Christopher Lochhead Follow Your Different™ Podcast is a celebration of people, ideas and companies that stand out. A leader in the category “dialogue podcasts,” it feels like eavesdropping on a surprisingly captivating, candid, insightful, no-BS and conversation. Lochhead features legends whose names you will know and everyday legends who you’ll love getting to know. New York Times Bestselling author Hal Elrod calls it “one of the best podcasts of all time”, NBA Legend Bill Walton calls Lochhead “an exploding star – a quasar across the sky", The Marketing Journal says he’s “one of the best minds in marketing” and The Economist says he’s, “off-putting to some”.
A New Way To Think with World’s #1 Management Thinker Roger Martin
On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we have a radically different dialogue about thinking with the legendary Roger Martin – a man who has been called, “the world's number one management thinker” by former Ford CEO Jim Hackett.
Roger Martin is a Professor Emeritus at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, where he served as Dean from 98 to 2013, and as Institutional Director of the Martin Prosperity Interest Institute from 2013 to 2019. In 2013, he was also named Global Dean of the Year.
In this remarkable conversation, we dig into the definition of thinking. We also discuss the difference between what Roger calls reflexive versus reflective thinking, and why thinking is a meta skill. So if you are interested on expanding the way you think, stay and listen to learn more.
Roger Martin on Thinking about Thinking
The conversation starts off on the topic of thinking about thinking, and if it’s weird to do so. Roger offers his thoughts on the matter:
“I don't think so, no. But you know, I am surprised at the number of people who seem to not think about how they think – they just think. And then when something kind of bad happens, they're kind of flummoxed. The ones who are more inclined to think about how they're thinking are more likely to say, “well, maybe I wasn't thinking about that the best way I could, what would be a different way to think about it?” ” – Roger Martin
The Definition of Thinking
Before heading into deeper topics, we discuss the definition of thinking. Roger gives an explanation of his definition of thinking below:
“I see it as the process of reflecting on your world against a model you have of it. So you'd be thinking, if you say, that person just smiled at me as we walked by each other. So that was stimulus to your senses. And to think about it, you have to have some kind of a model in your head interpreting it. So you would say, when the corners of the lips go up like that, it generally means that that person is kind of happy, or is favorably disposed toward me, and not they have a nervous tic. But that could be another interpretation of it. But you have some kind of model that says, “this is my method of interpreting what is happening to me.” “ – Roger Martin
The thing is, other people might not have the same model as you do, unless you are privy that information. This often results in clashes in models, or a misinterpretation of other people’s model because they are unfamiliar, or radically different from yours.
That is where thinking about thinking plays a role.
Reflexive versus Reflective Thinking
Roger was then presented with a thought about the current way of thinking:
“We live in a world today that what that says that what most people call thinking is actually the mental retweeting of something they heard that they like, that often confirms and existing thought. And that existing thought was something they were taught to think, ergo, what most people call thinking today is actually not thinking.”
Roger’s response is that conceptually, that is correct. But in a way, it is also another type of thinking.
“What you describe is also thinking, but it is a much more reflexive form of thinking, then reflective form of thinking. So it's sort of a bit of a, like a reflexive pattern recognition. But I don't object to calling non reflective thinking to be just barely thinking or maybe not thinking at all.” – Roger Martin
To learn more about Roger Martin & the different kinds of thinking, download and listen to this episode.
Roger L. Martin is Professor Emeritus at the Rotman School of Management at University of Toronto, where he served as Dean from 1998 to 2013, and as Institute Director of the Martin Prosperity Institute from 2013 to 2019.
The Culture Playbook with NYT Bestselling Author Daniel Coyle
Many people are asking how do we create legendary cultures in a digital / hybrid work environment. On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we ask Daniel Coyle this question: how can we create legendary cultures?
Daniel Coyle is a New York Times bestselling author. His book, The Culture Code, was named the Best Business Book of the Year a little while back by Bloomberg. He has a new book out now, called The Culture Playbook: 60 highly effective actions to help your group succeed.
He is the man on all things culture, so stay and listen to learn more.
Daniel Coyle on Writing His New Book
The conversation starts of with congratulating Daniel Coyle on publishing his latest book, The Culture Playbook. Daniel follows up on his thoughts on how he feels when launching a new project or book.
“We are living through a moment, aren't we? It's like, when you start a project like this, you're never quite sure when it's going to land. And everybody's trying to figure out, “How are we going? How are we going to do this? How are we going to work together now? Everybody's having that conversation now. It is a moment, and it's kind of fun to explore what's possible” – Daniel Coyle
The Transition Period
Daniel was then asked about his thoughts on certain huge companies that are telling their people to go back to the office. Another thing to note was that those who are pushing for these things are usually those who are Native Analogs – people whose life don’t revolve in the digital sphere.
