64 episodes

Rob Hahn a.k.a. The Notorious R.O.B. and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.

Industry Relations with Rob Hahn and Greg Robertson Rob Hahn and Greg Robertson

    • Technology
    • 4.9 • 27 Ratings

Rob Hahn a.k.a. The Notorious R.O.B. and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.

    Industry Relations Episode 64: A New Approach to Antitrust Regulations—with Michael Wurzer

    Industry Relations Episode 64: A New Approach to Antitrust Regulations—with Michael Wurzer

    The DOJ pulling out of its antitrust settlement with NAR seems like bad news for the industry.
     
    But what if it could be an opportunity?
     
    Michael Wurzer is the CEO of FBS, the leading innovator of MLS technology. Prior to FBS, Michael spent seven years practicing law in California and Minnesota, working in corporate law, litigation and serving as Assistant General Counsel for Aveda.
     
    On this episode of Industry Relations, Michael shares his unique perspective on the DOJ withdrawal, discussing the Biden administration’s intent to refocus on antitrust principles and the need for smaller, independent businesses to ensure competition in any sector.
     
    Michael explains how organized real estate might engage with regulators, describing how MLSs could serve as labs of experimentation to promote transparency and competition in the industry.
     
    Listen in to understand the challenge of overcoming what Rob calls the regulatory mindset and find out how real estate can take an offensive posture with the FTC, working together to innovate around Brandeis and Patman’s antitrust ideals.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    The intent of the Biden administration to refocus on antitrust principles
    Why industries need smaller, independent businesses to ensure competition
    How the competitive nature of the MLS benefits NAR in negotiating with the DOJ
    Why Michael sees an opportunity for the industry to engage with regulators
    How MLSs might serve as labs of experimentation to promote transparency and competition
    The concerns around Ben Harris’ advocacy for delinking of commissions
    How a willingness to experiment would be a good defense for government intervention
    Rob’s concern that the regulatory mindset won’t allow for such a nuanced approach
    Why Michael doesn’t see NAR or large MLSs as Goliaths to be broken up
     
    Connect with Michael:
     
    FBS
    Michael on Twitter
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
     
    FBS Summit
    Justice Department Withdraws from Settlement with the National Association of Realtors
    Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy by Matt Stoller
    Chicago School of Economics
    ‘Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox’ by Lina M. Khan
    Robinson-Patman Act
    Biden’s Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy
    REX on Industry Relations EP055
    ‘Anticompetition in Buying and Selling Homes’ by Roger P. Alford and Benjamin H. Harris
    Rob’s Post on Ben Harris
    Michael’s Presentation on the Expanding MLS
    British Columbia’s Shadow Flipping Controversy
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 49 min
    Industry Relations Episode 63: A Heated Debate on the Political Power of NAR (Or Lack Thereof)

    Industry Relations Episode 63: A Heated Debate on the Political Power of NAR (Or Lack Thereof)

    The Department of Justice pulled out of its proposed settlement with NAR and President Biden has issued an executive order addressing ‘exclusionary practices’ in real estate. Now, more than ever, NAR will need to exercise its political power to fight off FTC regulations. But how much political pull does the organization really have?
     
    On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob explains why he thinks NAR is the weakest it’s ever been politically, discussing how changes to the Code of Ethics harmed the organization’s unity and what that might mean for contributions to RPAC.
     
    Greg offers the counterargument that NAR’s record-high membership is a reflection of its political capital, and our hosts explore the concerns professional staff and academics in DC have raised around real estate for the last 20 years.
     
