that when people are having a shower, they want one thing and one thing only: plentiful, usually hot water to help them get clean and feel relaxed. Do not introduce complexity or unreliability into this equation. Greg and his team really got it. And as importantly, had identified a gigantic market where the value prop of their shower, and I am leaving the explanation of that to him, really hits. Showers are a giant pain in the ass for hotels, and Shower Stream essentially deletes the source of a whole lot of trouble. There are now 400+ live devices across five hotel chains, 150,000 showers taken with zero complaints, paybacks measured in weeks. It's an unusual story in an overlooked market - the kind I love. And as you will hear, Greg has built deliberately into a fascinating position. Please enjoy my conversation with Greg Floyd. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Greg Floyd is the Co-founder and CEO of Shower Stream, an Austin-based startup transforming water and energy efficiency for hotels. Using IoT-enabled smart shower technology, Greg helps properties reduce resource consumption by 20% while maintaining guest satisfaction. With a B.S. in Computer Science from UT Austin, Greg brings a strong technical background from his decade-long career as a software engineer at Silicon Labs and AMD. An expert in embedded systems, he has successfully led Shower Stream through elite accelerators like Imagine H2O to scale sustainable property technology. 00:00 - Introduction 02:59 - The Hidden Costs of Hotel Shower Misuse 09:55 - Building a Smart Shower Guests Never Notice 15:24 - Proving Water Savings with Real-Time Data 21:49 - Creating a Hardware-as-a-Service Business Model 30:05 - Winning Enterprise Customers as a Startup 34:11 - Reaching Product-Market Fit with a Lean Team 40:25 - Why Passion Drives Startup Success Links: Greg Floyd Shower Stream SM Material Key Takeaways: "The first layer of reliability here is designing the thing to be non-intrusive. It's not a nanny telling you to turn off the water when you're done using it." "We give the hardware to the hotel owners for free. . . and then we're going to charge you $10 per month per room. . . we typically come in at $25, $26 of savings per room per month." "We can divert over a gigaton of CO2 emissions. Again, because there's a heating component here and then all of the energy that goes on the back end of water." "In hardware startups, it takes seven years to become an overnight success."

    Greg Floyd - Serving a Market Bigger than Android & iOS Combined
  5. May 13

    Alaina Harkness - Falling in Love with the Problem

    Building any organization is hard. Building a nonprofit, community place-based organization in an industry you are new to, and then doing it so well that the government gives you well into nine figures to lead a regional economic engine over the next 10 years, is really hard. But Alaina Harkness is genuinely that impressive. And it's super clear she's only just getting started. After stints at the MacArthur Foundation, the Brookings Institution, and RW Ventures, she took over Chicago-based Current, where our very own Steve Kloos chairs the board, in 2019. And from the very first time I met her, it was clear they had a very talented leader indeed at the helm. This conversation shows you why I thought that and that I was 1,000% right. She's awesome. Please enjoy my conversation with the wonderful Alaina Harkness. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Alaina Harkness discusses her transition into the water sector to lead Current, emphasizing the value of "interstitial" organizations that connect innovators to complex water problems. She explores the Midwest's shift from taking water abundance for granted to treating it as a vital economic asset amid growing industrial demands. Alaina also breaks down the strategy behind winning a $160M NSF grant for Great Lakes RENEW to build a circular blue economy, the importance of hiring "T-shaped" teams, and the unique realities of leading a nonprofit scale-up like a startup. 00:00 - Introduction 02:33 - Why Alaina Harkness Joined Current 06:02 - How Chicago Became a Water Innovation Hub 12:01 - Why Connectivity & Collaboration Drive Better Innovation 15:12 - Leading Current Through Rapid Growth & Industry Change 17:07 - Why Water Security Is Becoming an Economic Priority 19:52 - How Data Centers Are Reshaping Water Infrastructure 24:14 - The Strategy Behind Current’s $160M NSF Grant Win 29:55 - The Startup Lessons Behind Building a Water Innovation Ecosystem 35:56 - Inside the NSF Regional Innovation Engine Vision 42:41 - Long-Term Thinking, Investment & the Future of Water 48:01 - The Best Advice for Water Entrepreneurs Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Alaina Harkness: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alaina-harkness/ Current: https://currentwater.org/about-us/ Great Lakes RENEW: https://greatlakesrenew.org/ SM Material Key Takeaways: "Fall in love with the problem. Let it motivate you every day. Don't be seduced by one solution." "There's a humility in knowing nothing. Valuing the expertise to ask the right question is crucial." "Regional economic development is not a thing. It's fundamentally competitive, a zero-sum game." "We have to confront the physical and material realities of our world. It's starting to get priced into banking." "The number one skill in fundraising is to clearly and authentically speak to the vision." "We have a paradox of abundance. It's easier and cheaper for us to use our drinking water for industrial purposes."