Daniel thinks that this current period is a transitional phase, and it’s a way for companies to see what works and what doesn’t.
“Is it transition and it is totally fascinating to see us people self-organize in this new world. And there's basically two schools of thought about it. The first school of thought is, this was a rupture. People things will never go back to the way they were, people discovered that they had lives outside of work.
Then there's another school of thought, which says, Yeah, this is kind of part of a larger, longer journey, there was a sort of zoom out where people realized, hey, life's a lot bigger than work. But at the same time, that there is kind of a joy and a pleasure and a positivity and a productivity that comes out of being in the office. It's maybe not five days a week, maybe it's three, maybe it's two.” – Daniel Coyle
Daniel admits that he himself falls under the second school of thought, and that going to the office can be quite beneficial for productivity, even if it’s just 2 to 3 days off a week.
Organizing Your Office for the New Work Experience
On the topic of adopting the hybrid workplace, one of the issues brought up was the lack of coordination. For example, one could be scheduled to be at the office, yet the people who they have to work or have a meeting with are staying at home.
Daniel agrees that this is currently happening in a lot of offices, and is something that the teams and management need to address. They have to be intentional and work out schedules where everyone in the team is in the office at the same time, so they can meet and collaborate on what needs to be done for their projects.
Management can also help in coordinating schedules, so that different teams that need to work together can have overlapping schedules.
But at the end of the day, the initiative to coordinate should come from the teams themselves. Otherwise, you’ll be stuck in your cubicle, still doing zoom calls with your teammates.
To hear more from Daniel Coyle and how to create a legendary culture in your workplace, download and listen to this episode.
Daniel Coyle is the New York Times best-selling author of The Culture Playbook, The Culture Code, The Secret Race, The Little Book of Talent, The Talent Code,
David Gergen, Hearts Touched By Fire
Welcome to the second part of our extraordinary, unfiltered, unfettered real dialogue with David Gergen. On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we dive into the key themes of his new book about leadership, called Hearts on Fire: How great leaders are made.
David Gergen has served as an adviser to four United States President Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and most recently, Clinton. He is the rare political leader to serve his country from both Republican and Democratic vantage points. Professor Gergen also teaches public service, and as the founding director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. He is also the winner of two Peabody awards for excellence in broadcasting.
If you want to check out the first part our dialogue with David Gergen, you can check out FYD episode 266, where he talked about his thoughts on the war in Ukraine, and the people with important roles to play in it.
David Gergen: Hearts on Fire
The conversation starts off on the topic of David’s new book, and how it is different from his previous work. His new book, Hearts on Fire, felt more like a love letter to the Native Digital generation, and encouraging them as they face the future ahead.
David explains that he felt as though people that are currently handling the reins are going in the wrong direction. But he could see potential in the new generation, and would like to share his knowledge to them and help them grow.
“There were a lot of individuals in my classroom. So I thought the world of them, and I thought they were really impressive. They have the capacity to change the world, or just manage to change this country. So this was a an attempt to call them, to summon who would like to get in the arena. I think they can make a huge difference.” – David Gergen
For David, his latest work was like a Legacy book; a message he wanted to leave for the next generation.
Turning Adversity into Purpose
A huge topic in this book is how to tackle adversity – not just to overcome it, but to use it to find your purpose.
David explains that a lot of the younger generations can do great things. But they are hampered by the fact that they have not figured out what their purpose is.
“We can draw hope from the quality of the people who are coming in these next generations. They're just people who will knock your socks off when you spend time with them. But they're still searching how they can make a difference.” – David Gergen
Like David said, he wanted his book to be a guide, or at the very least, share his own experiences so that the new generation can derive what they can do better in their life.
David Gergen on Passing the Baton
For David, writing this book was like passing the baton to the next generation. That said, he thinks that the older folks should be willing to do so, rather than clinging to power.
This also leads to the discussion about how leadership is evolving nowadays. We are no longer living in a world in which leaders are only formed in our nation's most lead institutions. Rather, the current leaders of the generation come from the crowd themselves, like Greta, the Parkland students, and Malala.
To hear more from David Gergen and how the younger generation’s hearts of fire can help spark change in the world, download and listen to this episode.
David Gergen is a professor of public service and founding director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. In addition, he serves as a senior political analyst for CNN and works actively with a rising generation of new leaders.
In the past, he has served as a White House adviser to four U.S. presidents of both parties: Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton.
Free Speech with Jacob Mchangama, Author of “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media”
Free speech is often called the first freedom and the bedrock of democracy. Our guest today says that on one hand, free speech around the world has never been better. But right now, we are experiencing a free speech entropy in the United States. On this episode of Christopher Lochhead, we have a deep dialogue about Free Speech with Jacob Mchangama.