    Listen in to understand how the insanity of the 2020 housing market might influence the way the public thinks about real estate and learn what you should be doing to combat potential government regulations or plan for lower commissions moving forward.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    Why Rob thinks NAR is the weakest it’s ever been politically
    Greg’s counterargument that NAR’s record-high membership is a reflection of its political capital
    What a conversation between an NAR lobbyist and the chief of staff for a senator might sound like
    How changes to the NAR Code of Ethics harmed the organization’s unity (and what that might mean for RPAC contributions)
    How NAR’s head lobbyist’s connection to the Trump organization might impact her ability to get the REALTOR agenda through
    The concerns professional staff and academics in DC have raised re: real estate for the last 20 years
    How the insanity of the 2020 housing market might influence the way the public thinks about real estate
    Rob and Greg’s challenge to listeners to engage their membership in conversations around potential regulations
    The benefit of contingency planning for lower commissions
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
     
    Justice Department Withdraws from Settlement with the National Association of Realtors
    Biden’s Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy
    NAR Code of Ethics & Professional Standards Policy Changes
    REALTORS Political Action Committee
    Phillip Cantrell on The Notorious POD EP017
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 46 min
    Industry Relations Episode 062: The DOJ Reneged on Its Settlement with NAR—What Happens Next?

    Industry Relations Episode 062: The DOJ Reneged on Its Settlement with NAR—What Happens Next?

    Early this month, in an unprecedented move, the Department of Justice pulled out of its proposed settlement with NAR. And soon thereafter, President Biden issued an Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy.
    An executive order with a specific clause concerning ‘exclusionary practices in the brokerage or listing of real estate.’ So, what’s going to happen next?
    On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss what Biden’s executive order means for real estate, describing the kind of regulations the FTC might impose on the industry in 2022.
    They address the influx of institutional capital in real estate in the last two years, exploring what that could mean for buyer’s agent commissions and why it actually might be good for NAR’s renegotiation with the DOJ.
    Listen in for insight on the need for price discrepancy between a good and bad buyer’s agent and get Rob and Greg’s opposing predictions on how the government might change the rules around cooperation and compensation—or not.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
    How the DOJ reneged on its settlement with NAR and why it’s a big deal
    What Biden’s executive order on competition means for real estate
    The ideas re: concentration of power behind the Bradeis movement
    Why Rob thinks the real estate lobby is at its weakest right now
    Greg’s prediction that mortgage banks will step in to keep buyer’s agent commissions the same
    The influx of institutional capital in real estate in the last two years (and why that might be good for NAR’s renegotiation)
    The number of new business models designed to help consumers buy, sell and finance homes
    Rob’s view that institutional investors will support the elimination of buyer’s agent commissions
    The lack of price discrepancy between a good and bad buyer’s agent in real estate
    Rob’s thought experiment re: whether the rich need buyer’s agents
    Rob’s prediction that the FTC will issue proposed regulations for real estate
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website 
    Resources:
    Blockchain and Real Estate on Notorious POD EP022
    Propy
    Justice Department Withdraws from Settlement with the National Association of Realtors
    Rob’s Post on the DOJ Pulling Out of Its Settlement with NAR, Part 1
    Rob’s Post on the DOB Pulling Out of Its Settlement with NAR, Part 2
    Biden’s Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy
    ‘Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox’ by Lina M. Khan
    ‘BlackRock Is Not Ruining the US Housing Market’ in The Atlantic
    Rob’s Response to The Atlantic Article
    Knock Home Swap
    Orchard
    Tomo
    Rob’s Post: Do the Rich Need Buyer’s Agents?
     
    Our Sponsors: 
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 50 min
    Industry Relations Episode 61: Diagnosing Zillow Angst – with Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group

    Industry Relations Episode 61: Diagnosing Zillow Angst – with Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group

    Zillow has been consumer-centric since its inception in 2006. And in the early days, the tech company didn’t pay much attention to agents. Now Zillow realizes that reducing friction for consumers means helping agents respond to online leads and schedule showings, for example. But is it too late to earn the industry’s trust?
     
    Errol Samuelson is the Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow Group. With 25 years of experience in proptech, he served in leadership roles at Realtor.com, Top Producer Systems and Move, Inc. before joining Zillow in 2014. On this episode of Industry Relations, Errol sits down with Rob and Greg to explain why Zillow is acquiring ShowingTime and explore what’s behind the industry’s volatile reaction to the announcement.
     
