FRIED. The Burnout Podcast is dedicated to burnout awareness and burnout recovery. FRIED is the place to start, or continue, your burnout recovery journey. Cait Donovan, host of FRIED, believes in your ability to heal and lead a more fulfilling, more engaged life and that storytelling is one way to spark a healing journey. This podcast is designed to change lives and is committed to maintaining a standard that is deserving of its listeners. Together, we can #endburnout.
Roxanne Jarrett: ADHD, Burnout and the Tips and Tricks Your Brain Needs to Thrive
“I don’t have to live up to someone else’s expectations of how my brain should be wired,” explains Roxanne Jarrett, Coach for Entrepreneurs with ADHD. Although she realizes this now, Roxanne spent a great part of her life trying to compensate for her ADHD symptoms without ever having received a diagnosis. It wasn’t until more recently that Roxanne put a name to her lived experiences and started developing the supports she needs to avoid becoming burnt out.
Roxanne explains that adults with ADHD are four times more likely to suffer from depression than the general population for just this reason. Many are constantly trying to meet others’ expectations of what they “should” be, even though their neurology prevents them from neatly fitting into this prescribed box.
Roxanne now works as an artist and educator coaching creative entrepreneurs with ADHD. Her signature systems help to prevent burnout by giving motivated innovators the tools and techniques they need to launch their offerings with more joy and less stress. Roxanne says that nothing makes her happier than when her clients develop a “f**k-you” attitude and realize that they don’t have to behave like a neurotypical person in order to find fulfillment and feel joy.
Tune into this week’s episode of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast for a conversation with Roxanne and host Cait Donovan about ADHD and its connection to burnout. Learn why setting timers is an excellent strategy for individuals with ADHD (or anyone, honestly!), why your health is your real wealth, and why learning how to delegate is essential. As Roxanne explains, “Having more moments in your life that you enjoy, that thrill you – that’s your birthright.” This episode is the perfect introduction to several of the tools you need to get started on this path to fulfillment.
• “I finally filled the order….made thousands of dollars. So great problem to have, right? It’s not that my stuff wouldn’t sell. And very promptly had a breakdown and ended up in the psychiatric hospital.” (8:17-8:41)
• “If success is gonna kill me, then maybe I don’t want it. But at the same time there was a big pining for things that I wanted to achieve. But then this thought that, well, maybe I just can’t hack it. Maybe I’m just not built to achieve the types of dreams that I have. My dreams are too big for me.” (12:17-12:37)
• “Being aware of the movement of time and how to measure it and how to look into the future to plan – that is a typical difficulty for people with ADHD.” (21:50-22:03)
• “If you are supremely interested in something, and you have ADHD, you can become so engrossed in it. There is no deficit of attention….But you might not realize how much time passed. That’s the issue.” (30:15-30:31)
• “Children with ADHD, by the time their childhood is over, they’ve been ‘corrected’ by adults at least 20,000 more times on average than a neurotypical child.” (32:13-32:28)
• “A diagnosis: it’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. It’s a place to start, to start to understand how an ADHD brain works if that’s yours and how to live and how to thrive.” (33:44-34:08)
• “I love to see people with ADHD develop a ‘f**k you’ attitude…. ‘I don’t have to be like a neurotypical person, I don’t have to behave like a neurotypical person….And it’s ok to have the types of supports that I have.” (34:30-35:12)
• “Reach out and partner with people. Get accountability partners as much as you can. Until you’re able to delegate the things that you just don’t want to do, connect. And even when you’ve delegated, still connect. Just connect. We’re wired for that.” (41:07-41:28)
• “Having more moments in your life that you enjoy, that thrill you – that’s your birthright. So why go into bus
#straightfromcait: Mind, Body and Soul Burnout Recovery Starts With The Smallest of Changes
Have you ever heard the saying, “If you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life?” Well, I can tell you from personal experience that this is often NOT the case.
This idea sent me down a 6-year path of feeling burnt out, but unable to admit it. I loved what I did, but I also felt tired, angry and worn down all the time. I spent years looking for what was wrong in my life rather than examining the needs of my mind, body and soul.
