The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

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The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

  1. 10H AGO

    'Another World is Possible', says journalist Natasha Hakimi Zapata

    Americans have come to assume that heavy medical debt, unaffordable housing and lack of quality child care are normal features of life. Is there another way?Journalist Natasha Hakimi Zapata traveled the world to find out how other countries are solving problems that plague the United States. From housing, climate change and public education, to addiction and health care, Hakimi Zapata found innovative and affordable approaches that do better. She reports on her globetrotting investigation in her new book, “Another World Is Possible: Lessons for America from Around the Globe.”Natasha Hakimi Zapata is an award-winning journalist, university lecturer and translator. She is the former foreign editor of Truthdig, and her work has appeared in The Nation, Los Angeles Review of Books, In These Times and elsewhere.Hakimi Zapata said she “took a crib-to-crypt approach to policy,” including a look at universal healthcare in the UK, family friendly policies in Norway, "public-housing-for-all in Singapore, universal public education in Finland, drug decriminalization in Portugal, ...internet as a human right policies in Estonia, renewable energy transition in Uruguay, biodiversity protections in Costa Rica, and then finally, sort of the end of a lifetime, with universal non-contributory pensions in New Zealand.”Hakimi Zapata spoke about Portugal’s decision in 2000 to decriminalize personal drug possession. “Not only did addiction rates fall — overdose deaths fell, HIV/AIDS rates fell, but so did drug use.”Portugal has demonstrated that “if you treat this as a public health issue … you allow people to reach out for help without the fear of incarceration.”Hakimi Zapata noted, “There's this myth at the core of American society that somehow places like Norway can afford these great policies because everyone pays more taxes. And the truth is they have a more progressive stepped tax system than we do. They do not have off ramps for the wealthiest Americans or corporations to pay less, or nothing, like we do in the US.”Hakimi Zapata insisted that progressive social policies often take root in difficult times. The National Health Service in the UK came “out of the ashes of World War II. You have Uruguay’s renewable grid transition coming out of long periods of literal darkness in which they couldn't keep the lights on in their own country.”“At this moment, remember that things can change for the better nearly as quickly as they can change for the worse, and we can still make things better.”

    52 min

  2. MAR 5

    Wall Street Journal correspondent Yaroslav Trofimov on why Trump admires Putin

    In Donald Trump’s world, friends and enemies trade places with breathtaking speed. Consider the case of Ukraine.President Joe Biden hailed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as “the man of the year” and pledged that the U.S. “will not walk away from Ukraine” in its war against Russia, which attacked Ukraine and annexed Crimea in 2014, and launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.Last week, President Donald Trump called Zelensky “a dictator,” falsely blamed Ukraine for starting the war with Russia, and effectively walked away from Ukraine by halting the delivery of weapons and stopping intelligence sharing. Trump has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin as “savvy” and a “genius.”Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau expressed the whiplash that many are feeling about Trump when he said, "Today the United States launched a trade war against Canada, their closest partner and ally, their closest friend. At the same time, they are talking about working positively with Russia, appeasing Vladimir Putin, a lying, murderous dictator. Make that make sense." Yaroslav Trofimov has long been making sense of a complicated world. He is the chief foreign correspondent for the Wall Street Journal. Trofimov was born in Ukraine and has reported from the front lines there. He was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in international reporting in 2023 for his work on Ukraine, and in 2022 for his work on Afghanistan, and won the National Press Club award for political analysis in 2024. He is the author of four books, including “No Country for Love,” a historical novel set in Ukraine that was inspired by his family history, and was published this month.Describing the disastrous meeting between Presidents Zelensky and Trump, Trofimov quoted Lech Walesa, the former trade union leader and president of Poland, who co-signed a letter with former Polish political prisoners saying that “the meeting in the Oval Office reminded him of the interrogations he had in the communist secret police rooms and in the kangaroo communist courts, where, as he said, we were also told we have no cards.”“Zelensky told Trump that I'd like to sign an agreement, but what is the guarantee that Putin won’t attack again? And Trump's response was basically, Trust me bro.”Trump’s “priority is not a peaceful settlement in Ukraine. His main priority seems to be to open up relations with Vladimir Putin’s Russia, economic, political, geopolitical,” said Trofimov.“Zelensky is just a chip to be traded, and it looks like the administration will be perfectly happy for the war to end on Russia's terms, meaning that Ukraine will fall back on the de facto Russian rule (under) Russian authority as long as its mineral wealth is sent over the United States.”What is behind Trump’s warm embrace of Putin?Trofimov explained that Putin “has always believed that big powers like Russia have the right to a sphere of influence, to arrange things in the neighborhood, and that it's a natural right. And President Putin has described his policy as the Monroe Doctrine 2.0, which is the American version of this 19th century imperialism.”Similarly, Trump is “laying claims on Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal, which is very similar to the language that Putin is using against Ukraine or the Baltic states. It is also kind of aided by changes inside the American Conservative ... MAGA movement, where a certain fetishization of Russia has taken hold.”“In the, in the collective imagination of parts of MAGA, Russia is seen as this beacon of Christian family values, traditional values, this antidote to the woke virus. It couldn’t be further from the actual Russia that exists, which is a country with one of (the highest) abortion and divorce rates, with rapidly shrinking population, with endemic corruption.”What will happen to Ukraine if the U.S. ends its support?