    Alaina Harkness - Falling in Love with the Problem
  6. Mar 25

    Ravi Kurani - Swimming in Your Customer's Shoes

    As you may have noticed, I really like unusual routes into entrepreneurship, where someone with an unfair advantage in and around some area of the world decides to solve something dumb within it. Ravi Kurani is ground zero for that paradigm - the scion of the pool monarchy of Southern California. He will explain. He went from shop assistant to pool boy to impact investor to founder to exited founder, and is now bringing his considerable talents to the roll-up game as well as the streets of New York. He's also the host of the podcast Liquid Assets, which is excellent. So this is me shamelessly trying to steal his tricks. One of my favorite things about Ravi is his insistence on understanding the reality of markets and his commitment to the work it takes to get there. He's awesome. Please enjoy my conversation with Ravi Kurani. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Ravi Kurani is the President of Standard Water Corp, a company digitizing the world’s most critical asset. A mechanical engineer who started as a pool boy, he founded Sutro, a robotic water diagnostics platform, which was acquired in 2019. He is a Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, holds three patents in water monitoring, co-authored a book on hardware development, and hosts the Liquid Assets podcast. Ravi is passionate about building products that help society and the environment. 00:00 - Ravi Kurani’s Journey From Pool Boy to Water Tech Founder 02:57 - Building Sutro and the Case for Affordable Water Sensors 05:04 - Why Storytelling Drives Startup Funding and Distribution 13:13 - Pivoting Into the Pool Industry to Validate Water Technology 15:59 - Designing Human-Centered Hardware for Pool Owners 18:12 - Scaling a Hardware Startup From Prototype to Global Shipping 22:21 - Rolling Up Pool Service Companies With AI and Field Tech Tools 28:37 - Why Wastewater Reuse Is the Next Big Water Opportunity 29:53 - Private Equity vs Venture Capital in Water Innovation 31:18 - Liquid Assets: Explaining Water to a Broader Audience 39:36 - The Most Important Lesson for Water Entrepreneurs: Know Your Customer Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Ravi Kurani: https://ravikurani.com/ Standard Water Corp: https://www.standardwater.co/ Liquid Assets: https://www.liquidassets.cc/ SM Material Key Takeaways: "Storytelling is key. Founders often have great tech but struggle to convey it. You need to distill your message into a compelling story." "Live in your user's shoes. Understand their needs and behavior. That's the secret to creating a product that truly resonates.” "In hardware, problems are inevitable. Water gets everywhere, and electronics hate water. You must anticipate and solve these issues." "The Silver Tsunami is real. Older experts are retiring, and there's a shortage of younger replacements. We need to transfer knowledge effectively." "The Feynman curve shows that true mastery allows for simplicity. But getting there is a knife fight."

    Ravi Kurani - Swimming in Your Customer's Shoes
  7. Mar 4

    Barrett Hansen - Building the System for Cash Flows in Water

    One of the things that is most easily overlooked in water is just how big it is. And we mean Lake Michigan and the Nile and the Amazon basin and all the big things, but cash flow is just as big, if not bigger than actual flows. And all that cash needs to be managed. As you will hear, $500 billion a year flows through US utilities of all stripes alone, coming from customers, governments, NGOs and other sources into those utilities, then out to employees, service providers, utilities, chemical suppliers, consultants, all day, every day. And that half trillion dollars is handled through software that is problematic. Old, expensive, inflexible, poorly designed, especially in under-resourced utilities. Nobody has successfully built the software to help them manage these flows as efficiently as possible. Nobody until Barrett Hansen and the team at Current arrived to build a platform to solve one of the more obvious and vital workflows in utility management, aiming squarely at those under resourced utilities. Now live with 60 customers, Current is up there with the fastest growing companies we have backed and Barrett is a very smart, very humble guy. I have a soft spot for people who went to graduate school in Cambridge - Allston actually. Please enjoy my conversation with Barrett Hansen. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Barrett Hansen is the Co-Founder and CEO of Current, a cloud-native utility billing and payments platform purpose-built for small to mid-sized water utilities. An innovative problem solver with a decade of experience in tech and analytics, he combines technical strengths in data analysis, predictive modeling, and visualization with operational expertise and a strategic mindset. Previously, Barrett delivered data-driven solutions in Silicon Valley across fintech, B2B SaaS, and sales operations. He holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. 00:00 - Introduction 02:20 - Utility SaaS Opportunity in Water Industry 03:48 - Why Utility Billing Is Still Manual 06:43 - Finding Startup Ideas in Boring Industries 09:52 - How to Start a Vertical SaaS Business 13:31 - How to Get Your First Customers 17:09 - Pain vs Buying Triggers in B2B Sales 18:52 - Cold Calling Strategy That Actually Works 21:01 - How to Build a Winning SaaS MVP 25:31 - Founder Led Sales for Early Startups 27:37 - SaaS Pricing Strategy for Utilities 29:51 - Customer Onboarding and Retention Strategy 34:29 - How to Build Trust in B2B SaaS 37:04 - Expanding Into Fintech and Payments 40:34 - Using Data Analytics for Utility Insights 44:07 - Why Boring Startups Can Win Big Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Barrett Hansen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrett-hansen/ Current Software: https://www.currentsoftware.app/ SM Material Key Takeaways: "$500 billion a year goes through the US utility market, whether it's electric, gas or water. I think global will probably be about 10 times that." "Utilities, unlike other industries, they're not competitive. If anything, they're extremely collaborative. They share information." "We're data rich, insight poor. And so that's the role that we think we can play is to kind of help connect the dots there."