Then, I started hearing the word “burnout” pop up everywhere. At first, I didn’t even know what it meant. And after extensive research, what I learned was disheartening – that burnout belonged in hospitals to doctors and nurses and in corporations to high-level managers. Burnout didn’t apply to me, the female entrepreneur.
That’s when I started doing some more internal digging. And what I discovered was that burnout is ultimately caused by feelings of unworthiness. I didn’t feel deserving of true fulfillment, and so I never achieved it.
This started me on a journey of making small, manageable changes in my life to rediscover my self-love and self-worth. Four of the things that helped most me along the way were:
• Practicing small boundaries (like allowing myself to pee when I needed to!)
• Getting out of other people’s knots (Listen to the episode to learn about Knot Theory, and how it has radically changed my life.)
• Yoga nidra
• Regularly reviewing my values
My burnout journey taught me that recovery should be slow, gentle and kind. By acknowledging my basic needs and taking care of myself before always tending to others, my feelings of worthiness slowly started to build. When you start to care for yourself in a more authentic way, you AND everyone around you will benefit.
Lastly, I want to remind you that it is never too late to start the process of burnout recovery. No matter how burnt out you are, there is always an opportunity to re-establish your sense of worthiness. It’s all about taking small steps to remind your body, your mind and your spirit what true fulfillment feels like.
• “In my own life, I felt like I had been sold a dream that sounded like this: ‘Work really hard, do your best, follow your heart, let your passions guide you and you’ll never feel like you’re working a day in your life.’ Have you ever heard that? The idea that if you love what you do, it’ll never feel like work? That idea sent me down a 6-year path of being burnt out and unable to admit it.” (2:06-2:32)
• “Burnout, when it’s not caused by workplace bullying, or poor company culture, is related to one underlying element: a feeling of unworthiness. It is impossible to allow fulfilling work to fulfill you if you don’t feel worthy of feeling full.” (4:49-5:15)
• “Small boundaries have nothing to do with another person. They are grace and generosity that I grant myself.” (6:19-6:28)
• “Self-care is necessary for the care of the whole and not selfish at all, as I previously viewed it….When you abandon yourself, you’re harming the people around you, too. You deserve to be cared for, you deserve your own attention, but other people also deserve you to have your own attention.” (10:37-11:01)
• “I thought I knew what my values were, but when I did an exercise to unveil MY core values, what I came up with was different than what I expected. I was living according to values that I had inherited, from both my family and my community. The rules and expectations I was following had nothing (or very little) to do with how I actually wanted to live my life. Getting reacquainted with my OWN values was eye-opening and now something I revisit to check in with regularly because they change, because I change, because the world changes!” (13:00-13:35)
• “My feelings of worthiness started to naturally bui
Jennifer Cassetta: Martial Arts For Protecting Your Mind, Body and Energy
Jennifer Cassetta first experienced burnout after a near death experience on September 11, 2001. At the time, she worked as an event planner at a loft downtown, located only three blocks south of the World Trade Center. On 9/11, she spent the morning frantically searching for shelter amongst smoke and ash, and finally found safety at her local dojo. In the months following, this dojo became the place where Jennifer was able to find the physical, mental, and spiritual grounding she needed to help her cope with her PTSD. After beginning to experience the incredible, multifaceted benefits of her HapKiDo practice, Jennifer decided to make a career out of helping others find similar empowerment through self-defense.
Unfortunately, 9/11 was not Jennifer’s only burnout story. Several years later, Jennifer was still living in New York City and experienced an emotionally traumatic breakup. As a result, she ultimately ended up moving out of NYC to California in order to create the distance and space she needed to heal. It was during this time that Jennifer realized the powerful ability of her martial arts practice to defend her from internal wounds.
