Imperfect Mens Club Mark Aylward & Jim Gurule

Mark introduces the idea of moving from where you are to where you want to be. How we are tempted to stay in our comfort zone and how our focus in men. We are attempting to help men get more comfortable with being vulnerable. He goes on to lay out the possible paths of staying “comfortable” versus striving for more
Jim jumps in and brings in our flywheel and the notion that most of this comes down to self awareness.  Jim talks about listening to a recent podcast with Tim Ferris where he discusses his current place in life and how different it is from his younger days
Mark uses Jim as an example of someone who strives for more. You either choose to get better or you stay comfortable
Jim returns the compliment to Mark as being aspirational as well
Mark talks about never getting rid of fear, but continuing to try to overcome it.  Once you move into fear, things start moving forward. He suggest’s that progress I not linear
The guys are using a graphic that shows stage of growth  comfort - fear - learning -growth
They bring Tim Ferris back into the discussion and how he focuses now on quality and not quantity. People and not money
Mark brings up the Harvard Study of men and their happiness
Jim quotes Ferris “think of projects as experiments”. It’ll never be perfect…just put it out there
It’s about content, not polish. Mark shares his editing approach - simple and quick
Jim shares some more about the future of podcasting and Mark shares his point of view
Mark brings up Tim Ferris’ “Tools Of Titans” and Jim talks about how he loves to interview people
The guys disagree on the notion of defining what success looks like and then discover it’s not a disagreement, it’s a misunderstanding. After clarification - good point. Let’s agree on what success means or what words mean before we move forward
The guys go back and dig into the graphic. They are seeing it from two different vantage points and the discussion brings context. After contextualizing things the guys agree and the discussion progresses and gets interesting
Jim brings back up the previous episode and dopamine and adds that as context   Dopamine hits come from fear and excitement among the things
Mark recalls their  just put it outconversation they had about having nothing and having everything   Jim expresses some “envy” about Mark uncertain future and Mark returns the favor. Both guys share their perspectives about having everything and nothing
They move in to a discussion of risk and the notion of moving from comfort to fear and purpose and the reality that life moves back and forth The value of hanging out with interesting people and developing the ability to solve problems.
Jim goes back to the graphic.  Mark brings his faith and what he is supposed to give back. His purpose is being of service
The topic of goals comes up. Mark thinks of metrics and how he doesn’t like specific goals. Now he sets process and consistency goals. Jim likes the word ‘objectives”
Mark says goals are specific numbers and objectives are destinations. Interesting discussion
Mark says he thinks you have to have aspirations
Jim suggests that maybe it’s a mindset. He feels like he’s moved from what “he” wants and what “we” want. The guys talk about how sports and sales drove their goal driven somewhat selfish actions, which drove success, but maybe wasn’t the best way to be
Mark tells the story about his most recent coach/program and his evolution around this concept - we all have a judge of ourselves, others and circumstances. The other side is your sage. Fascinating stuff
Jim brings up a few of his experiences with some other “next level” guys - self awareness
Mark says he feels like he is reacting to both his stage in life and the circumstances around him   He feels an obligation to help.  Jim agrees. “You have an obligation to let that out”. He circles back to the graphic. It won’t be perfect, 
Civ