Jacob Mchangama is a global expert on free speech. Political satirist PJ O'Rourke says that his new book is. “The best history of free speech ever written, and the best defense of free speech ever made.” That book is called Free Speech: a history from Socrates to social media, and it is out now. Jacob is a Danish lawyer, and the founder of Justicia, a Copenhagen-based think tank that focuses on human rights, freedom of speech, and the rule of law.
So if you want to learn more about free speech, how it has evolved through history, and what it will look like in the future, stay tuned to this episode.
Jacob Mchangama on Free Speech
The conversation begins on Jacob’s work on free speech, and his new book about it. He was then asked about what his thoughts on the current state of free speech in the world today.
According to Jacob, we’ve never had it better. It may not be as apparent in the US, but if you consider the rest of the world, people get to speak out more than ever before. Most of which was born with the proliferation of the internet, and the wide reach it provides.
“You and I can speak there's no censor, making sure that we don't say inappropriate things. And you know, so technology, internet has given us unprecedented opportunities.” – Jacob Mchangama
Recession of Free Speech
It is really the golden age of free speech. Though according to Jacob, it is an age that is currently in decline.
As things enter a more stable period after a boom of ideas, a state of entropy starts to set in. It is no different with free speech, as Jacob explains:
“Every time there's a period in history where free speech is now sort of secure and we've turned the corner, a process of free speech entropy sets in. “ – Jacob Mchangama
This comes after the European Union is in the process of adopting a law which would, which says that social media companies have to remove your illegal content within a short timeframe or risk huge fines. Social media themselves are almost self-censoring to a point, restricting certain content from appearing on people’s search results and feeds.
The Evolution of Free Speech in the US
Moving the topic to the US side of things, Jacob finds the US and its take on free speech fascinating. According to him, it seems that free speech has evolved and grown over the years, and yet the first amendment and its wording has remained the same.
The evolution stems on how the US society interprets these words, leading to the growth of its scope and reach. As Jacob puts it, nowadays it’s difficult to imagine what you could say to a sitting US president that would get you in jail, short of direct threats or incitement of violence. Yet in the old days, you could go to jail for making a snide remark about an incumbent president.
But this same flexibility and reach is what’s putting free speech in a tight spot. With the wide reach of the internet also comes rampant misinformation. The issue is some of the people peddling misinformation is hiding behind the notion of free speech, which makes it difficult to remove once and for all.
Though for Jacob, it will all boil down to how we, as a society, will decide on what's acceptable or not.
“Ultimately, I think that the culture of free speech is probably more important than the legal language, or a legal statute, or constitutional protection. Because ultimately, the culture of free speech is what will inform where we draw the limits,
Inside Ukraine/Russia War: What Are Real Cyber Threats? How Will It End? with Dmitri Alperovitch, US Homeland Security Advisory, Co-Founder of CrowdStrike, Chairman Silverado Policy Accelerator
On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we go deep into topics that traditional television could and would not go. Specifically, we talk about the war in Ukraine, and where all of this might end with our guest, Dmitri Alperovitch. We also talk about cyber threats, and how capable the US is against it.
Dmitri Alperovitch is one of America's top cybersecurity experts. He is on the US homeland security advisory council, and the co-founder and former Chief Technology Officer of the $50 billion market cap CrowdStrike. Right now, he is also the chairman of Silverado Policy Accelerator.
So when he talks about cyber threats and security, you’d best listen in.
Achieving Escalation Dominance
The conversation starts off with Dmitri explaining that the United States has the capability to take Russia off the internet. They could it temporarily, or even permanently – though it could prove complicated to do so. Both of which can be escalatory and provocative.
Dmitri’s point on this is that rather than slowly matching Russia’s actions with certain sanctions or retaliating in a similar manner, the US can use this to send a message and stop those attacks from further escalating in the first place.
“If they do launch those attacks, in my opinion, we need to be very thoughtful about our response. We need to make sure that we achieve escalation dominance, in that we stop those attacks that in their tracks that we send a very strong message to Moscow: that this is not going to be tolerated, this is not going to be acceptable.” – Dmitri Alperovitch
Life Without Internet
As to why this would serve as a great deterrent, Dmitri explains that while they could still send people to do cyberattacks on the US from other places, this would send a strong signal to make them think twice about it.
Because like the rest of the world, they are also dependent on this digital resource to run their country. Nowadays, energy sectors, healthcare, and logistics see the highest usage rate for it. So in effect, shutting down their internet capabilities could have a strong effect on their economy as well.