    34 min

  3. FEB 26

    The Mirnavator challenges herself and others to get outside their comfort zone

    Mirna Valerio, aka The Mirnavator, would like you to join her outside her comfort zone.That’s where I found her when we were both backcountry skiing at Bolton Valley recently. I immediately recognized her from Instagram, where she has 165k followers at @themirnavator. But when I called her an “influencer,” she quickly corrected me. She said she prefers “possibility model.”Valerio, 49, is a former school teacher and author of the acclaimed blog, Fat Girl Running. The resident of Winooski is now a full-time professional athlete who has attracted legions of fans for her humor and honesty as she takes on big challenges, including multi-day ultramarathons. A self-described large woman and slow runner, she is a champion of body positivity. She hopes that as a Black women participating in what have been traditional white spaces — such as skiing, running and endurance sports — she can show people that being active and joyful do not know bounds of color, size, age, ability or any other difference.Valerio has been profiled in numerous national news outlets including NBC News, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, Runners World and the Today Show. She was recognized in 2018 by National Geographic as an Adventurer of the Year.Valerio has a book, “A Beautiful Work in Progress,” that she also hopes will inspire and motivate people.Valerio explained that it was 2015 when she started getting attention for her blog “about me being a plus size Black ultra marathoner.” It was “just me doing long distance in the body that I have, and crushing stereotypes of being of a fat person doing sports.”Valerio has a message to others. “People will always have something to say and an opinion about what you look like, the things that you do, what they think you should be doing, what they think you shouldn't be doing, and all of that's going to keep existing. But you can make a choice as to whether or not you are going to let that run your life.”“I say, you know, let curiosity be your guide. …And do the things that you need to do for yourself. Even though all of that other negative talk, it might be negative self talk too, even though all of that exists, you go out and do what you need and want to do for yourself.”Valerio, who is an unapologetic advocate of diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI), says, “When I show up in a space that has traditionally not seen someone like me in that space, whether it's because of my body size, my gender or my race, I am sending a message, and it's not always easy. …Nature is for everybody. These lakes, these reservoirs, these camp spots, are for everyone. And I want everybody to be able to experience the delight and wonder of being out of nature. So if that means that I step into a space that's primarily white or that has previously been hostile to Black people or people of any other sort of non white identities, then I'm going to keep doing it, just so people can see me and know that they're going to be okay too.”