Mark starts off with the topics of personal responsibility, self accountability and pride and how they stem from self awareness
He talks about his older brother’s background and a story he shared with him
Mark wrote an article about the story and then thought it would make a great episode
Jim liked the article and agrees that we all f**k up.  Jim has his own story he’ll share too
Mark reminds the audience that The Imperfect Mens Club has a newsletter on LinkedIn
Mark shares his younger brother’s circumstances as the real root of this topic and explains why
Mark starts to tell the story
It’s about an F-15 pilot that his brother flew with and a situation he got himself into
It involves a mission and what happened when it was coming to an end and it was time to go home
He loses track of his fuel consumption and is faced with a few choices
The guys comment back and forth speculating about what he’s thinking and his options
Mark shares his opinion on the emotion of the moment and how the pilot’s mind was working in the decision making process
Jim offers his opinion on what might have been going on in the pilots head and the reflects on how we all have these moments and how we choose to respond
Jim begins to share his story of being the guy who picked up the phone for his buddy and his divorce
Mark shares his Will Rogers quote and how we should live our lives
Mark’s divorce story comes up and the guys go back and forth with compare and contrast
How we process big problems and the myriad of emotions.  Shame, fear, pride, apology repercussions
Mark’s dad ’s life lesson “What do you do when an engine catches on fire?”
Mark talks about what happens when bad things confront you for the first time
The guys shift to how hard, but good it is to apologize when you really f****d up
Jim brings his friend back up - he had to apologize to his daughter
Mark says it’s hard for him to apologize
Mark relates this concept to projects in business and his experience with people not sharing mistakes until it’s “to late”
They go back to the pilot story and speculate on what happened to him after he landed and what could have been
Jim reminds us from the last episode about the three calls he took from three different guys struggling with the same issue
Jim then recounts a time he was struggling with depression and made a call. He gets a little emotional recalling the story
We all get punched in the nuts - when you take one of these calls you lead with empathy
Mark says we all make these calls and we all take these calls - the power of questions…”What’s going on”
Jim brings back up his call from his friend yesterday who’s in this bad divorce
Jim digs into marriage and how it’s the only license that doesn’t renew or expire - very interesting
Jim essentially helped his friend reframe the situation. Was it a failure or a success that came to an end?
Mark says when you admit to your mistake you gain respect
Apologizing, I f****d up, I don’t know what to do…
Jim says it’s also a cleansing. It flushes out and you become a better person
When you hold on to a f**k up it eats you alive
Jim says that’s what disease is
Mark connects stress to disease
Mark reminds listeners about the IMC newsletter on LinkedIn and encourage listeners to check it out
Jim repeats the connection to LinkedIN and how LinkedIn is melding with personal and professional development
Mark agrees - this melding breeds empathetic leadership among other things - Professional you is personal you
Mark goes back and summarizes the pilot story and asks, “what happens when he goes home?”

Mark introduces mindfulness as the topic and says he believes people who practice mindfulness are by nature self aware. He also suggests that most people are not self aware
Jim agrees and mentions the current mental health crisis
Jim reflects on his current state. He feels like he has a grey cloud over him
Loneliness is real
Mark talks about how divided we are. Mark says there are a lot of factors today, including Covid and the current wars going on
Mark shares how he responds to negative emotion
Jim brings up suicide - 55,000 per year - 80% are men
Mark brings up Jordan Petersons position on it being a mans world
Jim brings in dopamine - external and internal influences that impact our levels of dopamine. He cites a study that says men lose as much as 50% of their dopamine levels as they age
Jim brings up a few things that can help with  dopamine
Mark mentions George Mumford and Andrew Huberman as experts in this stuff
Both guys share some ideas that they know about and or use to stay mindful and raise dopamine. Mark shares his morning routine and expands on his Wim Hof breathing routine and his meditation routine
Jim mentions that he’s reading George Mumford’s latest book about his work with high performance athletes. He uses the term “second wind”
Mark brings up Wim Hof’s position that we are all capable of far more than we think
Jim shares more about Mumford’s book
Mark reminds us of the “you either get bitter or you can get better”. He says he sustains his good habits because he chooses things that he likes, don’t take much time and are simple
Jim tells his story about his latest patent approval process that made him feel better for a few days
Mark shares some dopamine “hacks” from and article Jim found - good versus bad dopamine
Mark shares his yoga experience - why he started and how it helps him
Mark goes back to the topic of loneliness. You can be lonely in the company of other people. He was very lonely during the last few years of his marriage
Jim brings up how boredom can do the same thing
Mark shares how a major reason people leave jobs is no longer learning new things
Mark feels like boredom makes him think lazy - If you’re bored just do something positive - move, walk, get some sun…
It’s helpful to consistently celebrate small wins
Developing a growth mindset - turn your failures into learning opportunities
Mark shares how helpful his current morning routine has beed to his happiness
He shares how important exercise has been for him
Mark ends with some encouragement about how many simple, free, quick tools are available if you just look
Jim ends with the importance of hydration and breathing
Mark shares his hydration protocol and ends by saying that all of this stuff is free, simple and easy to do
 
 

