Waking Up Is Not Enough: Flourishing in the Human Space Polly Young-Eisendrath

In this episode, Dr. Akomalafe warns against colonizing our minds in the ways of colonialism: assuming we know exactly what to do to bring our situation under control or that we know exactly who we are. In this wide-ranging extraordinary conversation with Bayo, Polly and Mike discover new ways of thinking about body, life/death, and belonging while also finding a missing piece of the identity puzzle that truly breaks open all harmful models of “I am this.”

In this podcast, Polly and Mike have a fascinating and frank conversation with Dr. Bolte Taylor about awakening and brain functions, as well as about the role played by psychedelics in today’s world. Jill raises concerns about the potential for brain injury and schizophrenia, especially in young adult users. She and Mike speak openly about the challenges and benefits of the widespread encouragement of using psychedelics for mental health in our current era in which many US states are debating the safety of making psychedelics widely available. In many ways, this conversation exemplifies the use of Real Dialogue as all three participants speak for themselves, listen mindfully to each other, and remain curious without necessarily agreeing on any or all points in this expansive exchange about awakening, the brain, and the social and psychological challenges and benefits of psychedelics on a large scale.There is no other conversation online that is quite like this one in its range, depth, and healthy disagreement.

At the later stages of Ego Development, people naturally encounter self-evaluated standards in place of group norms and begin to feel intensive responsibility for their own achievements, self-respect and creative fulfillment. They no longer look to others for support or approval, even though they still long for it. Full-blown post-conformity gradually unfolds into coping with inner conflicts and ambivalence, respect for individuality in self and others, deep acceptanceof the unattainable, and cherishing of particularity and even irreconcilable differences. 
These types of non-conformity include complex thoughts, ideals, and feelings about themultiplicity of different selves in human social contexts.Some of these features can by perceived through conformist (and even somewhat post-conformist) lenses asbeing impulsive, manipulative, or self-promoting. In this podcast, Mike and Polly talk about these and other paradoxes involving post-conformist adult development that can be mistaken as uncaring or “off the wall.” At the “highest” stages of ego development, individuals often experience alienation and non-witnessing because there are few others who embrace the full wisdom of human awareness at later stages of development.

You may believe that conformity means compliance or popularity. In this podcast, Polly and Mike talk about conformity (in terms of Loevinger’s Stage Development) as the need to feel identified with a group in which you comply with “the rules” in order be accepted and approved of. Conformity naturally begins in the 6 – 12 year old human, but it might stick around for a lifetime because a person unknowingly subscribes to certain roles and personas, even if they seem “non-conformist” — like some kind of identity that seems rebellious but has its own rules. Yes, humans can conform to non-conformity! 
 
Conformity is based on the conviction that group differences are real (more real than individual differences) and that people in groups are all alike. America markets conformity because it promotes products and media that are “just amazing” for everyone, as though we all want the same things.

In Part 2, Mike and Polly engage with Ken Wilber, a prominent American theorist and writer in transpersonal psychology, in a deep dive into the intersections of psychedelics, spiritual awakening, Zen, and spiritual development with contemporary issues like war and 'woke' ideologies. They explore how these diverse areas tie into adult stage development, focusing particularly on the Mythic and Conformist stages. Wilber illuminates how individuals can inadvertently become ensnared in egocentrism or even narcissism during these stages, mistaking a sense of personal specialness for a recognition of their interconnectedness in a unified consciousness.
 
Ken Wilber is acclaimed for his integral theory—a comprehensive four-quadrant grid designed to embrace all human knowledge and experiences. He is particularly renowned for integrating adult stage theory into a broader understanding of critical life processes: waking up, growing up, cleaning up, and showing up. This conversation promises to offer profound insights into the complex journey of human development and consciousness.

In a candid and open discussion, Polly and Mike delve into a fascinating conversation with Ken Wilber, an acclaimed American theorist and writer. They explore the distinct concepts of “waking up” and “growing up,” unraveling why the latter is crucial in today’s world. Ken Wilber, renowned for his integral theory – a comprehensive four-quadrant grid aiming to encapsulate all human knowledge and experiences – brings a unique perspective to this dialogue. He is particularly celebrated for his work integrating adult stage theory into a broader understanding of key life processes: waking up, growing up, cleaning up, and showing up.
Amid the recent resignation of Dr. Claudine Gay as President of Harvard University, Polly, Mike, and Ken engage in a reflective discussion on the current state of freedom of expression and the complexity of thought within the realms of liberal and progressive politics in the US. They examine the nature of adult development, emphasizing the significance of self-awareness in avoiding the pitfalls of binary thinking and rigid beliefs. This conversation sheds light on how our personal growth can be hindered when we find ourselves entrenched in 'all-or-nothing' mindsets.