    36 min

  4. FEB 19

    'An attempted coup' — Rep. Becca Balint on Trump's power grab

    Is President Donald Trump staging a coup?“It's certainly an attempted coup, for sure,” Rep. Becca Balint, D-Vt, told The Vermont Conversation.As Trump and billionaire Elon Musk tear through Washington firing thousands of federal workers and shuttering federal agencies, Balint has been drawn out of the halls of Congress to protest in the streets. She joined Congressional Democrats in front of the Department of Education to denounce taking “money away from our kids to give it to billionaires,” and protested in front of the Treasury Department decrying a “hostile takeover.”Speaking outside the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau last week, another agency that Trump is dismantling, Vermont’s second term congresswoman said she was there to “represent rural America” and that the CFPB “is protecting all of us from the kind of fraudsters and scammers that are in the White House right now.”Balint, who is the vice ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, has implored people to “tune in” to what Trump and Musk are doing. “Authoritarians win when we stop paying attention,” she said at the Treasury.Balint spoke with The Vermont Conversation while she was in Vermont this week.“These executive orders, these sweeping orders, many of which run afoul of federal law and the Constitution, it is difficult to look at what is happening and not come to the conclusion that in fact, they are trying to seize power away from everyday Americans, but also power away from the other two branches of government,” she said. “And we saw (Vice President) J.D. Vance this past week making statements that the president actually didn't need to listen to rulings of the court. And of course, if we don't have a checks and balances system here, then we don't have democracy as our founders envisioned it.”Balint said that her Republican colleagues have acquiesced to Trump’s power grab. “Some of them seem absolutely comfortable with this because they believe in the mission of a Christian nationalist vision for this country. Some of them go along with it because they are afraid of losing their own power.”Balint bristled at the suggestion that Democrats bear some responsibility for the political turmoil. “It sticks in my craw a little bit when people talk about the Democrats, because we are not a monolith.”Vermont’s lone congressional representative conceded that Democrats did not effectively address economic disparity in the runup to the 2024 election. “We have a disgusting, unconscionable wealth gap in this country, and I think that we should have been singularly focused on the needs of families who were struggling to make ends meet and continue to struggle.”Who will lead the resistance? “I understand the frustration and people are looking for one voice, and I think this is a time that is unprecedented. We are trying to fight a battle on so many different fronts right now, and so I'm really putting my head down in my two committees and figuring out how I can continue to push myself, my team, and my colleagues to be much more engaged with the people, because that is how we're going to right the ship right now. As you know, Democrats don't have the House, they don't have the Senate, they don't have the White House. We need three Republicans in the House to have a conscience right now, just three. So we're very focused on that.”“I can't tell people not to be angry or frustrated. I'm angry and frustrated,” said Balint. “I am absolutely frightened and chilled by where we are right now, and I'm not going to go along as if it's business as usual there.”Balint urged people to re-engage with politics. “I know people are exhausted. I understand why you just want to take care of you. But as much as we can encourage our friends and family, I always say just to check back in about what's happening because the stakes are incredibly high right now, and it's going to take all of us.

    36 min

  5. FEB 13

    One woman's odyssey from Africa to asylum in Vermont 

    Trudy fled her home in Africa in fear for her life. Her “crime” was supporting a candidate for president who was running against the incumbent leader. As her friends and family were being kidnapped, tortured and killed, Trudy decided to save herself and her 1 year old daughter. Seven years ago, she left her country. She arrived in the U.S., applied for and was granted political asylum, and is now a permanent resident in Vermont. Citing concerns about the safety of her relatives, Trudy asked to be identified by her first name.One of President Donald Trump’s first acts was to shut down asylum and refugee admissions, accusing migrants of staging an “invasion.” The American Civil Liberties Union has since filed a federal lawsuit accusing the Trump administration of violating legal obligations to offer refuge to those fleeing persecution.“Those changes were introduced for the purpose of chilling the system, of scaring everyone into hiding, into retreat, into inaction, into panic, into self-deportation or self-harm,” said Jill Martin Diaz, an immigration attorney who is executive director of Vermont Asylum Assistance Project (VAAP), a legal services and advocacy organization. “Even though a lot of these executive actions will not survive scrutiny in court, just having passed them and created fear in our communities is already having a really chilling effect.”Martin Diaz explained that there have recently been a number of arrests in Vermont by agents of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Agents have reportedly been showing up at supermarkets, gas stations and Western Union offices where migrant workers are known to frequent. VAAP has a form on its website to report ICE activity.Vermont is home to several thousand asylum seekers, according to Martin Diaz.Trudy explained that had she been sent back to her country, she considered giving up her daughter for adoption and then returning to "face the consequences.”“When I got asylum, I got my life back,” Trudy said. “You have no idea what it feels like to be in a state where you don't know. Because most people who leave their countries to come here don't leave because they want to. For example, for me, I had everything. I had a good job, I'd gone to school. I don't come from a very poor family. I came here because of security reasons for my child and for me.”Once she received asylum, “a whole burden fell off of me. I started my recovering process.”Trudy now works as a business office manager and her daughter is in third grade.“We are moving forward. We are looking towards the future. We are hopeful. We are happy. We are fine. We are really fine.”