Mark introduces the topic of confidence and mentions Jim’s pre-show comment about getting older and feeling less able to impact his future or the overall future of “things”
Mark mentions how anxious he felt at his 60th birthday party and how he feels like his cause of that same feeling is age but also because the world is crazier now too
Jim starts by sharing his thoughts about his struggles with confidence and his ability to make an impact
He cites AI, division and media as sources of his “dark cloud”
Mark brings up leadership and that we don’t have many leaders.  Jim agrees and both guys express their disappointment in our current President.
Jim brings up the LSU/Iowa national anthem issue as an example of us not going in the right direction
Jim compares leadership to parenting…it’s modeling
Mark says good leaders are selfless and their words and actions are the same.  He says our current leaders are saying and doing different things
Then they bring back up the LSU/Iowa issue. Jim mentions the LSU head coach and asks Mark for more details. Mark say the media is stoking the racism component
Mark suggests that our kids are not confident about our future and the anxiety it creates
Mark talks about his childhood and how he doesn’t remember being anxious as a kid
Jim cites the hypocrisy of one side being criticized and the other not
Mark brings up history and how this generation doesn’t know history
Jim says we’re rewriting history
Mark brings up the Francis Scott Key bridge collapse
The obsession with dividing us - affects our confidence in our future
Mark asks why this is happening - control. Covid was control. The election fraud was control
What about confidence in the US dollar
Mark shifts to “what do we do about this?”  He goes inside and brings up his faith.  A higher power
Jim brings up the Easter holiday and what it means. He asks Mark’s opinion  from his Catholic background Mark talks about his faith
Mark feels compelled to help the people around him with their confidence
Mark talks about wisdom versus knowledge and the constitution
Jim tells two stories about calls he had last week with two younger people struggling with confidence and certainty. Completely unrelated with almost the exact same questions. “There’s something going on in the air right now”. What’s next?
A lack of confidence in our leaders and future
The guys bring up how they coach people up with their confidence with answers and advice
Success breeds confidence
Mark talks about how he regains his own confidence
Jim says we seek out “trusted” leaders. He bring the Wheel up on his screen and we talk about the 5 parts of life. Todays discussion falls into the Worldview category
Jim tells his story about his coaching call from last week and how he leveraged our wheel in his coaching
Mark says the wheel helps with any kind of coaching
We’re all in this together - everyone has issues. It’s about smoothing the ups and downs. Hopefully going up overall
Jim mentions “alignment” and talks about how isolated we’ve become.  The world needs everybody
Mark mentions the Harvard study of men and what makes men happy.  The number and depth of their friendships
The division today isolates and that makes us unhappy. The unknown is the worst. Uncertainty takes our confidence away
Jim thinks the devices (phones) have contributed to our isolation
Mark speak to how deep the division is based on your political choices
Mark shares his confidence ups and downs and how he gets it back
Jim brings up the word indifference and Mark’s word is apathy. The opposite of love is not hate,  It’s apathy
Jim think young people are becoming indifferent and it’s concerning
Mark mentions having a loved one who is hopeless and he’s trying to help
Jim struggles to remember a quote about hope:)
Gift somebody hope for the future
Mark says find somebody you can help with their confidence toda

Mark makes the introduction and connects today’s topic, immigration to the IMC flywheel from the self out to Worldview
He says it’s a polarizing topic and he also cite the importance of what words mean.  Specifically “illegal immigration”
Jim says immigration pushes a lot of buttons. Jim agrees it’s connected to Worldview on our flywheel
Jim ha the perspective of having played rugby with guys from all over the world
When Jim meets first generation immigrants, he thanks them
Then Jim self reflects on his grandmother’s family who were Swiss Italian and talks about the connection that took place who he recently went back ti visit
Mark says most of us are only a generation or two away from immigrants.  Then he talks habit about his Irish background and how the Irish and Italians were treated very poorly back in the 20’s and 30’s in Boston where his dad are up. The Irish and Italians bonded in defense and over common traits like Catholicism and story telling
Mark brings up his neighbors house building project. There were 2 white guys and 15 hispanics. He didn’t know who was illegal or legal. They all were polite, happy and working their asses off
Jim reflects on his dinner the night before, which prompted this discussion.  A Bosnian couple who came here after flying the war, went to Spain and then came here.  Very successful and patriotic. The wife is a teacher in So Cal and she has a very interesting take on the “immigrants of today” and how different they are
Jim asked her opinion - She said 30 kids recently showed up without English skills or any education at all. They are unable to handle the influx. She also said the whole issue has become political
Jim says this has clearly gotten worse under the Biden administration
Mark reflects on his experience working with immigration employment lawyers. The process and cost are absurd
The Mark gives the discussion the context of how w are making decisions as a country now without any concern for mid and long term impact.  We do it with immigration, green energy, climate change…everything
Mark says how unfair these policies are to our education, healthcare, law enforcement. It’s going to break our systems
Mark brings up the hispanic young man who is on Tiki’s Tok recruiting, by telling immigrants, “come on over, you’ll get free shit standing in front of his new house and new car with his new phone…recruiting!
Jim brings back up his Bosnian couple.  How grateful they are versus how entitled this new generation of immigrants
The guys agree that entitlement is a huge problem for everyone. “What happened to fortitude”
Mark says you can’t force behaviors. You can have laws and rules, but you have to enforce them
Jim speaks as a Californian - “these kids are revenue devices”
Jim talks about the school system - you can’t discipline these kids anymore so the behavior gets out of hand but the government wants the revenue so they can’t kick em out
The teachers are quitting. Everything’s OK and no-one gets punished
Jim brings up the Teacher union and how feckless they are
Both guys want the old way back - let the kids fight it out
The guys bring up the crime issue.
They both agree that a simple process should in place to screen and track. How is this going to impact the election?
Mark says the politicians are doing what they always do - obfuscation and b******t
Mark addresses the executive order that Trump signed and Biden overwrote it day one.  Then he talks about how bills work   Stuffing other things in a bill and calling it an immigration bill
The guys have a good laugh about Don Lemon and the media - disingenuous
The media is a huge part of the problem and our “leaders” are doing nothing
The guys share positive immigrant stories
Mark shares his brothers Iranian friend who are in love with America and are both successful doctors and very grateful. They didn’t understand how we don’t understand the

