7 episodes

45-minute conversations and investigations with today's leading thinkers, authors, experts, doctors, healers, scientists about life's biggest questions: Why do we do what we do? How can we come to know and love ourselves better? How can we come together to heal and build a better world?

Pulling The Thread with Elise Loehnen Elise Loehnen and Cadence13

    • Education
    • 5.0 • 188 Ratings

45-minute conversations and investigations with today's leading thinkers, authors, experts, doctors, healers, scientists about life's biggest questions: Why do we do what we do? How can we come to know and love ourselves better? How can we come together to heal and build a better world?

    Healing Male Depression (Terry Real)

    Healing Male Depression (Terry Real)

    “Before our boys have learned to read, they have already read the stoic code of masculinity and are conforming to it.” says Terry Real, world-renowned family therapist, speaker, best-selling author and founder of the Relational Life Institute, where he offers workshops for couples, individuals, parents and therapists. He is also a dear friend. While he’s best known for his couples work, decades ago, he wrote the landmark book on male depression, which I cannot recommend enough. It’s called, I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, and with it, Real established himself as one of the most respected voices in the treatment of men and the healing of their relationships with the world. In this episode, we talk about why depression is “illegal” for men, the cultural programming of boys, and forced detachment in the name of autonomy. Our culture of individualism, Real says, has done as much damage as our culture of patriarchy—leaving men little room for the type of connection and relationality that we humans live for. He leaves us with the steps for deprogramming ourselves from patriarchal thinking and parenting as well as the ways in which we can support the men in our lives in service of deeper connection and the pursuit of greater relational joy. 


    Exploring Terry’s theory of male depression…(2:30)

    The cultural programming of boys…(12:50)

    Active trauma, passive trauma, and the severing of connection in the name of autonomy …(19:50) 

    Icarus syndrome and learning to find relational joy…(37:08)

    Terry's Website
    I Don't Want To Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression
    How Can I Get Through To You?: Closing the Intimacy Gap Between Men and Women
    The New Rules Of Marriage: What You Need to Know to Make Love Work
    Take Terry's Online Course - Staying in Love: The Art of Fierce Intimacy

    Find an RLT Certified Therapist Near You 

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    • 58 min
    Women, Food & Hormones (Sara Gottfried, M.D.)

    Women, Food & Hormones (Sara Gottfried, M.D.)

    Our guest today is Dr. Sara Gottfried - a Harvard educated doctor, scientist, researcher, mother, and seeker with 25 years of experience practicing precision, functional, and integrative medicine. Gottfried specializes in root cause analysis, as she firmly believes that the greatest health transformations unfold when you address the root cause of illness, not simply the signs. She is the author of three New York Times best selling books focused on healing our cells, and our souls. 
    Today we discuss her most recent book Women, Food, and Hormones. Yes, we talked about all of those things, but we also explored the culture of weight and wellness, and why the scale is not always a predictor of our health. She took us through the intricacies of our metabolic function, and we together questioned whether the “perfect” body we have in our head even matches the body that allows us to function at our best. As she explains: “I feel like women are stuck. They're stuck between diet culture, which I think many of us reject this idea that we're supposed to be thinner, obedient, smaller, take up less space and have these unrealistic standards for how we're supposed to look. And then we also have the fat acceptance movement. And what I like to do is to position myself in the middle where the focus is on metabolic health.” She walks us through her protocol for hormone balance, opening up detoxification pathways, and even gives us a script for talking to our doctors and regaining agency when it comes to our health. Gottfried implores us to remember that we are deserving of support at any age, and that righteous indignation when it comes to our health can move mountains. 

    Discussion of Diet Culture & Body Positivity: Approx. 5:24
    Metabolic Health: Approx. 9:40
    Importance of Testosterone for Women: Approx. 19:31
    Wearables: Approx. 23:48
    The Ketogenic Diet for Women: Approx. 28:34
    Detox: Approx. 38:42
    Discussion of Courageous Conversations with Doctors: Approx. 49:54

    Women, Food, and Hormones
    Dr. Sara Gottfried’s Website
    Dutch Hormone Test
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    • 1 hr 3 min
    The Legacy of White Feminism (Kyla Schuller)

    The Legacy of White Feminism (Kyla Schuller)