“The goal of the internet shutdown is not to stop cyber attacks; that is an impossibility because they can launch them from any place. And we're not going to go around the world shutting down countries from the internet. That's not an interest in the United States. The goal is to demonstrate the type of effect we can have on their economy, if they continue to judge those attacks from wherever they may launch them, from Russia or elsewhere.” – Dmitri Alperovitch
Though Dmitri warns that this should only be done as a retaliatory action or response to an attack, rather than a pre-emptive strike. Because if they decide to do the latter, it might suddenly invite attacks, so the US should consider things carefully first.
The Effectivity of Cyber Attacks
Dmitri describes cyber attacks as a perfect tool for inflicting damage but having the option of anonymity or deniability. One can execute it remotely, and still have impact on a far-away area or country. Though for something as overt as what Russia was doing, defaulting to kinetic weapons and outright war could achieve their objectives.
Though it is not to say that cyber attacks is ineffective in this case, as Dmitri shares what happened in the first few hours or the Russian attacks on Ukraine.
“One of the attacks that has not gotten a lot of attention was the hack of a US-based satellite provider called ViaSat that has a subsidiary that provides satellite communication services to Eastern Europe, particularly the Ukraine military. The Russians had actually hacked that satellite provider, or actors are believed to be Russian. They were able to essentially cripple satellite modems, thousands of them that the Ukrainians were using in the first ho...
You: Why Legendary Leaders Are Themselves. A very different Dialogue with Minter Dial, Award-Winning Author of “You Lead”
On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we ask the question: Who are You? What do you want to be? What's the difference between being and doing? And who better to help us answer those questions that the legendary Minter Dial.
Minter Dial is a B2C Branding Master, having had a legendary career with L’Oreal and the CEO of hair care brand REDKEN. He’s also an extraordinary storyteller; his first two published books be international prize winners. His new book, called You Lead, is definitely a must-read.
If you believe in the power of dialogue to change thinking, you’re going to love everything about this episode.
The conversation starts off about Minter Dial’s new book, and how it has brought up several great points as you progress through it. One of the most thought-provoking ones is the idea of being yourself makes you a better leader. This makes sense, as one of the biggest causes of struggle and pain in life and one’s career is trying to be something you are not, just to accommodate others.
Minter explains that one of the issues that bad leaders face is that they probably do not have the proper people skills for the job. That disconnect, more often than not, stems from their lack of awareness about who they are.
“Essentially, there are probably very few good leaders. And the reason for that isn't that they don't have people skills, its that they haven't done the work to figure out who they truly are. My observation is that a lot of people think they know who they are. They might have a broad idea of who they want to be. But they haven't done the hard work that says more precisely “who I want to be.” “ – Minter Dial
The Ability to be Good
Christopher shares that one of his friends think that his superpower was the ability to go deep in anger. That he was able to embrace and utilize it to make powerful statements, but not let it consume his rationale.
Minter explains that he thinks that people are wired to be good, in general. The reason why we are like that is the need to be together rather than stand alone. The only way that would work is if we are good to each other.
“If you're an evil person, as a CEO, you might do well in the short term. But as soon as you leave the vacuum that you've created, and all the damage that you have sown will cause an impossibility for the follow up act. And so it might be a short term approach. So the bottom line is, I think that we all have the ability to be good.” – Minter Dial
Sure, all people have dirt, a bit of evil and naughtiness in all of us. But it is important to be aware and understand how much of that we should bring to the table. But it’s also not good to hide it all. Showing some of your foils or imperfections shows that you are still human.
Minter Dial on Radical Self-Awareness and Roundedness
Christopher continues with this line of thought, saying that it isn’t radical transparency that CEOs need, but radical self-awareness. To know your own strengths and weakness, so you know what to work on and keep yourself well-rounded. You are also then aware of what you lack, and can surround yourself with people that can fill those gaps.
Minter agrees with this assessment, and adds that sometimes, we tend to exclude people that could attribute to this roundedness. His example for this is journalists. If you’re building a tech team, you’d get the usual suspects: HR, finance, and marketing. But what a bout hiring a journalist? At first, you might think it’s an odd fit. But if you think of what journalists do rather than the industry they came from, they are probably really good at discerning the tastes of the people. They would have to be when writing up articles to entice people to read them.
His point is, learn to diversify in your choices, and it could end up with a more rounded group than you n...
Contrarian malarkey. Can’t get enough.
Between the podcast, Play Bigger book, and Category Pirates Mini-Books… paradigm shifted.
Real. Subscribe. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Most podcasts are carefully edited. Not this one...the conversation that you hear is the conversation that was had. Subscribe to this one YOU WON’T be sorry nor broke. Chris brings on the guests, asks the deeper questions & pulls no punches that can change your entire life. All you have to do is apply it.
People seem to like this, that’s pretty cool