Mark brings up the topic - stoicism as a leadership guide . He reads the definition
Virtue - wisdom, courage, moderation and justice
Mark references the article and video series he’s created around stoicism and leadership
Jim shares his thoughts - He brings up his father’s death…and life. Notes to himself that were stoic
He shares how he reflects on some of his dad’s notes and shares some
Life is how you react to things. We have very little control over much
Mark identifies stoicism versus victimhood
Jim feels true stoics don’t talk about being stoic. He begins to address the similarity of religion
Mark mentions Seneca and Marcus Aurelius
Self reflection and leadership
Mark starts to deliver his 10 stoic leadership traits
Jim mentions Ryan Holiday and Mark mentions Tim Ferris
1.  Focus on what you can control…almost nothing. How I react - How I listen - What I do
How you respond to things - this also decreases worry and stress that comes from worry
2.  Learning as a lifelong journey.  This makes you interesting, creates authority and credibility
Mark brings up Bill Clinton and Jim shares his Clinton story.
Jim brings up unlearning and how important it is to drop certain beliefs
3. Self accountability - How it fits in so closely with the foundation of the club.  It’s not sustainable to be around victims. Mark shares his recruiter perspective about people’s stories - are they blaming or taking responsibility
4.  How important failure is. Mark mentions the fear, risk, failure, experience, wisdom cycle.  Jim mentions his Silicon Valley environment and failure and then talks about his fear during his rugby days. Both guys get deeper into risk and appreciate the difference between knowledge and wisdom
5. Integrity appears in your actions when no one is looking. Actions versus words
Jim cites the difference between integrity and morality Integrity os doing what you say you’re going to do…even if it’s bad
6.  Mindfulness is paying attention with intention. Jim asks Mark for a definition of mindfulness. Being present and respectful.  Mark reflects on their partnership with respect to respect and mindfulness. Both guys reflect on their individual mindfulness. Mark shares his Henry Ford dinner story. Both guys smile about making people smile
7. Forgiveness for others and yourself. Jim brings it back to the wheel.   Mark shares his daily spiritual practice and how he beats himself up. Jim shares his self doubt story
8.  Discipline comes incrementally with consistency. Mark talks about his inner conflict with self doubt around discipline. Show up every day. Jim mentions how close addiction is to self discipline - he shares his social media “addiction”. Like sugar to the brain. Moderation is a form of discipline. Media also can make you stupid - propaganda
9.  Courage is not the absence of fear.  It’s moving forward in spite of the fear. Most people are fearful. Some do things anyway. Motivation comes from doing the right thing and can be acting in service of others. Mark mentions the video he saw about an alligator attack
10. Empathy is treating people how THEY want to be treated. Empathy versus sympathy. How do you want to be led?  Treated?  Jim says you need to work on being empathetic. Hardship creates empathy
Mark brings up his dad’s Catholic belief and how he is also a stoic. Religion and stoicism are not mutually exclusive. They exist well together and apart
Jim’s shares his recent interaction with a recent football graduate. The last bell - The last whistle. “You’re not referable”. I need to get to know you. The kid didn’t follow-up. Didn’t show up
Mark reflects on Jim’s story and compliments him on his wisdom. 3 strikes and you’re out
Jim’s quote. “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth, When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear”. - Thomas Sowell
We’re not being truthful enough
Mark wraps u