Now, Jennifer is a speaker, author and consultant, who empowers audiences around the country through keynotes, self-defense and success coaching. Equipped with her 3rd degree black belt in HapKiDo, Master’s degree in Nutrition and NLP certification, Jennifer helps women release their inner warrior and feel strong, safe and confident from the streets to the boardroom. Jennifer’s first book, Hear Me Roar: How to Defend Your Mind, Body, and Heart against People Who Suck, employs personal anecdotes from her own life to inspire others to take back their power for a lifetime of health and happiness.
Tune into this week’s episode of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast for a conversation with Jennifer Cassetta about burnout, boundaries, and badassery. Learn how to find comfort in confrontation, when to move on from toxic relationships, and how to find compassion for ALL people, even the sucky ones.
• “It became like this metaphor. All I wanted to do was go to that dojo. I started to feel all of these amazing benefits. Physically, my body was getting stronger; mentally, I started to feel more confident again; spiritually, I started to feel grounded and not just like hyper- hyper-sensitive. And I know looking back that that really saved me from gosh knows what else. Obviously, then, the story continues to build an entire career out of wanting to share those benefits, those mental, physical, spiritual benefits with as many people as I could. And the story continues to get me to now where I am speaking about it all over the country.” (6:32-7:13)
• “There’s a lot of principles in HapKiDo that are similar to an Aikido....which is more defensive strategies, basically taking on your opponent’s negative energy, not taking it on but blending with it and redirecting that energy either out into space or back at the attacker. Hapkido has those circular motions and also the ‘I’m gonna kick your ass afterwards.’ So there’s like a very nice balance of the soft and the hard.” (11:26-12:03)
• “Not everybody knows what your boundaries are. And to expect that is impossible, right? So sometimes a nice soft boundary, a nice reminder like, ‘Hey, what you just said, it makes me feel like this. Was that your intention?’ So a softer block can be a redirect of that energy, asking a question, bouncing back a question to the other person, holding their gaze, waiting for an answer, which holds them accountable is an interaction which is soft, yet powerful at the same time. And I think those types of interactions are really important.” (13:47-14:23)
• “Now in my self-defense classes, I teach people if people are going to be overstepping your boundaries or a perso
#straightfromcait - Other Care: The Secret Ingredient That Keeps The Minds, Bodies, and Spirits of Entrepreneurs Healthy
Today, I’m flipping the script and talking about “Other Care” as part of your self-care plan. And before you get your panties in a bunch, I don’t mean taking care of others. I mean letting and paying others to take care of you!
While there is plenty of advice out there about when to hire a virtual assistant, freeing up time in your schedule often isn’t enough! What about the parts of your life beyond work that need a little TLC? Aren’t there other things that you should be delegating out in order to feel more fulfilled?
Unfortunately, I think that there is this new understanding of “self-care” as something you need to do alone. And while self-care is healthy and essential (for me, it’s taking midday baths and taking walks with my dog Flora!), it shouldn’t have to be yet another thing we have to do ourselves.
That’s why this episode is dedicated to what I call “other care” or allowing others to help us heal, relax, and find fulfillment. As an acupuncturist, I have supported thousands of people in their “other care.” The energy and positive intention that we share in a room together creates a healing environment even before any acupuncture occurs! If you’re interested in finding out how that works on an energetic and scientific level, I highly recommend the book Energy Medicine by Jill Blakeway.
Recently, I have found “other care” by returning to acupuncture as a patient. I found an incredible acupuncturist – Kelly Drury in Montclair, NJ – who is supporting me in ways that I can’t support myself. Another healer that has helped me tremendously is Lindsey from La Lune Healing. Lindsay is a reiki practitioner who helped me sleep again after many sleepless nights following my achilles surgery. Salutogenesis Chiropractic is yet another group of healers that I am able to receive “other care” from as soon as I start feeling out of alignment.
Having a healer that you know and trust is essential, no matter who you are. It is especially important for those experiencing burnout, because it’s often easier to let others start doing the work of filling you up when you are incredibly depleted.
I’d love to start celebrating Other Care. I want you to comment on any post this week from this episode and tag your healer. Let’s get their work out there. Let’s tell each other that it’s okay to have background support that isn’t DIRECTLY related to business activities. Let’s normalize outsourcing a portion of healing and stop feeling like we are responsible for ALL the things, ALL the time.