    “There's a fantasy in argument, in Lean In, or Girlboss style corporate feminism that says, once you have women in charge of your company, then your company is feminist, right. Your capitalist reforms can start and end with who has the corner offices. Right. Who's populating the executive suite. And so that's not even reforming capitalism, that's just trying to save it.”
    So says Kyla Schuller, Associate Professor of Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies and Faculty Director of the Women’s Global Health Leadership Certificate Program at Rutgers University. Today we dive into her heady new book, The Trouble with White Women: A Counterhistory of Feminism, which takes on the numerous ways in which feminism, so narrowly framed around the issues of white women, has in turn marginalized the experiences of women of color for hundreds of years. And the title has double-meaning: Because even though white feminism has been problematic, it’s also painted white women into a corner, left wondering how we got here.
    There have always been multiple kinds of feminism, Schuller says, a self-serving version dominated by white women, and an intersectional version dominated by women of color. White feminism, the mainstream feminist ideology, positions women as a redeemers, a salvific force whose mere presence in positions of power is enough to redeem that same power entirely. In sharp contrast, Schuller notes, intersectional feminism is an account of power, a place to interrogate the ways in which gender, sexuality, race, ability, and climate precarity coalesce to shape our lives. Only when we acknowledge these multiple, simultaneous identities, and come together across identity and power positions, will we form a strong enough political bloc to make enduring structural change. 

    Episode Highlights

    Against the white woman as a civilizing force…(7:14)

    Harriet Beecher Stowe/Harriet Jacobs…(12:44)

    Alice Fletcher/Zitkala-sa…(27:07)

    Margaret Sanger, a eugenic feminist…(40:02)

    Betty Friedan/Pauli Murray…(49:28)

    Mainstream feminism and the optimization of women…(52:28)

    More from Kyla Schuller  
    Kyla Schuller’s Website
    Buy her new book, The Trouble with White Women: A Counterhistory of Feminism
    Read her first book, The Biopolitics of Feeling: Race, Sex, and Science in the Nineteenth Century
    Follow Kyla on Twitter
    Dig Deeper
    Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl - Harriet Jacobs
    American Indian Stories - Zitkala-sa
    Writing by Pauli Murray
    Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower - Brittney Cooper
    Intersectionality - Brittney Cooper, The Oxford Handbook of Feminist Theory
    The Nap Ministry - Rest is Resistance
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    • 1 hr 5 min
    Finding the Line Between Savoring and Saving (Jamie Wheal)

    Finding the Line Between Savoring and Saving (Jamie Wheal)

    Jamie Wheal is the founder of the Flow Genome Project, a organization dedicated to the research and training of human performance, and most notably, he’s the author of Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex and Death in a World That’s Lost its Mind. In his fascinating book, Wheal explores the perplexing intersection at which we find ourselves, each of us torn between the desire to save the world or to savor the world. “We as a generational cohort are coming of age where we simultaneously have more awareness of life...and at the same time understand our existential precariousness,” he says, “How on earth do we hold all this at the same time?” Our wide ranging discussion takes on the heady topics of healing, believing, and belonging 
    and ends with Wheal sharing with us his ‘ten suggestions', a list of countermeasures to the fundamentalism, nihilism, and despair that threaten to swallow us whole. 

    Episode Highlights

    To save the world or to savor the world…3:09

    Nihilism, suspicion and our meaning crisis…6:48

    Reclaiming our authority, healthy tribalism, and the ten suggestions…30:40

    More from Jamie Wheal
    Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex and Death in a World That's Lost Its Mind
    Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work
    Jamie's Flow Genome Project - The Official Source for Peak Performance and Culture
    Follow Jamie on Instagram

    Dig Deeper
    The Dark Triad traits predict authoritarian political correctness and alt-right attitudes - Moss, O'Connor - Queensland University of Technology
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    • 1 hr 6 min
    Calling In the Call-Out Culture (Loretta Ross)

    Calling In the Call-Out Culture (Loretta Ross)

    “Do you want to continue to live out the patterns of your childhood? Or do you want to make different choices? Are you programmed or are you self-determining?” So says Loretta Ross, Professor at Smith College in the Program for the Study of Women and Gender, a founder of reproductive justice theory, and an expert on feminism, racism, and human rights. Loretta has co-written three books on reproductive justice and is the author of the forthcoming book, Calling In the Calling Out Culture. Loretta has been a leader in the human rights movement for decades—she worked with Reverend C.T. Vivian, one of Martin Luther King’s right hands, to rehabilitate former members of hate groups. As a rape and incest survivor herself, she taught Black feminism to incarcerated rapists. She has learned, throughout her career, to lift the hood on peoples’ lived experiences—the identity they project to the world—and determine, through courageous conversation, where their humanity lies, and where their values overlap. She believes with a certain fierceness that we have far more in common with each other—across the entire political spectrum—than not. In recent years, she has become a vocal opponent of cancel culture—ironically, people have attempted to cancel her for this—because, as she explains, she’s interested in being part of a movement and not a cult. She believes that political purity and the policing of other allies is...the opposite of helpful. And that in the process of building coalitions for sweeping social change and evolution, we alienate and lose people who would otherwise want the very same things as us.
    Today, she gives us a crash course in the practice of calling in - an alternative to calling out, or publicly shaming those whose behavior or beliefs we deem unacceptable. In a culture devoid of empathy and grace, Ross implores us to offer people a chance to change, to give them the opportunity to be as good on the outside as they think they are on the inside. For Ross, recognizing that how we do the work is just as important as the work we do, gives us the incredible opportunity to bring more people in, building the power base of the social justice movement. When we choose to use calling in practices, she says, we choose them because of who we are, not because of who the other person is, and when we affirm the humanity of others, we affirm our own humanity in turn. 