    Errol discusses the real estate industry’s distrust of Zillow, acknowledging the frustration the tech company has caused over the years and assuring us that his team will not misuse ShowingTime data. Listen in to understand how Errol thinks about CoStar as a competitor and learn why he believes an industry without cooperation and compensation is not good for agents, brokers or consumers.
     
    What’s Discussed:  
     
    Why the real estate industry went apeshit over Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime
    Zillow’s assurance that ShowingTime will remain an open platform with a strict privacy policy
    What problem Zillow is trying to solve by acquiring ShowingTime
    Errol’s insight on the rumor that Zillow bought ShowingTime to keep it out of CoStar’s hands
    How Errol thinks about the fact that people assume Zillow is lying
    Errol’s acknowledgement of the frustrations Zillow has caused agents over the years and how the company’s behavior may have amplified the industry’s distrust
    The possibility that social class and age are a factor in the industry’s mistrust of Zillow
    The focus of Zillow’s Q4 earnings call (Zillow Offers vs. streamlining the consumer experience overall)
    Why innovation in the lending space is limited by federal regulations
    The unique opportunity Zillow has to innovate around ownership models
    Errol’s thoughts on CoStar as a competitor and why CoStar’s success hinges on the government putting an end to cooperation and compensation
    Connect with Errol:
    Errol at Zillow
    Errol on LinkedIn
    Errol on Twitter
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
    Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors
    Zillow’s Press Release on Acquiring ShowingTime
    ShowingTime
    Steve Murray at REAL Trends
    CoStar News
    Greg on Twitter
    Zillow’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
    Zillow Offers
    Nick Bailey at RE/MAX
    Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap
    Trulia
    Dotloop
    Jay Thompson on Inman
    Susan Daimler at Zillow
    Rob’s 2020 List of the Seven Most Interesting People in Real Estate
    Zillow Home Loans
    Divvy
    Federal Regulations on Mortgage Finance
    REA Group
    Andrew Florance at CoStar
    Rob’s CoStar Red Dot Report
    CoStar’s Q4 2020 Earnings Call
    Rob’s Interview with Joe Rand
     
    Our Sponsors: 
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 51 min
    Industry Relations Episode 60: Unpacking the Panic Around Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime – with Nick Bailey, Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX

    Industry Relations Episode 60: Unpacking the Panic Around Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime – with Nick Bailey, Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX

    As the real estate industry has evolved, we’ve been trained to focus on who owns the data. And Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime has many concerned about sharing their data with the proptech giant. But what if hoarding your data is not the only way to compete with a company like Zillow? What if it’s not really about access to the data but what you do with it?
    Nick Bailey is the Chief Customer Officer at RE/MAX. With nearly 25 years of industry experience, Nick served as an agent, broker and proptech vendor before becoming the head of a major real estate franchise. On this episode of Industry Relations, Nick joins Rob and Greg to share his take on Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime and what’s behind the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction.
     
    Nick offers insight on how the data Zillow acquired was already publicly available, explaining why that information doesn’t necessarily give the tech company a competitive advantage and reminding us that it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services to the industry at large. Listen in for Nick’s perspective on what we can do to improve the process of buying or selling a home for consumers and find out why you shouldn’t panic about Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime.
    What’s Discussed:  
    Nick’s background as an agent, broker, tech vendor and head of a major real estate franchise
    Why Nick sees Zillow’s acquisition of ShowingTime as one tech company acquiring another to make the process of buying and selling homes easier for consumers
    How ShowingTime’s market share influenced the industry’s emotionally-charged reaction to its acquisition
    Nick’s argument that the data Zillow has acquired was already publicly available
    How Nick addresses the objection that the ShowingTime acquisition forces agents and brokers to provide Zillow with a competitive advantage
    How it’s not unusual for companies at scale to offer various products and services (e.g.: RE/MAX’s acquisition of Motto Mortgage)
    What Nick is doing to educate agents around the spirit of cooperation in the industry
    How Nick thinks about whether Zillow is a RE/MAX competitor
    What the real estate industry can do to improve the fragmented process of buying or selling a home
    Nick’s insight on what differentiates RE/MAX in a competitive industry that includes a growing number of iBuyers
    The trend toward a greater concentration of power among fewer agents and how that might contribute to the panic around Zillow
    Nick’s advice for MLS, franchisor and large brokerage CEOs on using data to identify trends and create contingency plans accordingly
     