“I believe that as entrepreneurs who are focused on both earning a great income and making a great impact on the world, we need to fill our cups as often as possible. Hiring a VA will take some tasks away, take some things off your plate, and make the liquid in your cup drop slower, but it won’t FILL it back up.” (2:42-3:02) “We’ve seemingly put self-care in yet another category of ‘things we must do ourselves.’ But what if the thing that fills you up most actually comes from allowing someone else to hold space for you, to create a healing environment for you, to support your energy, to fill your cup, so you can go on and change the world the way you imagine?” (3:25-3:48) “The energy we share in a room together really does make a difference. When you allow someone to create a healing space for you, your body enters a parasympathetic nervous state BEFORE any treatment even happens – that means you’re healing before your healer even does anything because of energy and intention.” (3:57-4:19) “I don’t have to be in charge of my care. I have to be involved. I’ve got to show up, I’ve got to pay, I’ve got to make appointments, I’ve got to follow her instructions. But I don’t have to ‘own the task.’ I’ve handed that part over.” (4:4
Dr. Nan Nuessle: Systemic Bullying, Burnout, and Using Communication That Values Speaker and Listener
Dr. Nan Nuessle first realized she was burnt out when she stopped at a stop sign and waited for it to turn green. She didn't even process what she was waiting for until the truck behind her honked. At the time, Dr. Nan was working up to 110 hours per week, chairing the Department of Pediatrics at both a large, multidisciplinary clinic AND a nearby hospital, and raising two children with a husband who wasn't pulling his weight. After realizing how burnt out she had become, Dr. Nan approached the Chief Medical Officer at her clinic and expressed her concerns...only to be told, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" Despite the incredible amount of hours and effort Dr. Nan was putting into her job, she still met with backlash when she sought some basic support.
After this experience, Dr. Nan became a locum physician or traveling physician. This new role helped relieve some of the stress that had been suffocating her in previous positions, since she didn’t feel the same crushing responsibility to keep her employer happy at her own expense. However, throughout her travels, Dr. Nan began to realize how rampant bullying was in the healthcare world. Disguised as “politics,” physicians everywhere were bullied back into line if they ever defied the demands of their administration. This inspired Dr. Nan to begin combating bullying at the organizational level. She founded her own company, Beat Down Burnout, which works to address bullying and burnout from a standpoint of communication, so everyone at a given workplace can feel like a valued member of their team.
Tune into this week’s episode of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast to learn more about how Dr. Nan works to reduce bullying in the workplace using the B.A.N.K. system of Personality Science. We discuss working with narcissists, the benefits and uses of meditation, and how to incorporate the principles of conflict resolution into all of your relationships, so you can meet people where they are.
“I first realized I was burnt out when I was driving home post-call, and I stopped at a four-way stop, and I waited for the sign to turn green.” (1:26-1:35) “I went in to speak with the Chief Medical Officer at the clinic and told him, ‘I think I’m burnt out.’ And he looked at me and said, ‘Well, what are you gonna do about it?’” (2:21-2:29) “Everywhere I went, I saw bullying….Any time a physician stepped out of line of what administration wanted, these physicians were bullied back into line, myself included.” (8:09-8:28) “80% of what occurs with burnout occurs at the organizational level.” (9:51-9:55) “[Bullying] is both communication and action that doesn’t value the speaker or the listener, and it’s also communication and action that singles a person out to be treated differently.” (12:02-12:13) “When I have a patient that I want to do something with that is not what the nurses and the staff are used to doing, I have to go print up three articles that show why it’s going to work….This drives me nuts because I just want to go do it...but I do, every time.” (32:32-33:33) “With this training, I have learned a lot of tools to protect myself. I have learned to do what we call ‘be the cloud.’ So when somebody wants to be a narcissist, you learn to just let it flow through you and go on and be able to do your work. You have to learn at what point you just can’t. But that’s probably 25% [of the time] not 80%.” (38:10-38:39) “Once you’ve been bullied, you become highly sensitive about it. And you sometimes need to know where to go to rebuild your strength, to rebuild your walls, to get the tools to get back to normal. And that’s hard.” (40:33-40:54) “The Hawaiians have an attitude about the guy that cuts you off in traffic. They say, ‘If you don’t let at least two people in on your way to work and a
#straightfromcait: Heal Burnout by Keeping An Eye On Privilege, Trauma, and Your Nervous System
Hey Fried Fans,
This week’s episode has been a long time coming and something that I’ve thought a lot about over the years.