    Identifying your circles of influence…(8:31)

    The Uncle Frank strategy…(21:14) 

    Programming vs. self-determining…(27:29)

    Guidelines for the creation of a calling-in environment…(42:15)

    Loretta Ross’ Website
    Preorder her book, Calling in the Calling Out Culture, by joining her mailing list
    Take the online course: Calling In the Calling Out Culture in the Age of Trump
    Follow Loretta on Twitter 

    Undivided Rights: Women of Color Organizing for Reproductive Justice
    Reproductive Justice: an Introduction
    Radical Reproductive Justice: Foundations, Theory, Practice, Critique
    Reproductive Justice as Intersectional Feminist Activism
    I’m a Black Feminist. I Think Call-Out Culture Is Toxic. - Loretta Ross, NYT Op-Ed, August 2019
    Speaking Up Without Tearing Down - Loretta Ross, Spring 2019
    What if Instead of Calling People Out, We Called Them In? - Jessica Bennett, NY Times, November 2020
    Up From Hatred - Michael D'Antonio, LA Times, August 1997
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    • 55 min
    Building the House of Knowledge (Joy Harjo)

    Building the House of Knowledge (Joy Harjo)

    “Humanity is messy, each of us starts with ourselves, it's horribly messy and then multiply that times millions. And that's an incredible, lovely mess.” So says Joy Harjo, the 23rd United States Poet Laureate, and the first Native American to hold that post. She is the author of nine books of poetry, several plays, and childrens books, and two memoirs—and is an internationally renowned performer and writer of the Muscogee nation, with an innumerable number of prizes and fellowships at her back. Today, we sit down to discuss her second memoir, POET WARRIOR, which just came out. It is beautiful—not only the story of her life, but a vehicle for deep wisdom about language, metaphor, and ritual. We—as individuals, as communities, as nations, and as humankind—exist in a collective story field, Harjo tells us. Everyone’s story must have a place, a thread within the larger tapestry—and our story field must constantly shift to include even the most difficult stories, the ones we want to forget and repress. But, as she remarks, the hard stories provide the building blocks for our house of knowledge—we cannot evolve without them.
    To move forward, we must find ourselves in the messy story of humanity, assume our place as part of the earth in this time and in these challenges. For Harjo, it is when we turn to song, poetry, and the arts that we are able to re-root ourselves in the voice of inner truth, a knowing that has access to stories past, present, and future. And it is this wisdom of eternal knowledge that will help guide us forward—if we only stop to listen. 
    Joy is also the winner of the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize, the PEN USA Literary Award for Nonfiction, the Jackson Prize from the Poetry Society of America, the Wallace Stevens Award from the Academy of American Poets, and the William Carlos Williams Award from the Poetry Society of America. Harjo is the recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship, the New Mexico Governor’s Award for Excellence in the Arts, the Rasmuson United States Artist Fellowship. She is a chancellor of the Academy of American Poets, Board of Directors Chair of the Native Arts & Cultures Foundation, and holds a Tulsa Artist Fellowship. In 2014 she was inducted into the Oklahoma Writers Hall of Fame. 

    Finding ourselves in the messy story of humanity…(6:33)

    Returning to rituals of becoming…(36:14) 

    The story of mothers…(42:59)

    Joy Harjo's Website
    Poet Warrior: A Memoir
    More Books by Joy Harjo
    Upcoming Live Events
    Follow Joy on Twitter and on Instagram
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    • 54 min

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5
188 Ratings

188 Ratings

Sassers1978 ,


Elise is an absolutely brilliant interviewer- always armed with profound and insightful questions that lend a nuanced view into our own lives. Each episode feels like it’s own journey into an terrain you didn’t necessarily know existed,
but somehow seems to subsequently have a significant impact on our every day lives.

Gforgabriel ,

Elise is fabulously mindful, conscious and inspiring ⭐️

Started listening to Elise when she was hosting the Goop podcast and I find her voice to be incredibly soothing. She is always genuinely interested her guests and conversation flow is real. 10/10 recommend ⭐️😎

mountains and horses ,

Best interviewer! Best Guests

I’m thrilled that Elise has her own podcast! The most soulful guests and intelligent interviews. Definitely something for me to look forward to each week. I love her connection to the West and her love of horses and the environment. An important voice!

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