    Connect with Nick:
     
    Nick at RE/MAX
    Nick on LinkedIn
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
    Resources:
    ShowingTime’s Press Release on Its Acquisition by Zillow
    Nick’s Video on Zillow’s Acquisition of ShowingTime
    Market Leader
    Rob’s Post on Zillow, ShowingTime & Paranoid Realtors
    First App
    Steve Murray at REAL Trends
    Motto Mortgage
    NAR Code of Ethics
    We Are RE/MAX on Facebook
    Brad Inman’s Piece on Zillow & ShowingTime
    Gary Keller’s 2021 Family Reunion Vision Speech Recap
    The Art of the CMA: Win Hearts, Minds, and Loyalty by Mastering Real Estate’s Most Versatile Tool by Greg Robertson 
    Dave Liniger at RE/MAX
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 54 min
    Industry Relations Episode 59: Forecasting a Hot Housing Market in 2021 – with Jeff Tucker, Senior Economist at Zillow

    Industry Relations Episode 59: Forecasting a Hot Housing Market in 2021 – with Jeff Tucker, Senior Economist at Zillow

    Zillow’s Economic Research Team just released its forecast for 2021, and they expect it to be the best year for home sales since 2005. In fact, Zillow’s number crunchers believe that a whopping 6.8M existing homes will close next year, marking the biggest one-year gain in sales (nearly 22%!) since the early 1980’s.
     
    Jeff Tucker is a Senior Economist at Zillow Research where he studies the causes and consequences of changing supply in the housing market. On this episode of Industry Relations, Jeff joins Rob and Greg to discuss the inputs his team used to make its predictions for 2021 and describe how current growth differs from what we saw at the height of the bubble in 2005.
    Jeff offers insight around the demographics of who’s buying and selling homes right now, sharing his take on why the low millennial marriage rate may not impact the housing market as much as we think and how feasible it is for young, working-class Americans to afford homeownership. Listen in to understand how COVID facilitated the single-family home inventory crash and get an economist’s perspective on why the housing market will stay hot through 2021.
    What’s Discussed:  
    The inputs Jeff’s team used to predict that 6.8M existing homes will close in 2021
    How current growth differs from what we saw at the height of the bubble in 2005
    The decrease in the share of income spent on mortgages since 2018
    Why the iBuyer’s mission to create a frictionless experience is so important moving forward
    Jeff’s insight around the demographics of who’s buying and selling homes
    The distinction between family and household formation
    Why the low millennial marriage rate may or may not impact the housing market
    How COVID facilitated a single-family home inventory crash
    Why Jeff sees appreciation slowing down by the end of 2021
    Jeff’s take on the feasibility of homeownership for working-class millennials
    How the skyrocketing US money supply might impact the real estate market
     
    Connect with Jeff:
     
    Zillow Research
    Jeff at Zillow
    Jeff on Twitter
     
    Connect with Rob and Greg: 
     
    Rob’s Website
    Greg’s Website
     
    Resources:
     
    Lone Wolf Technologies
    Zillow’s Forecast for 2021
    NAR Data on Single Women Home Buyers
    Pew Research on Millennials & Marriage
     
    Our Sponsors: 
     
    Cloud Agent Suite
    Notorious VIP

    • 43 min

Customer Reviews

4.9 out of 5
27 Ratings

27 Ratings

Joel Custodio ,

Love it!

Huge fan of both Rob and Gregg , they truly care for what is best for the RE industry

FrumpyD ,

Great insight

Pleas keep discussing current RE issues. Best public thought exercise in RE.

Adam (Muzikm4n) ,

Fantastic podcast

Great chemistry and informative podcast!

Top Podcasts In Technology

Listeners Also Subscribed To