    34 min

  6. FEB 5

    ACLU leaders on how freedom and unity will overcome fear and division

    President Trump’s gusher of executive orders upending government and targeting vulnerable people is spreading fear and anxiety. In just the last week, Trump has issued orders that would ban gender-affirming health care, effectively close the US Agency for International Development and threaten to close the federal Department of Education, fire career federal prosecutors, freeze some $3 trillion in federal grants, end birthright citizenship, block people from seeking asylum, and construct additional detention centers in Guantanamo Bay for thousands of immigrants to be held.A headline in today’s New York Times proclaims, “Trump Brazenly Defies Laws in Escalating Executive Power Grab.”Yale historian Timothy Snyder is more direct: “Of course it’s a coup,” he proclaimed in his Substack.And this is just the third week of Trump’s presidency.Resistance has been steadily building, especially on the legal front. More than two dozen lawsuits have been filed by Democratic attorneys general, including Vermont Attorney General Charity Clark, as well as the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups. A number of the legal challenges have succeeded in stopping Trump’s more audacious moves. A federal judge blocked the attempt to end birthright citizenship, declaring that it was “blatantly unconstitutional.”James Lyall is executive director of the ACLU of Vermont (full disclosure: I am a board member of the ACLU of Vermont). Nationally, the ACLU has already sued the Trump administration over fast track deportation and restrictions on trans youth health care, birthright citizenship and asylum.Lyall acknowledged the fear that has gripped vulnerable communities including immigrants and LGBTQ+ people and that his office has seen a sharp uptick in calls. But he believes there is reason for hope.“The fact that so many people want to help and are reaching out to figure out how to support their neighbors and their communities when they feel so threatened right now, that's incredibly powerful,” he said.“As difficult as it is in moments of uncertainty and fear and even chaos, it's that determination of everyday community members to support one another and to find a way forward that's just really powerful. That is what solidarity looks like.”“Trump can say whatever he wants. It doesn't necessarily make it so. It's really important to remember that we have strong protections on the books,” he said. He urges people to know their rights.“For all the progress we've made in recent years in Vermont, legislators can and do more to shore up our state-level defenses,” he advised.Lyall urged people “not let ourselves or others just be overwhelmed by the chaos. Because that's an intentional part of their strategy.”“Those who would seek to divide us or sow fear — we know how to get through this, and it's together,” he said. “That is what Vermont — the state of freedom and unity — that's what we are designed for. I just have a lot of faith in the state and its people to come together to get through hard times, and this is certainly one of them.”

    27 min

  7. JAN 29

    Facing 'systematic abandonment' by the Trump administration, Vermont refugees confront fear and uncertainty 

    Numerous refugees living in Vermont have lost support for food, rent and other basic needs after a funding freeze imposed by the Trump administration. Refugee assistance organizations lost access to federal funds on Monday, only to have a judge block the order on Tuesday, and have the government rescind the order on Wednesday. The situation has caused confusion and panic among newly arrived refugees, who are legal immigrants who often arrive here with nothing.The federal refugee program assists people who have escaped war, natural disaster or persecution. Refugees typically receive reception and placement (R&P) funds in their first 90 days in the country. Newly arrived families in Vermont receive $1,650 in R&P funds that enables them to pay for initial housing, medicine, clothing and other basic needs. Last week, the Trump administration halted refugee admissions, stopped R&P payments, and suspended nearly all foreign aid.The president of Oxfam America denounced the halt in foreign aid as “a cruel decision that has life or death consequences for millions of people around the world."On Wednesday afternoon, facing furious backlash, the Trump administration rescinded its order that froze trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans. But this did not restore the reception and placement funding, leaving 59 recently arrived families with few resources on which to survive. And as of Wednesday afternoon, some Vermont refugee groups were still unable to access federal funds to support their general operations.On Tuesday afternoon, we spoke about what is happening to refugees in Vermont with Molly Gray, the executive of the Vermont Afghan Alliance, Yassin Hashimi, a program manager at the organization, and Sonali Samarasinghe, Field Office Director for the Vermont office of the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI).“What we've seen over the last week is a systematic abandonment of Afghan allies and refugees more generally,” said Gray. More than 600 people from Afghanistan, many of whom helped the U.S. in its diplomatic and military missions, have settled in Vermont following the withdrawal of U.S. troops and the collapse of the U.S.-backed government in 2021.Samarasinghe said, “It is undeniable that our capacity is being diminished but we are fighting back to continue to support these efforts, to support our clients at least, and we are confident that with the support of Vermonters on the ground here, and we are beyond grateful for their generosity of spirit each and every day, we can meet these challenges.".Yassin Hashimi was working on a project for the U.S. Embassy in Kabul before fleeing Afghanistan and coming to the U.S. in 2023. His parents have received approval to come to the U.S. but are stuck in Pakistan due to the Trump administration’s freeze on refugee programs. Hashimi has already rented an apartment around Burlington in anticipation of their arrival, but does not know when or if they will arrive. “Sometimes we have to be ready for the worst situation,” he reflected.But he added, “We should not give up and we should keep fighting for the things which is right.”