    Barrett Hansen - Building the System for Cash Flows in Water
  8. Feb 18

    Tom Ferguson - Fat Tails, Charlie Munger and Being an m-Maximizer

    Water is one of those sectors that hides in plain sight — essential, enormous, and quietly full of complexity — and very few people have done more over the last decade to help the world take it seriously than Tom Ferguson. From shaping the earliest conversations around water risk, to building global platforms for entrepreneurs through Imagine H2O, to founding Burnt Island Ventures as the first venture firm dedicated exclusively to water, Tom has been a consistent force in defining what this industry can become. Milestones are useful moments to pause and ask first-principle questions, and for the 50th episode of The Fundamental Molecule, Steve Kloos and I decided to do something special - flip the mic. This episode covers a lot of ground — including Charlie Munger, fat tails, Culture Bees, the Burnt Island and keeping the main thing the main thing. Please enjoy our conversation with Tom Ferguson. Subscribe to The Fundamental Molecule here: https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fundamental-molecule/id1714287205 ----------- Tom Ferguson is the Founder and Managing Partner of Burnt Island Ventures. With a decade in water and startups, he previously led Imagine H2O’s global programming, where companies raised $600M+ under his tenure. Tom holds an MA from the University of Edinburgh and an MBA from Harvard Business School. Christine Boyle is a Partner at Burnt Island Ventures. A veteran entrepreneur, she founded Valor Water Analytics and led its sale to Xylem in 2018, where she later served as VP of Digital Product Development. She is also the Chair of the Cal-Nevada American Water Works Association. Steve Kloos is a Partner at Burnt Island Ventures. An experienced investor and leader, his background includes pivotal roles at GE Water and True North Venture Partners. He is the founding board chair of Current Water and a longtime advisor to Imagine H2O, specializing in water and climate tech. 00:00 - Water Tech and Entrepreneurship Trends 01:40 - Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing 03:43 - Spot the Series B Funding Gap 06:31 - Scale from Seed to Growth Investing 09:19 - Win in Water with Better Storytelling 13:44 - Use Acting Skills for Founder Leadership 16:43 - Build a Fat Tailed Water VC Portfolio 21:05 - Use Munger Mental Models to Invest Smarter 25:43 - Build Culture Beats that Drive Behavior 26:53 - Hire for Learning Speed 33:03 - Choose a Memorable Fund Name 36:22 - Build a Water Specialist Mega Fund 40:29 - Pick the Right Water Startup Problem Links: Burnt Island Ventures: https://www.burntislandventures.com/ Tom Ferguson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-ferguson-biv/ Christine Boyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cboyle/ Steve Kloos: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-kloos-4136bb3/ SM Material Key Takeaways: "Stories are powerful. They help us make sense of the world. They shape meaning and understanding." "Find people who know where to put themselves in the kitchen. It’s about action and understanding." "Be the queen in the kitchen. Know where to put yourself. Act on what needs to be done." "Avoid failure by eliminating paths to failure. It’s not about brilliance, but about avoiding mistakes." "In water, the survival rate is high. We focus on companies with good bones that stick around." "We're building the plane as we're flying. Our journey mirrors our founders' experiences." "Inversion is key. Avoid what doesn’t work. Focus on consistent, not stupid, decisions."

    Tom Ferguson - Fat Tails, Charlie Munger and Being an m-Maximizer

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Welcome to The Fundamental Molecule. This show explores the intersection of water, technology and entrepreneurship. Each week, Tom Ferguson, Managing Partner of Burnt Island Ventures, interviews innovators, experts, entrepreneurs and investors in the world of water, to help us understand where this trillion dollar industry is headed. These are the stories of the people building the future of the world’s most valuable and fundamental resource. Explore all of our episodes and learn more at https://www.burntislandventures.com/the-fundamental-molecule