It’s about privilege and the good and bad of how it’s interwoven with burnout.
It is extremely difficult for people that I grew up with to accept that they are the recipients of any sort of privilege and I understand why. Fall River, Massachusetts isn’t a city that dreams are made of. Our police motto is “We’ll Try” and we’ve been high on the list of most heroin per capita since long before the opioid epidemic. It is a downtrodden place that comes with an extreme sense of pride - that pride sometimes feels like the only thing that keeps the city going.
Most families I knew growing up, including my own, struggled to make ends meet, often working multiple jobs to keep the lights on and food in the fridge. Having this as your lifestyle and acknowledging your privilege is a big ask. There is no room for feeling privileged or worrying about how others are disadvantaged when you’re simply trying to survive yourself.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs tells us that unless basic needs are met (basic being defined as: food, shelter, drink, clothing, warmth, and some level of stability) it is nearly impossible to expect anyone to be reaching toward ‘higher’ ideals such as self-actualization and personal growth. I believe that it is in this area of personal growth that one can begin to identify one’s privilege.
At least, that’s how it worked for me.
It wasn’t until I was highly successful that I was able to turn around and realize that my life was easier because of the following factors:
White Skin A 2 parent home Supportive, involved parents that encouraged reading and education A large, well connected extended family A close circle of friends around my parents Always having enough food, a place to live, clean clothes, and heat in the winter Cis gendered In a hetero relationship Able-bodied Sporty physique
None of those things prevented me from burning out. They did make it easier for me to find help when I was burnt out AND they kept me on a burnout cycle because I was comparing my life situation to lives around me and taking note of my luck and my privilege.
It lead to increased feelings of guilt and shame (which burnout has enough of in and of itself) and a lot of beating myself up for not appreciating what I had more, for not being grateful enough, for not using everything I was gifted with to create a life that was fulfilling to me and useful to others.
I believe strongly in recognizing my privilege. I think it’s important because it helps to remind me to leave a piece of my ego at the door. No matter what I’ve accomplished, there have always been things that gave me an edge. It helps me to both take credit for my work AND rest on the fact that it wasn’t ‘all me’.
Back to burnout. When you read the research on burnout, it’s mostly been studied in corporate and hospital settings (read: settings that prefer white skin) and the result of said studies is that the environment, the company, the hospital - is at 80% fault for causing burnout.
When I did my own research, at the bottom, in the depths of what I truly believe sits behind burnout is trauma. Trauma that causes nervous systems to be on high alert which leads to behaviors that burn us out. It doesn’t have to be one singular traumatic event that an after school special would be made about - it can be an adult with unstable and inconsistent emotional states, it can be a constant cutting down of your self worth through comments about your clothes, style, way of being, body, it can be emotional disconnection and abandonment - even from parents that were physically there. It can be a society that thinks of you as less than. It can be living in skin that makes you more likely to be not believ
CAIT IS GREAT!
This podcast is part of my personal self care routine, as well as one of the shows I recommend to my clients. Burnout is an occupational hazard for caring humans and those who have trouble setting limits and boundaries (hand raised) Cait is wise, funny and tackles a challenging topic in an engaging way. Both her solo shows and her guest interviews are value-packed and full of practical wisdom.
I’m in tears
This podcast is the greatest gift. I am in the throws of burnout and have just now really accepted it. And that it is physical, not just being tired and sick. Thank you.
PS - I listen to podcast all the time. This is the first written review I’ve given. It has impacted me that much.
Absolutely Love Cait
I love the centered awareness of this podcast. Feel of self care