    26 min

  8. JAN 22

    Bill McKibben on fighting for change under the new Trump administration

    Donald Trump launched his second term as president this week by enacting executive orders authorizing mass deportations, curtailing the rights of LGBTQ+ people, withdrawing from climate accords and pardoning his supporters who assaulted Capitol police officers. Flanked by an assortment of the richest men on Earth, Trump's inauguration vividly symbolized the dawn of a new age of oligarchs.This has many people — including the nearly two-thirds of Vermonters who voted against Trump — in despair.Bill McKibben has long found hope and opportunity in the face of daunting challenges. As one of America’s leading climate activists, McKibben freely admits that he has lost more fights than he has won, as evidenced by the inexorably rising global temperatures and the proliferation of climate-fueled disasters, most recently in Los Angeles, where wildfires have burned over 40,000 acres and destroyed over 15,000 structures .But McKibben keeps writing, organizing, and launching movements. He founded the global grassroots climate campaign 350.org that helped to stop major oil pipelines. And he launched a fossil fuel divestment movement that has resulted in more than 1,500 institutions with $40 trillion in assets committing to divesting from fossil fuels.Four years ago, McKibben launched Third Act, a political movement of people over 60 to use their “unparalleled generational power to safeguard our climate and democracy.” The organization is now 100,000 volunteers strong.“It feels to me as if a kind of arc of American history that began with the election of FDR has come to an end,” said McKibben. “The idea that America was a group project that we were working on together trying to make things better, always imperfectly, often dangerously for other parts of the world, but nonetheless a consistent effort to build a country that that worked, that feels like it's over and we're now in some new era where we do not understand what the goals are, what the rules are, what the ideas are, what the etiquette is. I mean, watching Elon Musk throw up a Nazi salute was a pretty breathtaking moment.”McKibben said that currently immigration is one of his biggest concerns. “The thing that we should be saddest and scared about is what immigrants to this country must be feeling right now. The amount of fear there must be in people's homes every night when they go to bed, just that quanta of apprehension and fright, must be off the charts,” he said. “I don't know quite how we're going to be able to come to the defense of people, but I hope that we can figure out some ways to do it in the longer term.”McKibben added that his other big concern is “the single deepest problem facing the planet, and that's its rapidly escalating temperature.”Trump declared in his inaugural speech that he was declaring an “energy emergency.” “Of course, that's absurd,” said McKibben. “We have no shortage of energy. We're producing more oil and gas than we've ever produced before. The real problem, the real urgency, is that the people who control that oil and gas are worried that we might use less of it someday.”“We're in an emergency," he continued, "but it's not the one that he's describing. The emergency that we're in, obviously, is the one that drove temperatures higher in 2024 than they've ever been before, and the one that set our second largest city on fire.”McKibben said that Trump and his oil industry backers hope “that they can get another 10 or 20 years out of their business model even at the cost of breaking the planet, because that's clearly going to be the cost.”McKibben noted that the fossil fuel industry is losing a race against the burgeoning renewable energy sector, in which China I leading the way with cheap solar panels and electric vehicles. “Every day on this Earth people are putting up solar panels equivalent to a nuclear power plant. ...

    49 min
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About

The Vermont Conversation is a VTDigger podcast hosted by award-winning journalist David Goodman. It features in-depth interviews about local and national topics with politicians, activists, artists, changemakers and ordinary citizens. The Vermont Conversation is also an hour-long weekly radio program that can be heard on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. on WDEV/Radio Vermont.

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